Date   

Re: Feature Request- 'Your Groups' menu #suggestion

Duane
 

On Mon, Jun 24, 2019 at 04:10 PM, Geoff Arnold wrote:
What we'd like is to see the Group Titles listed when you click the Your Groups dropdown.
I finally figured out what you mean.  Yes, the XXX of the email address for the group is what shows in the drop down.  On all my groups, it's the same as the Group Title, so it took me awhile to notice.  Some groups I'm on have no Title for the group/subgroups, so it couldn't be cast in stone.  Maybe show the Title if one exists or the XXX of the email address if it doesn't?

Duane


Re: Feature Request- 'Your Groups' menu #suggestion

Barry_M
 

Same as Duane.  I think you mean the topmost bar which appears irrespective of page?  Screenshot attached.  Not sure about "next to my account name" since it doesn't appear that way to me.  But, it is a dropdown and, as with others, mine shows group names rather than email addresses.  

Barry


Re: Feature Request- 'Your Groups' menu #suggestion

Geoff Arnold <geoff@...>
 

My main group and all subgroups have both an email address (XXX@MYDOMAIN) and a Group Title. (I use subgroup categories.)

If I go to main, and choose Subgroups from the sidebar, I see all of the subgroups listed . For each, I see the email (i.e. the XXX), the Group Title, and the subgroup category.

If I click the Your Groups dropdown in the title bar (next to my account name), I see a list of emails (i.e. the XXX), with "Manage my subscriptions" at the bottom of the list.

What we'd like is to see the Group Titles listed when you click the Your Groups dropdown.

-- 
  Geoff Arnold
  geoff@...



Re: Feature Request- 'Your Groups' menu #suggestion

Duane
 

On Mon, Jun 24, 2019 at 02:30 PM, Geoff Arnold wrote:
I got a strong request from several users to have the "Your Groups" dropdown show the Group Titles rather than the email address.
Mine does show the group names, not an email address.  If there are subgroups, they're shown under the main group name.  Have you got a name assigned to the groups?

Duane


Re: Feature Request- 'Your Groups' menu #suggestion

Geoff Arnold <geoff@...>
 

Can I resurrect this topic from last year? I got a strong request from several users to have the "Your Groups" dropdown show the Group Titles rather than the email address. Our domains tend to be lengthy, so people like short email names - which is fine until you have to remember which is which.

Geoff


moderated Re: Controlling rw permissions (files section)

Michael Pavan
 

I'd even go so far as to suggest that the "Owner" (or "Moderator") badge on the Home button become the user interface for this. Someone with Owner (or Moderator) role would see that say "Member" initially. But it would have a drop-down or other means to select their elevated role. This same means can be used to switch back.
I would suggest that in the left hand column where it says "Home" and the "Owner" badge, that there also be badges for "Member", and "Moderator" (if also a Mod). The active badge would be in color, the other(s) would be greyed out.

Toggling 'Role' (Owner, Member, or Moderator) would be accomplished from clicking on the desired role badge - no 'page jumping should occur, only the page view should change to that of the chosen role.

I think I like having the "Member" view as the default, but a control in Settings should also be added to set "Role View default".




-- .--- .--.


moderated Re: Pending subscription message now including location/other info

Marina
 

I am very sorry. I was looking in the wrong place.
The location was stated in the "Subscription Approval Needed" mail. I hardly take notice of those messages because I usually check my group via web.
Thank you for your patience,
Marina


moderated Re: Pending subscription message now including location/other info

Marina
 

Sorry for being so dumb, but where can I find the Location field in a pending member's message?
A member has just applied to join my group and sent a message to the group owner with a brief introduction, as required. Apparently, the message was sent by a mobile through Groups.io website.
I have checked his message both online, in the Owner's message tab, and through Gmail ("Show original"), but I haven't been able to find any Location field.

Thanks for your help,
Marina


moderated Re: Pending subscription message now including location/other info

 

J_Catlady wrote:
On Sun, Jun 23, 2019 at 02:56 PM, Shal Farley wrote:
an individual opt-in/out during the join/apply flow.
That would really defeat the purpose. Plus, if someone opted out I would not approve their membership.
Exactly what I thought. This isn't (or shouldn't be) a choice to give or not this information to the mods. It would then be too easy to a spammer or any person not well intentioned to simple don't give this info and still be able to join the group.

Cheers,
Marcio AKA Starboy

Sent from a galaxy far, far away.


moderated Re: Pending subscription message now including location/other info

 

On Sun, Jun 23, 2019 at 02:56 PM, Shal Farley wrote:
an individual opt-in/out during the join/apply flow.
That would really defeat the purpose. Plus, if someone opted out I would not approve their membership.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Pending subscription message now including location/other info

 

Helen,

I find this grossly intrusive. ... For certain groups (e.g. certain
heath issues), this could even put people off joining.
I see your point, much as I appreciate having that info in other types of groups.

Any way to turn this intrusive monitoring off please?
I can think of two ways of handling it: a group level control or an individual opt-in/out during the join/apply flow.

If it must be on, it should be made clear to applicants that this
information is being sent to group mods.
As a group level control (which is what I think you are seeking) its status should at the very least be included in the home-page list of Group Settings. Whether that is prominent enough or not I'm not certain.

I think a group like your example would use some language in its group Description to reinforce the reassurance that the option is off. For groups that have the option on, I don't expect them to use their Description for scary warnings. Nor am I really enthusiastic about having a scary disclaimer around the Join/Apply button on their home pages.

However, as things stand, once they've clicked that button the information has been delivered to the mods. So as much as I detest it, the best option might be to have an intervening page (or pop-up) when a user clicks that button.

As an individual control, such a notification page (or pop-up) could include Yes and No buttons to make an individual opt-in or opt-out of sending this info to the mods.

Shal












On 2019-06-22 8:25 AM, Helen wrote:
I find this grossly intrusive. I can see where people are to the nearest small town, which may be helpful for local associations, but which for my international groups is frankly irrelevant. And their OS is their business, not mine. For certain groups (e.g. certain heath issues), this could even put people off joining.
I vet people via the requirement to respond to a questionnaire, which works just fine. Any way to turn this intrusive monitoring off please?
If it must be on, it should be made clear to applicants that this information is being sent to group mods.
Helen


moderated Re: Controlling rw permissions (files section)

Gerald Boutin <groupsio@...>
 

I have a test group and full control there to try things so I was able to "mostly" replicate what Shal has suggested.

By the way, I am not unbiased on this subject. I believe that Shal has the correct answer as to what the "elegant solution" is.

This is what I was able to try.

Owner: Open primary browser window logged onto a group that I am Owner of.
Moderator: Open a second browser and logon with a Moderator account to that group.
Owner: Change the Moderator account to "Member" and Save
Moderator: Refresh browser. Note that the Home Mod badge has disappeared. We are now viewing as a normal member.
Owner: Change the Moderator account to "Moderator". This is where some magic has to be added by Mark. The Moderator permissions need to be remembered and returned when switching back. For testing, do this manually and then Save.
Moderator: Refresh browser. All previous Moderator functions are back to working as usual.

This seems to do the job. It also proves that the Moderator does not need to log off and back on for this functionality to work.

What I could not do, of course, was to add Shal's drop-down addition to the Home button. To address Chris's point about possible confusion, I suggest that the Home button be made a bit smarter in that when it goes into downgraded Moderator mode, the badge should change to a grayed out Mod badge instead of removing the badge altogether. The drop-down will also need the existing "Home" link as one option, so a toggle wouldn't be sufficient. Hopefully, Mark can force a browser refresh here when a change is made/

I am concerned that there may be issues making this work for an Owner account, but maybe I am just overly pessimistic.

--
Gerald


moderated Re: Controlling rw permissions (files section)

Chris Jones
 

On Sun, Jun 23, 2019 at 05:17 AM, Shal Farley wrote:
I'd even go so far as to suggest that the "Owner" (or "Moderator") badge on the Home button become the user interface for this. Someone with Owner (or Moderator) role would see that say "Member" initially.
(My underlining)

Although the idea of using that tab as a toggle of some sort clearly has merit, as described above it rather violates the Principle of Least Astonishment.

Membership of beta is a minority interest amongst owners and moderators - just look at the numbers - and not all may bother to read "Updates" so IMHO the default view should be their normal operating status.

Chris


moderated Re: Controlling rw permissions (files section)

 

Dano,

If I have to jump out to another page to flip that switch and then
come back, I am much less likely to see differences that I should
notice.
I agree.

Which is exactly why I suggested a location that is visible on every page of a group.

Another problem in this discussion is that someone dragged in some
jargon and not everyone knows exactly what it means.
I think your objection is spurious; Jonathan adequately explained what the terminology implied. Hopefully my post would help there too. I didn't rely on the reader knowing what sudo does, I explained my proposal without jargon.

Shal


moderated Re: Controlling rw permissions (files section)

 

J noted, "I feel like this idea has gotten out of control."

I understand your sentiment, J. But I also have faith that Mark will winnow the grain from the chaff and, if he finds merit in the idea, will use our thoughts to better groups.io. He may well find a much more elegant solution than any of us can imagine.

Dano


moderated Re: Controlling rw permissions (files section)

 

Agree with Dano. I would hate, hate, hate to have to switch to “mod view” when I want to act as a moderator in my own group, which is mainly what I do. It’s already bad enough that I have to click on “activity” to see the mod functions.

I feel like this idea has gotten out of control.

On Jun 22, 2019, at 10:23 PM, D R Stinson <dano@mt.net> wrote:

Shal -
I would like to defend the other direction, switching to the member view briefly without leaving the page. Allow me to explain.

Everyone has a different style of learning and functioning. Some people are readers and need to see the words in print, while others are visual and need to see the actions take place with the flip of a switch. Others are easily distractible by things along the way in changing pages. If I have to jump out to another page to flip that switch and then come back, I am much less likely to see differences that I should notice. And then going through the log-off/log-on routine again further breaks my train of thought.

I would much rather see the owner/moderator view as default, as that often prompts me to actions I need to deal with. Having to go to another page to change the view and then come back is no better than having to do the log-off/log-on routine and then turn around and do it again just to get back to what I was working on. It would seem that having the owner/moderator icon change on the members page seem like an quick way to really confuse members.

I think the idea of who owns the files is a red herring to this discussion. I want to know what an ordinary user might see. I already know members can edit and remove their own files. I already have too many cases where the member was lost in the transfer or left the group, and as group owner I am left as the default owner. But what is an ordinary member (or "mere mortal" as jslcanuck referred to it) seeing?

Another problem in this discussion is that someone dragged in some jargon and not everyone knows exactly what it means. I refer to: "logging in and working as root", "su'ing", "we should sudo instead", and "mod-do". If you want to drive away the more average user's input, using technical terms will certainly help that happen. Fortunately I believe, after working with groups for all these years, Mark understands the value of making things more useful for the common user.

This is my viewpoint, and I offer it for Mark's consideration.

Dano

----- Original Message -----
From: Shal Farley

Jonathan,

Makes me wonder now whether there should be a mod-do, or a way of
operating as a normal user and only stepping up to mod privileges when
needed.
Interesting.

I think I may like this better than the usual "view as member" approach.
For one thing it implicitly resolves the "which member" question: you.

It reverses the default view, and in that way reinforces a
member-centric view of the group, something that moderators sometimes
struggle with understanding.

I'd even go so far as to suggest that the "Owner" (or "Moderator") badge
on the Home button become the user interface for this. Someone with
Owner (or Moderator) role would see that say "Member" initially. But it
would have a drop-down or other means to select their elevated role.
This same means can be used to switch back.

Shal


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Controlling rw permissions (files section)

 

Shal -
I would like to defend the other direction, switching to the member view briefly without leaving the page. Allow me to explain.

Everyone has a different style of learning and functioning. Some people are readers and need to see the words in print, while others are visual and need to see the actions take place with the flip of a switch. Others are easily distractible by things along the way in changing pages. If I have to jump out to another page to flip that switch and then come back, I am much less likely to see differences that I should notice. And then going through the log-off/log-on routine again further breaks my train of thought.

I would much rather see the owner/moderator view as default, as that often prompts me to actions I need to deal with. Having to go to another page to change the view and then come back is no better than having to do the log-off/log-on routine and then turn around and do it again just to get back to what I was working on. It would seem that having the owner/moderator icon change on the members page seem like an quick way to really confuse members.

I think the idea of who owns the files is a red herring to this discussion. I want to know what an ordinary user might see. I already know members can edit and remove their own files. I already have too many cases where the member was lost in the transfer or left the group, and as group owner I am left as the default owner. But what is an ordinary member (or "mere mortal" as jslcanuck referred to it) seeing?

Another problem in this discussion is that someone dragged in some jargon and not everyone knows exactly what it means. I refer to: "logging in and working as root", "su'ing", "we should sudo instead", and "mod-do". If you want to drive away the more average user's input, using technical terms will certainly help that happen. Fortunately I believe, after working with groups for all these years, Mark understands the value of making things more useful for the common user.

This is my viewpoint, and I offer it for Mark's consideration.

Dano

----- Original Message -----
From: Shal Farley

Jonathan,

Makes me wonder now whether there should be a mod-do, or a way of
operating as a normal user and only stepping up to mod privileges when
needed.
Interesting.

I think I may like this better than the usual "view as member" approach.
For one thing it implicitly resolves the "which member" question: you.

It reverses the default view, and in that way reinforces a
member-centric view of the group, something that moderators sometimes
struggle with understanding.

I'd even go so far as to suggest that the "Owner" (or "Moderator") badge
on the Home button become the user interface for this. Someone with
Owner (or Moderator) role would see that say "Member" initially. But it
would have a drop-down or other means to select their elevated role.
This same means can be used to switch back.

Shal


moderated Re: Controlling rw permissions (files section)

 

Jonathan,

Makes me wonder now whether there should be a mod-do, or a way of
operating as a normal user and only stepping up to mod privileges when
needed.
Interesting.

I think I may like this better than the usual "view as member" approach. For one thing it implicitly resolves the "which member" question: you.

It reverses the default view, and in that way reinforces a member-centric view of the group, something that moderators sometimes struggle with understanding.

I'd even go so far as to suggest that the "Owner" (or "Moderator") badge on the Home button become the user interface for this. Someone with Owner (or Moderator) role would see that say "Member" initially. But it would have a drop-down or other means to select their elevated role. This same means can be used to switch back.

Shal


moderated Re: Pending subscription message now including location/other info

 

On Sat, Jun 22, 2019 at 06:01 PM, Leeni wrote:
it would be more beneficial to an owner to have that ISP show up on the pending application and then also after the member joins on the membership list for reference.
Agreed. The current access method is of very limited usefulness.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Pending subscription message now including location/other info

 

Ok, I found it in the email. (Mark, you can delete my other pending message about not being able to find it.:-)
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

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