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moderated Re: fix toggling of alpha column-order vs which column ordered by #suggestion

 

On Fri, Jun 21, 2019 at 01:50 AM, Andy W wrote:
As it is now, Joined/Applied has mysteriously switched to oldest first.
I don't see this. If I go to a member list, the default order is the most recent join/applied entries at the top of the list.
Correct. The date column is ordered by reverse chrono.
 
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J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: fix toggling of alpha column-order vs which column ordered by #suggestion

 

On Fri, Jun 21, 2019 at 06:17 AM, Gerald Boutin wrote:
To summarize further, one click to change to sort of a different column. Further clicks on the active column will toggle the sort direction for that column, and hence the table as well.
Exactly. And with the change of column, you would use *that column's* default sort order - i.e.: reverse only for the date ("Joined") column, but chrono (not reverse chrono) for the alpha columns.
 
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J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: fix toggling of alpha column-order vs which column ordered by #suggestion

Gerald Boutin <groupsio@...>
 

On Fri, Jun 21, 2019 at 05:50 AM, Andy W wrote:
Hi Shal,

On Fri, Jun 21, 2019 at 05:10 AM, Shal Farley wrote:
As it is now, Joined/Applied has mysteriously switched to oldest first.
I don't see this. If I go to a member list, the default order is the most recent join/applied entries at the top of the list.
What I want is for each column to retain its own direction, independent of changing the direction of any other other column.
Agreed.  If I click the Display Name, Email or Delivery column headings, the list is sorted in reverse alpha (Z-A). All we have asked for is that to be the other way around (A-Z) to start with and if the column heading is clicked for a second time, it goes Z-A.

Regards,
Andy
I agree with what Shal said about each column remembering its own direction. That resolves the issue of the "to start with" quandary. It will be whatever you left it at last. What it starts out at is immaterial.

To summarize further, one click to change to sort of a different column. Further clicks on the active column will toggle the sort direction for that column, and hence the table as well.

Life gets more complicated depending on how many sub-levels one wants to incorporate for breaking ties in the primary column. Ideally, it might be all columns with the last used column being the secondary key and next last used column, the next key and so on. In reality, probably one sub-column sub-level should be enough.
 
--
Gerald


moderated Re: fix toggling of alpha column-order vs which column ordered by #suggestion

Andy Wedge
 

Hi Shal,

On Fri, Jun 21, 2019 at 05:10 AM, Shal Farley wrote:
As it is now, Joined/Applied has mysteriously switched to oldest first.
I don't see this. If I go to a member list, the default order is the most recent join/applied entries at the top of the list.
What I want is for each column to retain its own direction, independent of changing the direction of any other other column.
Agreed.  If I click the Display Name, Email or Delivery column headings, the list is sorted in reverse alpha (Z-A). All we have asked for is that to be the other way around (A-Z) to start with and if the column heading is clicked for a second time, it goes Z-A.

Regards,
Andy


moderated Re: fix toggling of alpha column-order vs which column ordered by #suggestion

 

Mark,

I go to the Members page. It defaults to sorted by Joined, most recent
first. I then click on any other column header. And it retains the
existing sort direction. ... Is that not what you asked for?
No. At least, it is not what I would want.

That is,

1) starting with Joined/Applied most recent first,
2) I click Email and change it to alphabetical,
3) I click back to Joined/Applied.

As it is now, Joined/Applied has mysteriously switched to oldest first. (Ok, not mysterious: you copied the direction from the email column.) I think it is a violation of least astonishment - in what way is a member's Joined/Applied date connected to his/her email address? Why would changing the order of one change the order of the other?

What I want is for each column to retain its own direction, independent of changing the direction of any other other column.

Shal


moderated Re: Web-only group #suggestion

 

I really didn't want to go the build a web site route if I didn't have to (been there, done that) as so many people are already comfortable with this format but it looks like that's what I'll be doing. 
Nice summary - thank you.

Patti in AZ


moderated Re: fix toggling of alpha column-order vs which column ordered by #suggestion

 

On Thu, Jun 20, 2019 at 01:32 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
Not what we want.
As in "royal we" :-)
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: fix toggling of alpha column-order vs which column ordered by #suggestion

 

On Thu, Jun 20, 2019 at 01:22 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
I then click on any other column header. And it retains the existing sort direction.
Mark,

If by "existing sort direction" you mean the sort direction of "Joined," then that's probably the problem, because that's reverse chrono order, not chrono. I think that by default, we want the sort to be by reverse chrono order for Joined, but by alpha (not reverse alpha) order for Display Name and Email.

The bottom line is that currently, if you actually do this (not just look at the code), you'll see that when you actually click on "any other column," the sort comes up reverse. Not what we want.

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: fix toggling of alpha column-order vs which column ordered by #suggestion

 

On Thu, Jun 20, 2019 at 12:50 PM J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:
Same with display name. Does not seem fixed. :-(

So I guess I don't understand. I go to the Members page. It defaults to sorted by Joined, most recent first. I then click on any other column header. And it retains the existing sort direction. I click the column again to switch sort direction. Then I click another column. It keeps the existing sort direction. Is that not what you asked for?

Thanks,
Mark 


moderated Re: include "direct added" in member activity #suggestion

Bruce Bowman
 

On Thu, Jun 20, 2019 at 02:15 PM, Andy W wrote:
I believe this is referring to the member's activity log.  If you look in there, there is no reference to being added.
Ah, I see. Yes, it certainly seems like it should be there, too. Sorry for being slow on the uptake.

Bruce


moderated Re: fix toggling of alpha column-order vs which column ordered by #suggestion

 

Same with display name. Does not seem fixed. :-(
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Web-only group #suggestion

Marv Waschke
 

Way back, I suggested a "flying lawnmower" analogy. The discussion has ranged so widely, I'm not sure what this is, but I will go back and say that a simple implementation may be useful for some groups. This is what I think has been proposed:
  • An owner/moderator option for an entire group.
  • Owner/moderator would have access to email addresses, but not members would not.
  • Members would have the same options as now: no-email, special only, digest, full email.
  • On the web or in reflected emails, the address of the originator would not appear. Instead a "no-reply" dummy address would be inserted. My guess is that this would not be difficult to implement.
  • No "Private" button on web replies.
  • An official recorded "handle" would not be strictly necessary; members can always put their chosen handle in the body of the message, on the other hand a "Display name" that could be left blank would be okay.
The effect of this implementation would not be a strictly anonymous group since the owner/moderator would know the member's identity, or at least email address, but identities and private access would not be shared among the members. I can see a value for this type of group. The health group example is a good one. However, I have to point out that it is easy to set up a web site, with something like WordPress, that would have these characteristics, so I don't have a crying need for a groups.io implementation. But I have no objection either, especially if it brings in a few premium groups.
Best, Marv (his handle)


moderated Email Privacy

 

I see the thread I replied to is old, lengthy and became argumentative so thought it best to start fresh.
I’ve just spent several days working with others to set up a health-oriented education/discussion/support group only to realize that the email feeds don’t scrub individuals’ email addresses. Otherwise the functionality is exactly what we need.  
If addresses can’t be scrubbed from the email feeds, then a no-email option would work well. Most similar (health) groups are web based only and people often join for short periods of time for information and support then move on - there’s no need for them to have access to everyone else’s address. Many of these users are not sophisticated enough to set up an alternate email or even realize they could be exposed. If two unknowingly related people join the.same medical condition group, they might not want each other to know for personal, work related or legal reasons. Comments were made in the earlier thread that a web only option or scrubbing email addresses would be “exclusionary”.  What is “exclusionary” is that not allowing email privacy excludes people with medical conditions from participating in an educational science and experience based support group on groups.io. 
It can’t be that difficult to provide code to have the system allow  email replies without posting addresses (to take care of those who can’t/won’t read on the web) and to have “reply to sender” or PM’s not showing the recipient’s name - giving the recipient the opportunity to reply directly and reveal their address only if they wish to. 
I totally get those who read a post and want to contact the poster directly for whatever reason. But there are situations when it can be wise to allow it to be the recipient’s choice to respond or not when someone has reached out to them and not have their email end up in the sender’s contact list. (Do you accept every Facebook friend request.)
When unwanted PM is received and is reported, a Moderator/owner can ban the sender. But I have seen someone come in despite moderation and scrape email addresses from digests then use these to mount an ongoing advertising campaign. If this were to occur with a health related group (not to say web-only is immune to break ins) it could be problematic with possible legal implications. 
While I understand that groups.io might not be able to be all things to all people, making these what appear to be fairly easy changes would open groups.io to a additional genre of user groups (which anyone is free *not* to join) without affecting any current functionality. 

Thank you.

Patti in AZ


moderated Option to send existing calendar invitations to new group members?

 

Hi,

I was looking for this, and maybe it exists (and I haven't found it) or maybe it's a feature request.

When a new user is added, is it possible for them to get an invitation for all future events?  Likewise, is it possible to send a cancellation notice when a user is unsubscribed?

I have a group that meets regularly, but which has changing membership.  I can sort of fake this by creating a repeating meeting and sending a reminder a week in advance, but it would be really helpful (and less error prone) if the meeting invites were sent automatically.

Thanks for the consideration!
Brian

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Brian Warner
The Linux Foundation
+1 724 301-6171


moderated Re: fix toggling of alpha column-order vs which column ordered by #suggestion

Andy Wedge
 

On Thu, Jun 20, 2019 at 06:21 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
This particular mild PITA has now been fixed. :-)
If I click in the email address header, it's still sorted in reverse alpha to start with.

Andy


moderated Re: fix toggling of alpha column-order vs which column ordered by #suggestion

 

Yay! Thanks, Mark. 😊


On Jun 20, 2019, at 10:21 AM, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:

On Fri, Jun 14, 2019 at 7:42 AM J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:
When viewing the members list, the default display order is date joined. Say you want to order by email address. You click on the email column heading, but what happens is that you get a display in reverse alpha order of email address, and have to click on that column a second time to see it in alpha order. This is a mild PITA (and also vaguely disconcerting - it's not what you expect).

This particular mild PITA has now been fixed. :-)

Thanks,
Mark 

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: include "direct added" in member activity #suggestion

 

Exactly right. The member activity log is explicitly the issue here.


On Jun 20, 2019, at 11:15 AM, Andy W <andy_wedge@...> wrote:

Bruce,

On Thu, Jun 20, 2019 at 07:12 PM, Bruce Bowman wrote:
I just checked our group's activity log and each Direct Add
I believe this is referring to the member's activity log.  If you look in there, there is no reference to being added.

Andy

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: include "direct added" in member activity #suggestion

Andy Wedge
 

Bruce,

On Thu, Jun 20, 2019 at 07:12 PM, Bruce Bowman wrote:
I just checked our group's activity log and each Direct Add
I believe this is referring to the member's activity log.  If you look in there, there is no reference to being added.

Andy


moderated Re: include "direct added" in member activity #suggestion

Bruce Bowman
 

On Sun, Jun 16, 2019 at 03:19 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
I can't remember whether this came up before: since moderator actions on a membership of having approved or rejected a membership are included in the member's activity history, it seems an anomaly that having been direct added is not included as well.
J -- I just checked our group's activity log and each Direct Add creates an entry along these lines:

"Moderator name <email address> added [new member's email address] with message "This email signifies that you have been added to the collaboration site for the Indiana Astronomical Society at groups.io. IAS-INDY is a etc...

It doesn't say "direct added," but it does say "added." The same thing happens when Direct Adding someone to a subgroup...with or without a corresponding Member Notice.

Just struggling a little to understand the scope of the proposal.

Regards,
Bruce


moderated Re: fix toggling of alpha column-order vs which column ordered by #suggestion

 

On Fri, Jun 14, 2019 at 7:42 AM J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:
When viewing the members list, the default display order is date joined. Say you want to order by email address. You click on the email column heading, but what happens is that you get a display in reverse alpha order of email address, and have to click on that column a second time to see it in alpha order. This is a mild PITA (and also vaguely disconcerting - it's not what you expect).

This particular mild PITA has now been fixed. :-)

Thanks,
Mark