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moderated Re: Group home page redesign

 

On Sat, Jun 15, 2019 at 10:52 AM, D R Stinson wrote:
It never occurred to me that owners and moderators can't see the same home page as others when they are logged in. Indeed, that does seem to disappear for the group I deleted all the hashtags from, after I sign out of groups.io.
Now *I* am confused. I was referring to the hashtag section disappearing when all hashtags are removed, in the *new* design. I didn't realize this was already the case in the current design, nor did I think non-members could see any hashtags at all. Are you sure your non-member view doesn't see hashtags on the home page simply because non-members don't see them anyway?
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Group home page redesign

 

On Fri, Jun 14, 2019 at 11:16 PM, D R Stinson wrote:
at least make it disappear if there are none
I think Mark implied that was the case, when he suggested that if I don't want to see hashtags on my group's home page, I could just delete all hashtags. We unfortunately can't test this out without a temporary per-group trial page for the new design.
--
J

Thanks for that prompt, J. It never occurred to me that owners and moderators can't see the same home page as others when they are logged in. Indeed, that does seem to disappear for the group I deleted all the hashtags from, after I sign out of groups.io.

In replying to this I happened across Mark's post of 2018-10-19 (#18799) regarding replies to hashtags, and I must say, I'm glad we don't use them. We'd have some members so confused!

Dano


moderated Re: Group home page redesign

 

On Fri, Jun 14, 2019 at 11:16 PM, D R Stinson wrote:
at least make it disappear if there are none
I think Mark implied that was the case, when he suggested that if I don't want to see hashtags on my group's home page, I could just delete all hashtags. We unfortunately can't test this out without a temporary per-group trial page for the new design.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Group home page redesign

KWKloeber
 


 
On my groups we don't use hashtags.
Dano
Try to even get them to use Topics intelligently is a  challenge for which I’ve officially thrown in the towel. I’m not sure the language (Swahheily?) to use for “start a fresh email with a new subject “
 I digress. 

** never-ending and meaningless option poll developing again.”
How about a one-line # and then a drop-down option? If they are critical to your group, instruct them. Or put it in the group info. Would that suffice as a compromise. 


moderated Re: Group home page redesign

KWKloeber
 

Or “Most-recent Activity”
Or ”Most-used Topics”
Or...?


moderated Re: Group home page redesign

KWKloeber
 

What are ”Active Topics”?
All else are inactive, ie locked?

or is it attempting to present “Most-recent Topics”?


moderated Re: Group home page redesign

 

> Different groups will use hashtags to different extents
> ranging from "not at all" to "extensively"; OK so the "not
> at alls" will have no hashtags visible, but the "sparinglys"
> will.
 
On my groups we don't use hashtags. Those that might show up are remnants from old subject lines from posts on Y!, and I've gone back through most of those posts to substitute something in place of octothorpes in the old subject lines. Yet the heading of Top Hashtags shows up, even though there's nothing under them.
 
I would suggest that if Top Hashtags can't be made optional, at least make it disappear if there are none.
 
Dano


moderated Re: Group home page redesign

 

On Fri, Jun 14, 2019 at 02:38 PM, Bob Bellizzi wrote:
Like J, we only use them for calendar and special notices and don't allow regular members to use hashtags.
I actually do use hashtags for other than calendar and special notices. (I actually don't even use them for the calendar because I don't use the calendar.) They simply are not very important in my group. I would not remove them from the home page, but I don't want them to stand out as a big deal there, either. Like Duane, I'd like the option to remove the hashtag section from the home page, but it's not a biggie for me. As far as I'm concerned, as long as the group description gets its proper due on the home page, hashtags are entitled to their crumbs. :)
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Group home page redesign

Bob Bellizzi
 

Why even have hashtags info on the home page?  Members seldom go the the home page after joining.
Like J, we only use them for calendar and special notices and don't allow regular members to use hashtags.
The space taken up on the home page is wasted on Newbies who likely will puzzle wondering what a hashtag is.

--

Bob Bellizzi


moderated Re: fix toggling of alpha column-order vs which column ordered by #suggestion

 

Yes, for all columns. It was a general request with a specific example.


On Jun 14, 2019, at 11:34 AM, Andy W <andy_wedge@...> wrote:

On Fri, Jun 14, 2019 at 03:42 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
You click on the email column heading, but what happens is that you get a display in reverse alpha order of email address, and have to click on that column a second time to see it in alpha order.
The same appears to be true for the Display Name column too.

Andy

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Rethinking the #cal- hashtags

Maria
 

On Fri, Jun 14, 2019 at 12:47 AM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
 
It's weird when I set up a #downtime notice using the calendar, like I just did, and it sends out a message tagged #cal-invite. I'm not inviting you to the downtime (Hey, downtime slumber party!). It feels like something like #cal-event would be better in that situation. Would it be better in every situation? Should I rename #cal-invite to #cal-event, or maybe something else?
 
Can it just be #event? Why does it even need to have cal in it?

#event
#eventreminder
#Upcomingevents ( for the summary)
#eventnotice

I think the #cal part feels too much like an admin thing and less user friendly.

Like you said Mark, some events in the calendar are not things members are invited to . They are just notes on the calendar or just stuff that's happening.

Another idea is to give group admins the ability to define categories of events for group calendars so when we set-up events we can define what kind of event it is and that dictates the kind of hashtag it generates. For example:

PTAMeetings
Assemblies
SLTMeeting
Orientation
Protests
Marches
Trainingsessions

when admins / members set up events they'd select what kind from a hashtag dropdown and that would then attach itself as it does to posts - to the event and it would make the hashtag filter even more useful because you could go straight to certain kinds of events you are looking for.

Maria






moderated Re: fix toggling of alpha column-order vs which column ordered by #suggestion

Andy Wedge
 

On Fri, Jun 14, 2019 at 03:42 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
You click on the email column heading, but what happens is that you get a display in reverse alpha order of email address, and have to click on that column a second time to see it in alpha order.
The same appears to be true for the Display Name column too.

Andy


moderated Re: Group home page redesign

Maria
 

I am totally in favor of redesigning the group home page. I think the fact that most of us here agreed that the default start page for a group member to land on ought to be the messages page (see past topics) is a clear indication that the home page has been stagnating and its potential not explored and overlooked.

I like that the redesign is trying to be helpful to new members - new groups.io users and give them an overview of the group activity and areas, and from there you should be able to then decide what section of the group to navigate to. For those groups with subgroups and where members may be in a few subgroups, an overview is even more important. I'd agree that a more dynamic, less static home page is better. Also, we really need to deal with the fact that so many users access groups.io via mobile devices on small screens, so to have a home page that is all text is a bad idea and doesn't remotely look modern. Even media and newspapers break it up with white space and different elements.

The page just needs some design tweaks so that it feels more balanced in terms of visual elements.
But it's in the right direction.
Much better.

Maria


moderated Re: Rethinking the #cal- hashtags

Sarah k Alawami
 

I agree. If I'm going to be gone and want to let my list members know, or if my website is going to be down I'm also not inviting them to my vacation or my down website. Lol!

The slashes, I have to think about as although it kind of makes sense from a hierarchical point of view it would be something I would have to get used to.

Sarah Alawami, owner of TFFP. . For more info go to our website. This is also our libsyn page as well.
For stuff we sell, mac training materials and  tutorials go here.
and for hosting options go here
to subscribe to the feed click here

Our telegram channel is also a good place for an announce only in regard to podcasts, contests, etc.

Finally, to become a patron and help support the podcast go here

On 13 Jun 2019, at 21:50, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi Mark,

In regards to renaming #CalInvite: I’m in favor of renaming it to #CalEvent.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: main@beta.groups.io <main@beta.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mark Fletcher
Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2019 9:47 PM
To: beta@groups.io
Subject: [beta] Rethinking the #cal- hashtags

 

Hi All,

 

I'm pondering a couple things about the calendar hashtags and would like your input.

 

First, here is a list of the hashtags used by the calendar, and what messages they correspond to:

 

#cal-invite - when an event is created or updated, the message contains an .ics attachment
#cal-notice - when an event happens
#cal-reminder - reminder of an upcoming event
#cal-summary - weekly/monthly summary of upcoming events

 

It's weird when I set up a #downtime notice using the calendar, like I just did, and it sends out a message tagged #cal-invite. I'm not inviting you to the downtime (Hey, downtime slumber party!). It feels like something like #cal-event would be better in that situation. Would it be better in every situation? Should I rename #cal-invite to #cal-event, or maybe something else?

 

Also, in the various hashtag displays, like the new Hashtags dropdown filter on Messages, it feels weird to show all these #cal hashtags. It feels redundant and confusing. What if there was a way to 'collapse' these related hashtags in those displays? Like create collections of hashtags; select the collection and all messages from all those hashtags would be displayed? This would not affect muting/following hashtags in any way. 

 

If we go with collections, I was thinking how to make it as easy as possible. My first thought was to use the dash that these hashtags have. All hashtags that begin with the same prefix before a dash would be considered part of the same collection (in this case, the #cal collection). But then I looked and we have ~3900 non-cal-based hashtags in the system that have dashes. So I don't think a dash would be a good delimiter. We could go with a character not currently used for hashtags, like a slash ( / ). So, the cal hashtags would be #cal/event, #cal/notice, #cal/reminder, #cal/summary. You could end up with entire hierarchies of hashtags, although to what end I do not know. How do you like the 'look' of hashtags with slashes in them?

 

Finally, if we go with collections, do we stick with #cal as the prefix? 

 

Your thoughts are appreciated.

 

Thanks,

Mark


moderated Re: Group home page redesign

Jean Bennett
 

I would respectfully disagree with reducing the cover photo size (unless it can be optional at the group level). We use the cover photo as a masthead to display our art and change it every two weeks for the benefit of our members. 

Jean


moderated Re: Group home page redesign

Bruce Bowman
 

More than half of page hits are now on mobile devices these days. I do understand the desire to make the group home page more mobile-friendly, and I've been doing some similar work on the sites that I webmaster. Making your site "look good" on screen widths that can vary between 320 and 1920px and up is a real challenge (understatement of the year).

As I look at the current home page layout, the hashtag links are too close together, and impossible to tap individually. Something needs to be done here. Spacing them out horizontally makes sense, but they do kinda take over the page on a desktop, especially for those groups that really don't use them for anything.

I support the suggestion to have group options that makes select sections disappear from the home page entirely. Failing that, collapse/expand buttons -- with settings perhaps remembered via a cookie -- would enable the user to customize their own experience with the site.

Regards,
Bruce


moderated Re: Group home page redesign

Ellen Moody
 

I run two groups which read books together. Each Friday I post where we are in the schedule. We also have a plan for future books on one of this lists. I reproduce the URL to the home page each Friday to help people situate themselves so I go over there at least once a week.

Ellen

On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 8:32 PM Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:
Hi Duane,

On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 4:28 PM Duane <txpigeon@...> wrote:

At the very least, I'd like to see all of the 'new' items moved to the bottom (below Group Email Addresses) and the description restored to full view.  Optimally for me, and others based on their comments on GMF, I'd be able to turn all of this off for my groups.  All of the information I see, except for Top Hashtags (which I'd rather not have anyway), is on the Feed page and I'd rather not have it cluttering the Home page.

Out of curiosity, do you regularly look at your group home page? And if so, why? I think of the group home pages as advertisements to prospective members. Making them look nice and displaying useful information helps give prospective members a better idea about what a group's about. As a group owner, I never look at my group home pages at all.

Thanks,
Mark


moderated Re: Group home page redesign

Chris Jones
 

On Fri, Jun 14, 2019 at 02:25 PM, Samuel Murray wrote:
Sections like "top hashtags" and "group settings" should be collapsed by default.
I am less sure about Group Settings being collapsed but I would certainly prefer to see Top Hashtags disappear completely. I definitely don't want to see then occupying such a large "in yer face" banner as they did on Home Pages until the scheme was reverted.

Different groups will use hashtags to different extents ranging from "not at all" to "extensively"; OK so the "not at alls" will have no hashtags visible, but the "sparinglys" will. On the group I moderate subscribers are not able to create hastags, and the list of those they can use is small. Moderators have access to several others. I also suggest that the impact of hashtags depends largely on whether subscribers use the web UI or email, so to make them such a "big feature" on the Home Page may not serve any useful purpose.

I can live with them as the currently are but IMHO having them as prominent as they are here on beta (at the moment) is not really of any discernable benefit.

Chris


moderated Site updates #changelog

 

Changes to the site this week:

  • INTERNAL: Entered into a contract with a consulting firm to finish up the iOS/Android app.
  • CHANGE: Incorporated the feed view into the group home page and changed how hashtags are displayed. Currently tested on beta@.
  • NEW: New activity log entry for when a message is sent to a (premium) group with a calendar invite, and the sender doesn't have permission to add events to the calendar.
  • CHANGE: Tweaked hashtag box text colors and margins.
  • CHANGE: Changed the calendar header buttons to better fit smaller screens/better fit the rest of the site.
  • NEW: Messages/Topics now includes a Hashtag dropdown to view by hashtag.
  • INTERNAL: Upgraded fontawesome to 5.9.0.
  • BUGFIX: Upgraded Fullcalendar to v 3.10.0 to fix a couple of formatting bugs on mobile.
  • BUGFIX: The cancel button on the Mute Topic page didn't cancel the muting.
  • INTERNAL: Rearchitected how we save past subscriber information. Also changed the past member object returned by the API.
  • BUGFIX: In some instances of HTML messages that only contain a quoted section, we'd just display a blank page.
  • BUGFIX: Fix crash when replying to a message in a subgroup that you're not subscribed to (that has Allow Parent Subs To Post set to true).
  • BUGFIX: Fix group and user export issue when the exported file is greater than 5GB.
  • NEW: Track delivery status of private replies to group messages.

Have a good weekend everyone.

Mark


moderated fix toggling of alpha column-order vs which column ordered by #suggestion

 

When viewing the members list, the default display order is date joined. Say you want to order by email address. You click on the email column heading, but what happens is that you get a display in reverse alpha order of email address, and have to click on that column a second time to see it in alpha order. This is a mild PITA (and also vaguely disconcerting - it's not what you expect).

I want the system to distinguish between my intention to (a) switch the column the display is ordered by, on the one hand, vs. (b) toggle the display between alpha and reverse alpha, on the other.

It seems easy to do: if the display is currently ordered by X, and the user clicks on Y, just change the column the display is ordered by, and assume alpha order is desired. If, OTOH, the display is currently ordered by X and the user clicks on X again, then toggle between alpha and reverse alpha.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

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