Date   

moderated Re: Rethinking the #cal- hashtags

Steph Mathews
 

Good morning.
In my honest opinion you should get rid of the calendar hashtags altogether.
If I need to do a whole new message but just let me know.
 
I've also noticed that on my events in the calendar in my groups except for 1, it says upcoming event before it even the ones that post as the event happens.  Steph 
 
 
 
 

-------Original Message-------
 
Date: 06/13/19 23:47:46
Subject: [beta] Rethinking the #cal- hashtags
 
Hi All,

I'm pondering a couple things about the calendar hashtags and would like your input.

First, here is a list of the hashtags used by the calendar, and what messages they correspond to:

#cal-invite - when an event is created or updated, the message contains an .ics attachment
#cal-notice - when an event happens
#cal-reminder - reminder of an upcoming event
#cal-summary - weekly/monthly summary of upcoming events

It's weird when I set up a #downtime notice using the calendar, like I just did, and it sends out a message tagged #cal-invite. I'm not inviting you to the downtime (Hey, downtime slumber party!). It feels like something like #cal-event would be better in that situation. Would it be better in every situation? Should I rename #cal-invite to #cal-event, or maybe something else?

Also, in the various hashtag displays, like the new Hashtags dropdown filter on Messages, it feels weird to show all these #cal hashtags. It feels redundant and confusing. What if there was a way to 'collapse' these related hashtags in those displays? Like create collections of hashtags; select the collection and all messages from all those hashtags would be displayed? This would not affect muting/following hashtags in any way. 

If we go with collections, I was thinking how to make it as easy as possible. My first thought was to use the dash that these hashtags have. All hashtags that begin with the same prefix before a dash would be considered part of the same collection (in this case, the #cal collection). But then I looked and we have ~3900 non-cal-based hashtags in the system that have dashes. So I don't think a dash would be a good delimiter. We could go with a character not currently used for hashtags, like a slash ( / ). So, the cal hashtags would be #cal/event, #cal/notice, #cal/reminder, #cal/summary. You could end up with entire hierarchies of hashtags, although to what end I do not know. How do you like the 'look' of hashtags with slashes in them?

Finally, if we go with collections, do we stick with #cal as the prefix? 

Your thoughts are appreciated.

Thanks,
Mark
 


moderated Re: Group home page redesign

Samuel Murrayy
 

On 2019/06/14 01:28 AM, Duane wrote:

On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 05:28 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:

The goal is bring more information to the group home page and make
it more dynamic.
Optimally for me, and others based on their comments on GMF, I'd be able to turn all of this off for my groups.
I agree. In fact, it may be counter-productive to show the "top" or "most recent" threads on the home page. It can create the wrong impression about what sort of content is most common in the group. If the new home page UI is finally finished, and showing the most recent threads is optional, I'll definitely disable it.

I understand the urge to put as many little curious and interesting bells and whistles on the home page as possible, to make it look nice and fun, but the home page should first and foremost be *useful* and serve its main purpose.

Samuel


moderated Re: Group home page redesign

Samuel Murrayy
 

On 2019/06/14 12:27 AM, Mark Fletcher wrote:

The goal is bring more information to the group home page and make it more dynamic.
The problem is that different types of information are relevant to different types of users. I think the home page is likely to be visited by newly subscribed users and users who consider subscribing. Older users will more likely bookmark the threads page or want to go do it directly after they've seen the home page. Only in very few cases would users need to see information like "top hashtags", "group information" and "group settings".

So, I think you should design the home page so that the entire portion below the group image is reserved for whichever way the owner wants the home page to look, followed by a few collapsed sections (which can expand if the user clicks on it). Sections like "top hashtags" and "group settings" should be collapsed by default.

I think it's a bad idea to start with the most important and likely most wanted information *collapsed*. I know some people thing it's fancy to start things collapsed and expect users to click to expand it, but collapsing by default should be reserved for things that are less important -- not for things that are *more* important.

The only users who will enjoy a page with lots of collapsed content, are mobile users, for whom having to tap on various elements of a page makes the page seem "dynamic" (i.e. less boring).

The home page is the URL that you tell people about when you want them to visit your group and consider joining it. What elements are expanded or collapsed should be based on that consideration.

Samuel



Thanks,
Mark


moderated Re: Group home page redesign

Nina Eppes
 

> Out of curiosity, do you regularly look at your group home page? And if so, why?

I look at my group's home page, and the home pages of our two subgroups, pretty regularly, but I doubt many of our members do. I use the description as a place to put some reference information (where to find info about upcoming concerts and such) and would like it to remain fully visible at the top of the page. We're mostly an email-oriented group, but I do encourage members to go to our Groups.io website to find information.

I do have a suggestion/request: Can the cover photo area at the top of the home page be reduced (or have different size options)? The current size seems unnecessarily large to me and takes up a lot of real estate on the page.

- Nina


moderated Re: Rethinking the #cal- hashtags

 

Mark,

It feels like something like #cal-event would be better in that
situation.
As painful as the change would be, I think this may make more sense:

#cal-notice - when an event is created or updated, ...
#cal-event - when an event happens
The semantics being that the "notice" is more appropriate to the event's creation and "event" more appropriate to the occurrence of the event itself. That gives the time sequence -notice, -reminder(s), -event.

But then I looked and we have ~3900 non-cal-based hashtags in the
system that have dashes.
Non-cal isn't really the question. If you separate them by group and then sort alphabetically, does hierarchical usage appear? I'm going to guess "no", but I've only a small sample of groups to look at.

So I don't think a dash would be a good delimiter. We could go with a
character not currently used for hashtags, like a slash ( / ). ... How
do you like the 'look' of hashtags with slashes in them?
It will take me a bit to get used to that, but I agree that it is probably better not to use hyphen. In plain English hyphen is a joiner, but not necessarily a hierarchy.

Slash connotes an alternative ("yes/no") more than a hierarchy, but its use for a hierarchy will likely seem natural to computer users.

Shal


moderated Re: Rethinking the #cal- hashtags

Dave Sergeant
 

On 13 Jun 2019 at 21:47, Mark Fletcher wrote:

I'm pondering a couple things about the calendar hashtags and would like
your input.
Like some in the other thread, our groups just don't use hashtags and I
wouldn't miss them whatever they said. Just extra clutter in email
subject lines. But one member did find them useful in that he could
block all calendar reminders, so I guess they have some sort of use.

Dave

http://davesergeant.com


moderated Re: Event: Downtime to patch latest Intel vulnerability #downtime - Thursday, 27 June 2019 #downtime #cal-invite

Dave Sergeant
 

On 13 Jun 2019 at 21:21, main@beta.groups.io Calendar wrote:

When: Thursday, 27 June 2019
9:00pm to 11:00pm
(GMT-07:00) America/Los Angeles
It took me several minutes to work out this is Friday June 28th 5am to
7am BST here in the UK. PLEASE specify these times in GMT instead of
this quaint computer time.

Dave

http://davesergeant.com


moderated Re: Rethinking the #cal- hashtags

 

Hi Mark,

In regards to renaming #CalInvite: I’m in favor of renaming it to #CalEvent.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: main@beta.groups.io <main@beta.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mark Fletcher
Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2019 9:47 PM
To: beta@groups.io
Subject: [beta] Rethinking the #cal- hashtags

 

Hi All,

 

I'm pondering a couple things about the calendar hashtags and would like your input.

 

First, here is a list of the hashtags used by the calendar, and what messages they correspond to:

 

#cal-invite - when an event is created or updated, the message contains an .ics attachment
#cal-notice - when an event happens
#cal-reminder - reminder of an upcoming event
#cal-summary - weekly/monthly summary of upcoming events

 

It's weird when I set up a #downtime notice using the calendar, like I just did, and it sends out a message tagged #cal-invite. I'm not inviting you to the downtime (Hey, downtime slumber party!). It feels like something like #cal-event would be better in that situation. Would it be better in every situation? Should I rename #cal-invite to #cal-event, or maybe something else?

 

Also, in the various hashtag displays, like the new Hashtags dropdown filter on Messages, it feels weird to show all these #cal hashtags. It feels redundant and confusing. What if there was a way to 'collapse' these related hashtags in those displays? Like create collections of hashtags; select the collection and all messages from all those hashtags would be displayed? This would not affect muting/following hashtags in any way. 

 

If we go with collections, I was thinking how to make it as easy as possible. My first thought was to use the dash that these hashtags have. All hashtags that begin with the same prefix before a dash would be considered part of the same collection (in this case, the #cal collection). But then I looked and we have ~3900 non-cal-based hashtags in the system that have dashes. So I don't think a dash would be a good delimiter. We could go with a character not currently used for hashtags, like a slash ( / ). So, the cal hashtags would be #cal/event, #cal/notice, #cal/reminder, #cal/summary. You could end up with entire hierarchies of hashtags, although to what end I do not know. How do you like the 'look' of hashtags with slashes in them?

 

Finally, if we go with collections, do we stick with #cal as the prefix? 

 

Your thoughts are appreciated.

 

Thanks,

Mark


moderated Rethinking the #cal- hashtags

 

Hi All,

I'm pondering a couple things about the calendar hashtags and would like your input.

First, here is a list of the hashtags used by the calendar, and what messages they correspond to:

#cal-invite - when an event is created or updated, the message contains an .ics attachment
#cal-notice - when an event happens
#cal-reminder - reminder of an upcoming event
#cal-summary - weekly/monthly summary of upcoming events

It's weird when I set up a #downtime notice using the calendar, like I just did, and it sends out a message tagged #cal-invite. I'm not inviting you to the downtime (Hey, downtime slumber party!). It feels like something like #cal-event would be better in that situation. Would it be better in every situation? Should I rename #cal-invite to #cal-event, or maybe something else?

Also, in the various hashtag displays, like the new Hashtags dropdown filter on Messages, it feels weird to show all these #cal hashtags. It feels redundant and confusing. What if there was a way to 'collapse' these related hashtags in those displays? Like create collections of hashtags; select the collection and all messages from all those hashtags would be displayed? This would not affect muting/following hashtags in any way. 

If we go with collections, I was thinking how to make it as easy as possible. My first thought was to use the dash that these hashtags have. All hashtags that begin with the same prefix before a dash would be considered part of the same collection (in this case, the #cal collection). But then I looked and we have ~3900 non-cal-based hashtags in the system that have dashes. So I don't think a dash would be a good delimiter. We could go with a character not currently used for hashtags, like a slash ( / ). So, the cal hashtags would be #cal/event, #cal/notice, #cal/reminder, #cal/summary. You could end up with entire hierarchies of hashtags, although to what end I do not know. How do you like the 'look' of hashtags with slashes in them?

Finally, if we go with collections, do we stick with #cal as the prefix? 

Your thoughts are appreciated.

Thanks,
Mark


moderated Event: Downtime to patch latest Intel vulnerability #downtime - Thursday, 27 June 2019 #downtime #cal-invite

main@beta.groups.io Calendar <main@...>
 

Downtime to patch latest Intel vulnerability #downtime

When:
Thursday, 27 June 2019
9:00pm to 11:00pm
(GMT-07:00) America/Los Angeles

Description:

The site will be down potentially for up to two hours, although I hope it will be much less than that. Our hosting provider, Linode, has to upgrade all the physical machines our service runs on. This downtime corresponds to the upgrade of our main database instance. It's the only downtime that I expect from this latest vulnerability.

Mail will be queued during the downtime and will be sent when we are back on-line.


moderated Re: Group home page redesign

 

On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 5:51 PM Shal Farley <shals2nd@...> wrote:

The truncated description was a bug and will be fixed (the idea is to have a link to expand it).

I had written a whole message about that, now superseded by your reply to J that the Description text will not be collapsed. Yay!

Sorry for the wasted work. :-)

 
My thinking: the group's home page description is a group's one-and-only shot at conveying information about the group to a non-member before that person decides to click the Join (or Apply) button. Anything that gets in the way of that presentation has me skeptical at best.

Agreed! That was the reason why I did this.

Thanks,
Mark 


moderated Re: Group home page redesign

 

On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 05:05 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
I agree with Diane.
oops, belatedly realized that should have been "Duane"
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Group home page redesign

Leeni
 

It was like that when I checked before the full homepages were restored.
I didn't want non members to be able to see the Activity so that was one of the first things I checked.  I hope it will stay like that.
 
 
 
 

-------Original Message-------
 
From: J_Catlady
Date: 6/13/2019 8:35:56 PM
Subject: Re: [beta] Group home page redesign
 
On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 05:50 PM, Leeni wrote:
if a group is set to only have members see the messages-archives, all of the additional information that is going to be featured in the "new" look will not be seen by any prospective members.
I certainly hope that's the case! I hadn't thought of that aspect.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

 


moderated Re: Group home page redesign

 

On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 05:50 PM, Leeni wrote:
if a group is set to only have members see the messages-archives, all of the additional information that is going to be featured in the "new" look will not be seen by any prospective members.
I certainly hope that's the case! I hadn't thought of that aspect.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Group home page redesign

 

Mark,

On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 05:29 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
I will make it so that the group description is displayed in full, no click through needed.
Great, thanks!

Hashtags are an important and valuable part of many groups; I think displaying them nicely is a good idea.
Of course. And I would not want to get rid of all my group's hashtags. My issue is (was) with the space proportions. Hashtags are a minor feature in my group, yet they were allocated much more space than the group description. Now that that's fixed, I don't mind the hashtag display.

I pushed the hashtags, if any, to the right edge. I never liked the previous look of the tags at the end of the topic when the topic spanned two lines (especially on mobile). Suggestions for improvement are definitely welcome.
Maybe you could leave hashtags out of the Active Topics list. But I doubt that will fly. :)
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Group home page redesign

Duane
 

On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 07:32 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
Out of curiosity, do you regularly look at your group home page? And if so, why?
Depends on the definition of 'regularly'. ;>)  I do check the home page of all my groups, both as a member and a non-member, from time to time.  I've tweaked them a bit over the 4+ years the groups have been here.  Mostly it's to make sure that non-members understand the reason for the group and that it fits their needs.  Based on what I saw during the oopsy, only members would see the Active Topics anyway since we have Private Archives.

As far as hashtags, my groups have a few, but they're very important to assist with finding specific information, so deleting them isn't an option.  We could use the search function, but hashtags are faster for these situations.  Since we'll never have many, endlessly repeating them on the Home page seems to be a waste of space and likely wouldn't be understood by many non-members if they could see them.  They're used sparingly for the most crucial information, so the Top Ten seldom change.  I've never seen any reason to have them on the Home page, but have no (useful) way to get rid of them.

Thanks,
Duane


moderated Re: Group home page redesign

Leeni
 

That is great! It will be wonderful.
Thanks  - Leeni 
 
 
 
 

-------Original Message-------
 
Date: 6/13/2019 7:32:05 PM
Subject: Re: [beta] Group home page redesign
 

On 13 Jun 2019, at 17:28, Mark Fletcher wrote:

I will make it so that the group description is displayed in full, no click through needed. That completely makes sense.

Thanks so much. That will be wonderful.

 


moderated Re: Group home page redesign

 

Mark,


The truncated description was a bug and will be fixed (the idea is to have a link to expand it).

I had written a whole message about that, now superseded by your reply to J that the Description text will not be collapsed. Yay!

My thinking: the group's home page description is a group's one-and-only shot at conveying information about the group to a non-member before that person decides to click the Join (or Apply) button. Anything that gets in the way of that presentation has me skeptical at best.

Shal


moderated Re: Group home page redesign

Leeni
 

First if a group is set to only have members see the messages-archives, all of the additional information that is going to be featured in the "new" look will not be seen by any prospective members. It will only be seen by members already in the group and they already know what messages were sent because they read it in their email. My groups are basically email groups.
 
Prospective members will just see a shrunken home page which they have to click on to see the rest of what the group is about.
 
Now I don't look at MY homepage very often except to get links for posting to send out to members, but I do look at other group's homepages quite often when I am thinking of joining another group.
 
Now I refer my members back to my group's home page frequently when they are sharing something that shouldn't be shared or ask what should be shared. I give them the link to the homepage and ask them to check it out. So the homepage the way it is now works nicely for my groups and the circle of groups I associate with. 
 
Leeni
 
 
 
 
 
 

-------Original Message-------
 
Date: 6/13/2019 7:32:57 PM
Subject: Re: [beta] Group home page redesign
 
Hi Duane,

On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 4:28 PM Duane <txpigeon@...> wrote:

At the very least, I'd like to see all of the 'new' items moved to the bottom (below Group Email Addresses) and the description restored to full view.  Optimally for me, and others based on their comments on GMF, I'd be able to turn all of this off for my groups.  All of the information I see, except for Top Hashtags (which I'd rather not have anyway), is on the Feed page and I'd rather not have it cluttering the Home page.

Out of curiosity, do you regularly look at your group home page? And if so, why? I think of the group home pages as advertisements to prospective members. Making them look nice and displaying useful information helps give prospective members a better idea about what a group's about. As a group owner, I never look at my group home pages at all.

Thanks,
Mark
 


moderated Re: Group home page redesign

 

Hi Duane,

On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 4:28 PM Duane <txpigeon@...> wrote:

At the very least, I'd like to see all of the 'new' items moved to the bottom (below Group Email Addresses) and the description restored to full view.  Optimally for me, and others based on their comments on GMF, I'd be able to turn all of this off for my groups.  All of the information I see, except for Top Hashtags (which I'd rather not have anyway), is on the Feed page and I'd rather not have it cluttering the Home page.

Out of curiosity, do you regularly look at your group home page? And if so, why? I think of the group home pages as advertisements to prospective members. Making them look nice and displaying useful information helps give prospective members a better idea about what a group's about. As a group owner, I never look at my group home pages at all.

Thanks,
Mark

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