Date   

moderated Re: Reply to Sender

Noel Leaver
 

> Perhaps so. I look at it this way: Although we group owners are accustomed to using the web interface, I'd say that 80-90% of my subscribers use email only. The "reply-to" fields of all outgoing emails are populated per the group default setting.

On my groups it is similar, perhaps nearer 80% though the group owners rarely use the web interface.

> If the subscriber's email client respects that (a whole other conversation), then clicking on "reply" sends it back that way. To override, they have to manually populate the To: address.

No they don't, they click on the Reply to sender link at the bottom of the email which (on all 3 of my email clients/platforms) sends an email directly to the sender.

Noel


moderated Re: Reply to Sender

KWKloeber
 

Reruns are NEVER junk.  Current is the junk.!!


moderated Re: Reply to Sender

Jim Higgins
 

On Wed, Mar 27, 2019 at 09:45 PM, Ken Kloeber wrote:

Mark

<<<1) There is logic to the Private button being grey. It's not active. When
you press the button to active a private reply, it changes color. This is in
keeping with how other buttons are colored on the site.>>>

NO!!!! There's no defending that logic
I agree! Might be in keeping with buttons on the site that I'm not familiar with because I'm a via email type of guy, but that approach to button coloring is completely out of sync with the rest of the button producing world where buttons are made grey to show they're non-functional.

Why not just have two buttons -- green "send to group" and blue "send a
private message to the sender (or poster)"? Saves clicks!
Grayed-out means "don't bother trying to use me", "I don't do anything" and
"always" has meant this -- until SOMEONE tries to redefine the traditional
role of the use of the gray color (just to be different, not better.)
A grayed out feature button MEANS -- don't tread on me, it's useless, I am
asleep and I will not wake up no matter how hard/often you click or curse at
the screen.
Yes! Yes to the idea of two (or very few) buttons and especially to the illogic of a button intended to be used being rendered as grey.

Carrying on with Ken's suggestion... I think the whole sequence involving creating a reply and THEN deciding whether to click "Reply to Group" or to VERY unintuitively click a greyed out "Private" button to make the "Reply to Group" button change to "Reply to Sender" so I can then click "Reply to Sender" is completely bass ackwards.

IMHO, when reading a message online - as I'm doing now for the first time ever on Gio - and deciding you want to reply, you should see - as Ken basically just suggested - buttons saying "Reply to Group" and "Reply to Sender" (no "Private" button) and then ONLY AFTER clicking one of those should you see the reply creation screen. Now you type your reply and when done either click "Discard" or click the one other button that says I don't care what as long as it translates unambiguously to "Send My Reply."

Before seeing the reply creation screen, I'm fine with additional reply option buttons such as "Reply to Group and Sender," etc, etc, as well as restricting the choice of reply types in accord with settings the group owner may have made when setting up the group. But once a reply has been typed, the only choices should be discard or send.

Jim H


moderated Re: Reply to Sender

 

Huh is right , Ken! Of course it’s clickable! I’m binge-watching too much junk old reruns, am clearly losing it. It wasn t clickable because I hadn’t composed a message yet. 😊


On Mar 27, 2019, at 2:55 PM, Ken Kloeber via Groups.Io <KWKloeber@...> wrote:

<<<I wonder whether it's confusing to have an actual clickable button ("discard") next to a non-clickable informational area (the green "reply to group" or "reply to sender" area) but this is probably getting too far afield. I think it is, however, causing or contributing to the mixing up of "private" vs "reply to sender" in this conversation.>>>
 
J, HUH?!?!
 
The blue "Reply to Sender" is certainly a clickable button, just as is "Reply to Group" (before it changes to Blue) as is the "Discard" also a button.
Even the gray "Private" is still clickable once it turns to blue (turns back to gray and removes the "Reply to sender" option.)
 
Explain the logic in all that click crap?

Virus-free. www.avg.com

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Feed view now the default

Gerald Boutin <groupsio@...>
 

Oops...

"- If you visit Muted or Followed Topics, we don't change your remembered home page."

--
Gerald


moderated Re: Feed view now the default

Gerald Boutin <groupsio@...>
 

It seemed sort of random, but now it seems that it may just be that Hashtag is not remembered as a last Homepage

Click on main Groups icon
Select Topics/All     .....  The view is "Your Groups / All topics"
Select Hashtag/Muted ... The view is "Your Groups / #Muted Hashtags"
Click on main Groups icon  ... Goes back to  "Your Groups / All topics"

--
Gerald


moderated Re: Reply to Sender

KWKloeber
 

<<<I wonder whether it's confusing to have an actual clickable button ("discard") next to a non-clickable informational area (the green "reply to group" or "reply to sender" area) but this is probably getting too far afield. I think it is, however, causing or contributing to the mixing up of "private" vs "reply to sender" in this conversation.>>>
 
J, HUH?!?!
 
The blue "Reply to Sender" is certainly a clickable button, just as is "Reply to Group" (before it changes to Blue) as is the "Discard" also a button.
Even the gray "Private" is still clickable once it turns to blue (turns back to gray and removes the "Reply to sender" option.)
 
Explain the logic in all that click crap?

Virus-free. www.avg.com


moderated Re: Reply to Sender

 

Re the "graying out" thing, the button does not really look grayed-out to me, as grayed-out non-active buttons look. Its background is clearly white and I would not hesitate to click on it, as I would hesitate to click on a grayed-out button. Also, grayed-out buttons usually have a diagonal line through them as well. Regardless of color, this one doesn't have that. Seeing that button, the thought that it's inactive doesn't even enter my mind. So I don't know where this tangent is coming from.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Reply to Sender

 

On Wed, Mar 27, 2019 at 02:34 PM, Bruce Bowman wrote:
80-90% of my subscribers use email only.
I think we need to accept the fact that the various groups have various cultures and so will tend to have various stats for that. My group members use the web almost exclusively, according to the log entries I see. A separate issue is the "jumping through hoops" thing. Jumping through hoops is one thing. Jumping through flaming hoops of fire is another. :)
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Reply to Sender

KWKloeber
 

Mark
 
<<<1) There is logic to the Private button being grey. It's not active. When you press the button to active a private reply, it changes color. This is in keeping with how other buttons are colored on the site.>>>
 
NO!!!!  There's no defending that logic
 
To be precise, the button DOES NOT simply change or activate a private reply..  Hitting the button (that is grayed out and by convention it is NOT "active," NOT "a valid choice", and "does NOT work") creates ANOTHER and different action,  It CHANGES A DIFFERENT button (green "send to group") to blue, "reply to sender", and yes, the grayed button ALSO goes to blue.   HUH??!? From a user point of use this makes no sense at all. 
 
Maybe from a developer's view/world it does. 
 
Why not just have two buttons -- green "send to group" and blue "send a private message to the sender (or poster)"?  Saves clicks! 
 
Grayed-out means "don't bother trying to use me", "I don't do anything" and "always" has meant this -- until SOMEONE tries to redefine the traditional role of the use of the gray color (just to be different, not better.)    A grayed out feature button MEANS -- don't tread on me, it's useless, I am asleep and I will not wake up no matter how hard/often you click or curse at the screen.
 
k
 
 

Virus-free. www.avg.com


moderated Re: Reply to Sender

Bruce Bowman
 

On Wed, Mar 27, 2019 at 02:45 PM, Noel Leaver wrote:
I would say what it achieves is rather more than mild discouragement, more hidden so nobody finds it without being told where it is.
Perhaps so. I look at it this way:  Although we group owners are accustomed to using the web interface, I'd say that 80-90% of my subscribers use email only. The "reply-to" fields of all outgoing emails are populated per the group default setting. If the subscriber's email client respects that (a whole other conversation), then clicking on "reply" sends it back that way. To override, they have to manually populate the To: address.

So sending someone a non-default reply to a group email does require jumping through a hoop or two. It seems only appropriate to me that the web interface behave similarly.

Regards,
Bruce


moderated Re: Suggestion-calendar feature

Jim Higgins
 

Received from HR Tech via Groups.Io at 3/27/2019 12:46 AM UTC:

I wonder if there is any way for mods to be alerted if a member sets up an event but doesn't check off cal-invite?
Mods could go in and correct that then.

Or for the member to be reminded that they are forgetting to announce their event.

How about a bold red notice in an appropriate place on the cal/event creation page stating the event will not be announced to the group unless the cal-invite checkbox is checked?

As a group owner, I don't want to be alerted to a subscriber's possible mistake when it should be the subscriber who is alerted.

Jim H


moderated Re: Reply to Sender

Noel Leaver
 

Part of the problem I think is for people using a browser on a PC the screen is very wide compared to a phone. On my screen the bright Reply and Discard buttons occupy 5.5 cm on the right of the screen, there is then a gap of over half the screen to the tiny (1.5 cm wide) private button.

 

Incidentally the same screen has a Previous Topic button which is greyed out as I'm on the first topic (though a lighter grey than the Private button).

 

If the Private button were closer to the Reply, for example underneath, it would be easier to notice and to realise it relates to the reply button.

 

Another suggestion. Could "Reply to Sender" appear as an option in the More menu on the message view screen? That is where I first looked for the functionality, and it would be sufficiently obscure people would not click it by accident. Just to take you to the reply screen with Private enabled.

 

Noel


moderated Re: Reply to Sender

Maria
 

On Wed, Mar 27, 2019 at 02:39 PM, Ken Kloeber wrote:
Seems very weird to have a grey button (which yes, means “this doesn’t work”) that does nothing but CHANGE the defaut green “reply to group” button into a blue “reply to sender” button. 
Huh?  How does that make any logical sense. But then again I’m a user, not a developer or coder. 
I'm not a developer, or a coder. But where did this notion that something that is grey is not something that can be clicked ( even though currently not active) come from?
I use many other platforms daily where text in grey is clickable/actionable: twitter, instagram, facebook, reddit, discourse forums, NYTimes, buttons on Amazon.
This is not different in any way to what "folks are accustomed to". If it were, I'd be spending a good chunk of my day helping members with it. Instead here I am :)


moderated Re: Reply to Sender

 

On Wed, Mar 27, 2019 at 11:42 AM, Noel Leaver wrote:
The button says "Reply to Group" for my groups. When I click on the Private button it changes to "Reply to Sende
I think there's an element of confusion with use of the word "button" in this conversation. A "button" is something you can click on; that's the one at right which says "private." After you click on that, the green area at the left of "discard" changes from "reply to group" to "reply to sender." But I would not call that a button.

I wonder whether it's confusing to have an actual clickable button ("discard") next to a non-clickable informational area (the green "reply to group" or "reply to sender" area) but this is probably getting too far afield. I think it is, however, causing or contributing to the mixing up of "private" vs "reply to sender" in this conversation.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Reply to Sender

Noel Leaver
 

> The button was set up this way to gently discourage subscribers from using something that was not intended to be the primary reply mode of the group.

 

I would say what it achieves is rather more than mild discouragement, more hidden so nobody finds it without being told where it is.

 

Noel


moderated Re: Reply to Sender

Noel Leaver
 

> Actually, according to my screen readerthe button does say "reply to sender." Does it not say that for you guys?

The button says "Reply to Group" for my groups. When I click on the Private button it changes to "Reply to Sender".

 

Noel


moderated Re: Reply to Sender

KWKloeber
 

Seems very weird to have a grey button (which yes, means “this doesn’t work”) that does nothing but CHANGE the defaut green “reply to group” button into a blue “reply to sender” button. 
Huh?  How does that make any logical sense. But then again I’m a user, not a developer or coder. 

Just like on a site, your account or log in is always upper right; .” Continue” button at the right, many times with an arrow. EXCEPT those who feel it necessary to put “continue” on the left and “account” in a footer.  WHY? be different than folks are accustomed to unless it’s “better”? not just different. 


moderated Re: Reply to Sender

Maria
 

On Wed, Mar 27, 2019 at 01:44 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
1) There is logic to the Private button being grey. It's not active. When you press the button to active a private reply, it changes color. This is in keeping with how other buttons are colored on the site.
 
Yes, and it feels perfect to me as is for that reason.It's greyed out til you activate it - like on other sites.
And as Sarah mentions, once you click to activate it you do get "reply to sender" written on the button that before had "reply to group" or vice-versa.
I get zero complaints about this aspect of the interface on my end for what it's worth.

 
2) We add 'Private:' to the subject line for these responses. When you send a private message to someone via the group directory, we prepend '[DM]' to the subject. Should these both be consistent/the same word? Note also that we look for messages sent to the group that have a subject starting with 'Private:' and bounce those back to the sender. If the word were to be changed, I don't particularly like the word 'Off-list' because I generally like to use the word group instead of list, because Groups.io groups are much more than mailing lists.
I am fine with the way things are.

While Direct Message and Private Message are somewhat used interchangeably, there are subtleties.
I think DM's are DM's when they are not part of a topic. Sent as stand alone direct messages to a member from a member. They are more intimate.
You are essentially starting a conversation where there was none.

Whereas private replies are replies to topics which are sent privately and are in a context of a group discussion/chat.

Also, while you could call them both DM's, that "private" button would look weird and not intuitive if instead of "private" it said "direct" or "DM"  - not everyone knows yet what DM stands for even if it's used freely as a verb these days.

Maria


moderated Re: Reply to Sender

 

On Wed, Mar 27, 2019 at 10:44 AM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
Should these both be consistent/the same word?
Mark,

I have no preference on that.

I did notice that the bouncing of messages whose subject begins with "private" no longer seems to be working. I tested it just now because I vaguely remembered an issue with that. The messages are going straight through. I'll send the example to you at support.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

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