Date   

moderated Re: Change handling of banned vs. removed members somehow? #suggestion

 

"Past members" is only available in premium groups.


On Sun, Jan 27, 2019 at 5:30 PM Termicat <termicat@...> wrote:
Where do I find the past members list?
 
Termi
 
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...>
Reply-To: <main@beta.groups.io>
To: <main@beta.groups.io>
Sent: 1/27/2019 4:14:18 PM
Subject: Re: [beta] Change handling of banned vs. removed members somehow? #suggestion

Bottom line, my request is to clean this whole area up somehow. At minimum, I think a "banned" member should show up in "past members" without having to specifically remove them from the banned list after the banning, and then ban them AGAIN from the "removed members" list.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Change handling of banned vs. removed members somehow? #suggestion

Termicat
 

Where do I find the past members list?
 
Termi
 
 
 
 

----- Original Message -----
From: J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...>
Reply-To: <main@beta.groups.io>
To: <main@beta.groups.io>
Sent: 1/27/2019 4:14:18 PM
Subject: Re: [beta] Change handling of banned vs. removed members somehow? #suggestion

Bottom line, my request is to clean this whole area up somehow. At minimum, I think a "banned" member should show up in "past members" without having to specifically remove them from the banned list after the banning, and then ban them AGAIN from the "removed members" list.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Change handling of banned vs. removed members somehow? #suggestion

 

Another thing is that a member's "date joined" gets set to the date they were banned under the circumstances I just described. Which is incorrect. It's taking the date they were added to the "banned members" list and using it as the date they joined the group.


On Sun, Jan 27, 2019 at 4:14 PM J_Catlady via Groups.Io <j.olivia.catlady=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
Bottom line, my request is to clean this whole area up somehow. At minimum, I think a "banned" member should show up in "past members" without having to specifically remove them from the banned list after the banning, and then ban them AGAIN from the "removed members" list.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Change handling of banned vs. removed members somehow? #suggestion

 

Bottom line, my request is to clean this whole area up somehow. At minimum, I think a "banned" member should show up in "past members" without having to specifically remove them from the banned list after the banning, and then ban them AGAIN from the "removed members" list.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Change handling of banned vs. removed members somehow? #suggestion

 

I am starting to grant more privileges to my moderators (previously I handled almost everything by myself). There is one really confusing them re banned vs. removing members, and my newly privileged moderators, not surprisingly, are totally confused.

Today I asked them to "remove and ban" member X from the group (I was not home and couldn't easily do it from my phone, plus I wanted to give them the experience.) So a mod banned X successfully. But she did not after that show up in the "past members" list. She showed up in the "banned" list with "joined date" of a few months ago, when she joined the group.

I wanted her to be in "past members," so I then went into the banned members list and clicked on "remove." The dialog came up asking me, "Remove this member from the group?" (as if she were still in it) and I clicked on "yes." Of course, the effect was not to remove her from the GROUP, since she'd already been removed (although did show up as such). The effect was to remove her FROM THE BANNED MEMBERS LIST. So I then had to go in and ban her again, using the past members list. This time, her "join date" in the banned list showed up as just now, the date and time I banned her!

I realize there's something going on with internal member records here that I don't grasp and probably never will, but it seems funky, to say the least. I wonder now - and will shortly test this in my test group - whether "ban" and "remove" are commutative operations, i.e., whether the effect of first removing someone and then banning them is the same as first banning them and then removing them. It seems intuitively that when you ban someone, you would expect that they would also be removed (and show up in the past members list). But that's not exactly the case.

I'm going to do some further experimenting, but something seems very quirky here. I've noticed anomalies with banned vs removed before this, but I need something to give my newly-empowered moderators to explain to them what they should do to ban a member and have them show up, as I think they should, in the "past members" list without going through contortions.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Can we change the topic at the message level?

KWKloeber
 

<<But why are we revisiting this when thd decision has already been made?>>
 
Because? Read my first post  :-)
 
Shal, I love the acronym.
Perhaps at least interim(ly), tracking the same sequence (first or absolute last) as how the sequence of msgs is set.
 
-ken

Virus-free. www.avg.com


moderated Re: Can we change the topic at the message level?

Gerald Boutin <groupsio@...>
 

On Sat, Jan 26, 2019 at 10:50 PM, Shal Farley wrote:
Actually, FUMLUB (as Eudora used to call it) would probably be better: First Unread Message in Last Unread Block. That would best preserve the context of where you last read, and you wouldn't be forced to go read backwards from messages much newer than your last read.
Shal,

I don't disagree with anything you say. In fact, I think FUMLUB is my new favorite AOTW (Acronym of the Week).

I was agreeing with not doing work that would be thrown away when tracking was implemented. Given that it has been almost two years since the original discussions took place, I can wait a bit longer for the tracking version.

--
Gerald


moderated Re: Site updates #changelog

Mark Elliot <markn8wzw@...>
 

Hello mark E You all not seen keep groups.io do one hell of a job thank you  
For all the hard work 



Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.

-------- Original message --------
From: Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io>
Date: 1/26/19 12:04 AM (GMT-05:00)
To: main@beta.groups.io
Subject: [beta] Site updates #changelog

Changes to the site this week:

  • BUGFIX: Fixed search query escaping (phrase search and regex search was broken).
  • CHANGE: Wiki Table of Contents now span the entire page.
  • BUGFIX: Fix display of text/calendar attachments when viewing messages.
  • BUGFIX: For long messages with multi-byte characters that were creating new topics, we would sometimes improperly truncate the topic summary, causing a database error and the message to not be sent.
  • BUGFIX: Sometimes we'd display the Subgroups tab under the Admin menu when the person didn't have permission to access it (only the tab was displayed, they would get an error if they clicked it).
  • BUGFIX: If a person cannot post or respond to a poll, do not show the Add Poll tab in the sidebar.
  • NEW: Added more tracking query parameters that are removed with the clean links button.
  • NEW: In premium groups, if a calendar invite is sent to the group, the event now is automatically added to the group calendar.
  • INTERNAL: Simplified how signatures are stored in the system, fixing a couple of corner case bugs.

Have a good weekend everyone.

Mark


moderated Re: Can we change the topic at the message level?

 

I’m confused. I thought Mark already posted in this thread, long ago, that he would change it to the most recent, which I agree is the most useful. Shal’s idea of a hover to see the original is also great. But why are we revisiting this when thd decision has already been made?

On Jan 26, 2019, at 3:40 PM, Shal Farley <shals2nd@gmail.com> wrote:

Gerald,

I am happy keeping the Topics view display showing the first post of
the thread. This will actually be pertinent to what the thread was
started for. Conversely, the last message is much more likely to be
off topic.
I think both use cases are valid. The keeping-up-to-date user who wants to see what's new in the Topics list; and the user who hasn't, or is new, or otherwise just wants to see what the topics are about.

A viewing option (next to the Date sorting link) that lets the user choose whether the snippets are first, latest, or latest unread* might be one way to satisfy all, at the cost of some additional UI complexity.

Maybe a simpler idea would be to make the snippet always show the latest (upgraded to latest unread, when that becomes available) and show the first as a tool-tip if one hovers over the snippet. The biggest downside to that I can see is that hovers don't tend to be available to mobile users. Maybe, since the snippet isn't a link, on mobile a click on it could pop up the first.

Shal
* Actually, FUMLUB (as Eudora used to call it) would probably be better: First Unread Message in Last Unread Block. That would best preserve the context of where you last read, and you wouldn't be forced to go read backwards from messages much newer than your last read.


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Can we change the topic at the message level?

 

Gerald,

I am happy keeping the Topics view display showing the first post of
the thread. This will actually be pertinent to what the thread was
started for. Conversely, the last message is much more likely to be
off topic.
I think both use cases are valid. The keeping-up-to-date user who wants to see what's new in the Topics list; and the user who hasn't, or is new, or otherwise just wants to see what the topics are about.

A viewing option (next to the Date sorting link) that lets the user choose whether the snippets are first, latest, or latest unread* might be one way to satisfy all, at the cost of some additional UI complexity.

Maybe a simpler idea would be to make the snippet always show the latest (upgraded to latest unread, when that becomes available) and show the first as a tool-tip if one hovers over the snippet. The biggest downside to that I can see is that hovers don't tend to be available to mobile users. Maybe, since the snippet isn't a link, on mobile a click on it could pop up the first.

Shal
* Actually, FUMLUB (as Eudora used to call it) would probably be better: First Unread Message in Last Unread Block. That would best preserve the context of where you last read, and you wouldn't be forced to go read backwards from messages much newer than your last read.


moderated Re: Yahoo Groups exports down again

Bob Bellizzi
 

It would be simple for yahoo serveers to use an Environment call to determine whether it's a browser environment or not and block any other app.
I think the incidence of people using the original app would be so seldom yahoo wouldn't notice.
forgive any typos.  Hurt my L middle finger today doing yard work and typing by  touch with 1 left and 5 right.
--

Bob Bellizzi

Founder, Fuchs Friends ®
Founder & Executive Director, The Corneal Dystrophy Foundation


moderated Re: Yahoo Groups exports down again

 

Bob,

The "old app" I used is the one that scrapes membership into an
"almost excel file".
That's the more interesting answer!

Either the change Mark ran into hasn't happened to the group(s) you tried yet, or the fact that it runs in a full-up browser environment magically provides the necessary parameter. I'll hope for the latter.

That would mean that if Mark decides to support member-less transfers then the Y!Groups with more than 1000 members aren't shut out. But they will need someone with some technical ability on board to handle the chrome app. And either a willingness to pony up at least $10 for a month of Premium to Direct Add the exported list, or do it with Invite.

Shal


moderated Re: Yahoo Groups exports down again

Bob Bellizzi
 

BTW, it's version 0.4
--

Bob Bellizzi

Founder, Fuchs Friends ®
Founder & Executive Director, The Corneal Dystrophy Foundation


moderated Re: Yahoo Groups exports down again

Bob Bellizzi
 

Shal,
Sorry to be so late responding.   Other stuff had to be handled so  I was off the system for about a day.
The "old app" I used is the one that scrapes membership into an "almost excel file".
After running it you simply copy and paste the whole thing into a new excel spreadsheet.
Gives you Moderator  level info if you are moderator or owner, otherwise you don't get the email address and you get an encoded yahoo id but you get all the rest of their status, delivery, bouncing etc.
Bob

--

Bob Bellizzi

Founder, Fuchs Friends ®
Founder & Executive Director, The Corneal Dystrophy Foundation


moderated Site updates #changelog

 

Changes to the site this week:

  • BUGFIX: Fixed search query escaping (phrase search and regex search was broken).
  • CHANGE: Wiki Table of Contents now span the entire page.
  • BUGFIX: Fix display of text/calendar attachments when viewing messages.
  • BUGFIX: For long messages with multi-byte characters that were creating new topics, we would sometimes improperly truncate the topic summary, causing a database error and the message to not be sent.
  • BUGFIX: Sometimes we'd display the Subgroups tab under the Admin menu when the person didn't have permission to access it (only the tab was displayed, they would get an error if they clicked it).
  • BUGFIX: If a person cannot post or respond to a poll, do not show the Add Poll tab in the sidebar.
  • NEW: Added more tracking query parameters that are removed with the clean links button.
  • NEW: In premium groups, if a calendar invite is sent to the group, the event now is automatically added to the group calendar.
  • INTERNAL: Simplified how signatures are stored in the system, fixing a couple of corner case bugs.

Have a good weekend everyone.

Mark


moderated Re: Yahoo Groups exports down again

 

Bob,


Mark, I just tried the old app and it's still working on two groups where I'm not even a moderator on one.
But on the one I'm a moderator I get the entire email addresses of all.

That's interesting. Which old app did you try?

There is one for the Manage Members list and one for the Conversations archive. If only the latter app that would be consistent with Mark's findings. With that app you would get the addresses only of members who've posted, and you wouldn't get any of their subscription details (Join date, delivery option, etc.).

If the Membership app still worked that might be one of those odd cases where Yahoo hasn't rolled a change out to all groups yet, or something else is afoot.

Shal


moderated Re: Yahoo Groups exports down again

 

Advance purchase idea is great. 😊


On Jan 25, 2019, at 3:46 PM, Shal Farley <shals2nd@...> wrote:

Mark,


I mean, maybe? I've disabled the entire group transfer system again.

The red-box note that replaced the instruction page still says "Yahoo has made a change to their login system...". That would seem to be out of date for the current outage.

From what you've said though it sounds like it might be sufficient to disable just the Transfer Members checkbox in the transfer forms.

I think asking people to go through the entire process you outlined above would most likely lead to a lot of support issues for me. And there's no guarantee that Yahoo won't make changes to the rest of Groups like they have to the members part.

True and true.

Based on comments on Y!GMF and GMF@ there are some groups who were on the cusp of transferring who'd be more than willing to take on inviting/adding their member addresses themselves. If the transfer mechanism could be used to get the members' content that would still be a big win for them.

The biggest support issue I can foresee (apart from the "what do I do about members" question) would be a need for post-transfer re-connection of members who joined later (by invite or otherwise) with their content transferred sooner. Maybe something operating during the join flow could look for that situation, but only if the information (original owner email address) is preserved somehow during the import.

GMF@ can try to help with the questions part, but not so much the re-connection part.

At some point, which may be now, I'll have to retire the Yahoo Group export system.

Or maybe going forward what's left of it needs to be a feature that requires an advance purchase of a year of Premium, as importing more than 100K messages does now.

Shal


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Yahoo Groups exports down again

 

Mark,


I mean, maybe? I've disabled the entire group transfer system again.

The red-box note that replaced the instruction page still says "Yahoo has made a change to their login system...". That would seem to be out of date for the current outage.

From what you've said though it sounds like it might be sufficient to disable just the Transfer Members checkbox in the transfer forms.

I think asking people to go through the entire process you outlined above would most likely lead to a lot of support issues for me. And there's no guarantee that Yahoo won't make changes to the rest of Groups like they have to the members part.

True and true.

Based on comments on Y!GMF and GMF@ there are some groups who were on the cusp of transferring who'd be more than willing to take on inviting/adding their member addresses themselves. If the transfer mechanism could be used to get the members' content that would still be a big win for them.

The biggest support issue I can foresee (apart from the "what do I do about members" question) would be a need for post-transfer re-connection of members who joined later (by invite or otherwise) with their content transferred sooner. Maybe something operating during the join flow could look for that situation, but only if the information (original owner email address) is preserved somehow during the import.

GMF@ can try to help with the questions part, but not so much the re-connection part.

At some point, which may be now, I'll have to retire the Yahoo Group export system.

Or maybe going forward what's left of it needs to be a feature that requires an advance purchase of a year of Premium, as importing more than 100K messages does now.

Shal


moderated Re: Yahoo Groups exports down again

Bob Bellizzi
 

Mark, I just tried the old app and it's still working on two groups where I'm not even a moderator on one.
But on the one I'm a moderator I get the entire email addresses of all.

--

Bob Bellizzi

Founder, Fuchs Friends ®
Founder & Executive Director, The Corneal Dystrophy Foundation


moderated Re: Yahoo Groups exports down again

CWGI Director, Brandy Brow
 

On 1/25/19 1:15 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
On Fri, Jan 25, 2019 at 10:08 AM CWGI Director, Brandy Brow <director.brow@...> wrote:
Will groups who already have the transfer email accepted and set to moderator on Ygroups and the transfer go-ahead given still be able to port or are they now stuck?

Unfortunately everything is halted right now.

Darn. I was afraid of that. Hoping for the best and that this frees up so you can continue transfers. If you do decide to discontinue transfers in the future, please give people a large lead time, especially if transfers work again for a time.

Thanks for all you do.

Brandy


Brandy Brow
Executive Director
Christian Writers' Group International (CWGI)
-----------------------------
Freelance Editor & Writer
"Medicine for Words and Hearts"

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