Date   

moderated Re: Improvements to the /sendloginlink page

 

The email said to reply

So I can’t seem to understand why

I still can’t log on

And my home page is gone.

If I’d clicked I’d have been a smart guy. 


On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 8:21 PM Bob Bellizzi <cdfexec@...> wrote:
Maybe it should say "Click the link, Dink!"
--

Bob Bellizzi

Founder, Fuchs Friends ®
Founder & Executive Director, The Corneal Dystrophy Foundation


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Improvements to the /sendloginlink page

Bob Bellizzi
 

Maybe it should say "Click the link, Dink!"
--

Bob Bellizzi

Founder, Fuchs Friends ®
Founder & Executive Director, The Corneal Dystrophy Foundation


moderated Re: Improvements to the /sendloginlink page

Toby Kraft
 

Hate to nit-pick here but the sentence that reads "... after that, you will need to send another email." - is misleading.  The user never sends an email, the user is clicking on a link on web page to request that a special login link email be sent to them by groups.io.  
Perhaps it should read "The link is valid for 60 minutes, after that, you will need to come back to this page and request that another login link email be sent to you."
Toby


moderated Re: Improvements to the /sendloginlink page

 

Hi Shal,

On Mon, Dec 24, 2018 at 12:00 PM Shal Farley <shals2nd@...> wrote:

In GMF we've been refining a "Quick-start" guide for logging in to Groups.io. In the process we've noticed that the /sendloginlink page is rather bare: 

Thanks for the great suggestions. I've made the changes.

Mark 


moderated Re: Removing members from lists for supposedly marking messages as spam

Chris Jones
 

On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 01:50 PM, Ellen Moody wrote:
This is the kind of advice I know I would not be able to follow. I have no idea how to switch my email provider. This takes know-how I don't have.
Ellen; I think you may have missed a major point. As originally reported it is other people, not you, who are being unmembered because of Groups.io messages being marked as spam. As that is the case the identity of your service provider is not relevant; it is their service providers, not yours, that are, or may be, responsible. I say may be, because it might be the individual members themselves who are inadvertently causing the trouble.

Can I refer you again to the Removed for Marking a Message as Spam section of the GMF wiki; if you look at the paragraph starting In the "User Initiated" case, (within the Mechanism section) you will find that it is perfectly possible for a group member to trigger their own removal simply by deleting a message from their spam box. It all depends how their own service provider has this execuitve finction configured.

There is nothing secret about anything in the GMF wiki and it can be freely copied into your own wiki, or a link to the relevant section put into a message to your own members.

Yes; the whole thing is a pain, and no - one here will argue otherwise. Having said that there is nothing we can do to control any Service Provider, or for that matter, control our own members. All we can do is provide guidance about how to minimise the impact of Service Providers' automated processes for keeping spam to a minimum, and that is the purpose of the wiki entry. It is (I hope!) as simple as we can make it (yes; I was a part of its creation) while sufficiently comprehensive to cover what it needs to. Unfortunately simplicity and comprehensiveness do not always easily coexist.

Chris


moderated Re: Removing members from lists for supposedly marking messages as spam

Duane
 

On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 06:51 AM, Ellen Moody wrote:
I'm not sure this is the right forum for this query/complaint but I assume if it's not I'll be told where to send my query/complaint.
This group, beta, is intended "to discuss the Groups.io service and how it can be improved" as stated on the home page.  For problems and other discussions, Mark has asked that we use other groups, such as https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum or https://groups.io/g/Group_Help

Duane


moderated Re: Removing members from lists for supposedly marking messages as spam

Ellen Moody
 

I have now learned (someone told me this) that my Internet provider is Comcast. Comcast is the only provider in my area unless I was very high tech and could set up my own arrangements and when my husband was alive (he had  Ph.D. In math, and had worked as a software program developer and manager for many years) even he said we were better off just paying Comcast. Huge numbers of US people are in areas where there is this kind of monopoly.

Ellen

._,_._,_


moderated Re: Removing members from lists for supposedly marking messages as spam

 

I know that there is nothing we can do about this, sadly. But I have to say that there is a certain irony to it. I can't count the number of actually spammy mailing lists I've tried to unsubscribe from, and whose emails I've marked as "spam" over and over again, and yet I don't get unsubscribed from those! 

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Removing members from lists for supposedly marking messages as spam

Ellen Moody
 

I don't know what you are talking about.  All I understand is I pay a monthly bill to Comcast who provides my Internet service. I have no understanding of any thing else. 

My computer set-up was originally "done" by my husband. He is now dead.  He died five years.  I don't understand most technical talk because I don't understand the terms used, what is referred to, and the verbs and nouns are often partly metaphoric.

The computer I had died 6 weeks later. I was able to buy a new one because my daughter worked in a place where the computer service people also had a business serving individuals. It offers IT remote service from the people who sold me that first "professional level" computer. i  could not begin to carry on without these guys. 

That first professional level computer died this past year, and I now have a new one from them (it's windows 10 but it has a menu from windows 7 and looks like windows 7) and again IT service from these guys. 

All else I know nothing about. I can follow literal instructions but do not leave out any steps and do not use metaphoric language on me.

Ellen



moderated Re: Removing members from lists for supposedly marking messages as spam

Gerald Boutin <groupsio@...>
 

On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 09:50 AM, Ellen Moody wrote:
This is the kind of advice I know I would not be able to follow. I have no idea how to switch my email provider. This takes know-how I don't have.  Therefore to someone like me it's useless. And I have a hunch my case is not unusual.
 
So basically you are saying the unfortunate people who have such an email provider  and don't know how to or can't switch email providers will continue to be thrown off.
 
I will so inform all three listserv memberships.
 
Ellen


._,_._,_

 

 


 Ellen,

Changing email providers can be as simple as signing up for a free gmail account.
--
Gerald


moderated Re: Removing members from lists for supposedly marking messages as spam

Ellen Moody
 

This is the kind of advice I know I would not be able to follow. I have no idea how to switch my email provider. This takes know-how I don't have.  Therefore to someone like me it's useless. And I have a hunch my case is not unusual.

So basically you are saying the unfortunate people who have such an email provider  and don't know how to or can't switch email providers will continue to be thrown off.

I will so inform all three listserv memberships.

Ellen


._,_._,_


moderated Re: Removing members from lists for supposedly marking messages as spam

Dave Wade
 

Ellen,

Like you , they should read the FAQ.

 

https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum/wiki/Removed-for-spam

 

which explains why it happens, i.e. its done at the request of their e-mail provider,

why its done . Because if its not done the whole of groups.io will be blocked

and how to solve it, basically switch e-mail provider, complain to their e-mail provider who is forcing this action on groups.io.

 

Dave

 

From: main@beta.groups.io <main@beta.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ellen Moody
Sent: 03 January 2019 12:51
To: main@beta.groups.io
Subject: [beta] Removing members from lists for supposedly marking messages as spam

 

Dear Folks,

I'm not sure this is the right forum for this query/complaint but I assume if it's not I'll be told where to send my query/complaint.  Increasingly -- it was just one person but now it's been three -- people are being removed from groups.io listservs for supposedly marking messages as spam. What actually happens is their misbegotten computer does this. I can see they are given an opportunity to resubscribe. But how irritating that must be. And some may not be sure what to do. Others why this happens when they know they didn't do that.

Could something be done to stop this? It is counterproductive for all individuals involved. If it were me getting such a message, it would remind me of Yahoo's bad practices. I really don't care what is said to be the general "good aim" for this kind of thing; the result is bad for lists.

Ellen 


moderated Removing members from lists for supposedly marking messages as spam

Ellen Moody
 

Dear Folks,

I'm not sure this is the right forum for this query/complaint but I assume if it's not I'll be told where to send my query/complaint.  Increasingly -- it was just one person but now it's been three -- people are being removed from groups.io listservs for supposedly marking messages as spam. What actually happens is their misbegotten computer does this. I can see they are given an opportunity to resubscribe. But how irritating that must be. And some may not be sure what to do. Others why this happens when they know they didn't do that.

Could something be done to stop this? It is counterproductive for all individuals involved. If it were me getting such a message, it would remind me of Yahoo's bad practices. I really don't care what is said to be the general "good aim" for this kind of thing; the result is bad for lists.

Ellen 


moderated Re: subserve "auto-follow replies" to "following only" #suggestion

 

Gerald, almost. I'm suggesting that, OR taking both First Message Also and Auto Follow Replies out from under Following Only. You would do the latter if they serve to override any mutes. I have not yet checked out whether that's the case, but my guess is no, because otherwise Mark would not have put "First Message Also" unde "Following Only."

So, basically yes, with that one caveat.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: subserve "auto-follow replies" to "following only" #suggestion

Gerald Boutin <groupsio@...>
 

I think I follow what you are saying, but not sure. So either I fulfill the "picture is worth a thousand words" saying  or my example picture sucks.



--
Gerald


moderated Re: subserve "auto-follow replies" to "following only" #suggestion

 

p.s. I'll say preemptively: even if "R" on its own (not as a subcategory under "F") makes sense because it is meant to override mutes, then "FF" on its own (not as a subcategory under "F") also makes sense, even though the member cannot of course have already muted the thread; because the first message in a topic may contain a hashtag that they have muted.


On Tue, Jan 1, 2019 at 12:34 PM J_Catlady via Groups.Io <j.olivia.catlady=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
The two main categories for advanced following preferences are "All Messages" and "Following Only." Under "Following Only" is a subcategory, "First Message Also." Following Only is indicated in the member list (and the member's group list) by  "F," and "First Message Also" by "FF."

There is another classification, "Auto-Follow Replies," indicated by "R," that I think may be both misrepresented and misapplied.

"All Messages" says "Every message is emailed to you, according to your Email Delivery Selection, except threads or hashtags you've muted." So if a member is subscribed via All Messages, rather than Following Only, and they just click on "R," it's not clear that R does anything - unless it is meant to undo any muting that the member has selected?

If the R restricts their deliveries to topics within which they've replied, then R should be a subcategory under "Following Only," just like "First Message Also." The members in our group with just "R" are receiving all messages - not just the threads in which they reply. At minimum, this is probably confusing to them and they probably don't realize why the "R" isn't doing anything (i.e., they're still receiving every message).

OTOH, if "R" can be legitimately selected without also clicking "F" (because, rather than filter messages, it overrides muted threads and tags), then it seems that "FF" should likewise be selectable without clicking "F." And it is not - it is a subcategory under "F."

So bottom line, I think that either both R and FF should be subcategories under F, or both should not be; and in the latter case, their function (overriding mutes) should be better explained. 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated subserve "auto-follow replies" to "following only" #suggestion

 

The two main categories for advanced following preferences are "All Messages" and "Following Only." Under "Following Only" is a subcategory, "First Message Also." Following Only is indicated in the member list (and the member's group list) by  "F," and "First Message Also" by "FF."

There is another classification, "Auto-Follow Replies," indicated by "R," that I think may be both misrepresented and misapplied.

"All Messages" says "Every message is emailed to you, according to your Email Delivery Selection, except threads or hashtags you've muted." So if a member is subscribed via All Messages, rather than Following Only, and they just click on "R," it's not clear that R does anything - unless it is meant to undo any muting that the member has selected?

If the R restricts their deliveries to topics within which they've replied, then R should be a subcategory under "Following Only," just like "First Message Also." The members in our group with just "R" are receiving all messages - not just the threads in which they reply. At minimum, this is probably confusing to them and they probably don't realize why the "R" isn't doing anything (i.e., they're still receiving every message).

OTOH, if "R" can be legitimately selected without also clicking "F" (because, rather than filter messages, it overrides muted threads and tags), then it seems that "FF" should likewise be selectable without clicking "F." And it is not - it is a subcategory under "F."

So bottom line, I think that either both R and FF should be subcategories under F, or both should not be; and in the latter case, their function (overriding mutes) should be better explained. 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: "follow" and "unfollow" dropdown for members using the group's Topics list #suggestion

Frances
 

Mea culpa. 

Duane told me how to manage “following” on my iPhone. Unfortunately, it operates differently than on a computer or an iPad and it isn’t covered by the Help. I am hoping it will go in the wiki on Group Managers Forum (GMF).

Frances


moderated Re: "follow" and "unfollow" dropdown for members using the group's Topics list #suggestion

 

Toby,
How self-referential!  ;p
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: "follow" and "unfollow" dropdown for members using the group's Topics list #suggestion

 

On Sun, Dec 30, 2018 at 01:45 PM, Shal Farley wrote:
I explicitly proposed it as opt-in.
Great, that would remove my concern. I don't like the locking option, but that's probably going to be a matter of strong opinions on both sides with no clear solution, meaning that either way is probably fine. :)
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu