Date   

moderated Re: tweaks to limbo status for member not yet approved to a group #suggestion

 

On Mon, Dec 24, 2018 at 05:28 AM, Gerald Boutin wrote:
So, yes, I've seen this one - a lot.
It probably has not gotten mentioned here in beta because most of us here are group owners or moderators and don't see it from the member's perspective of having applied to a group, but rather from a mod's perspective, where everything looks fine in terms of someone having applied to our groups. And it probably has not gotten reported to support, either, because most new groups.io members would not even realize that it's a bug, or if it is, that they should report it to support.

It occurs to me that it would behoove us here to look at things more from a non-moderator's perspective in general.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: tweaks to limbo status for member not yet approved to a group #suggestion

Gerald Boutin <groupsio@...>
 

On Mon, Dec 24, 2018 at 01:31 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
I'm beginning to think this behavior should be classified as a bug and will start compiling the info and reporting it to support instead of here. 
Agreed.

This behavior (bug) has existed for at least two years as I noticed it several times when Yahoo groups that I was in started moving here. I wanted to dump my old Yahoo email address and, at the time, it was easiest to just unsubscribe the old Yahoo account based subscription that was transferred over with the group and resubscribe under a new email address.

So, yes, I've seen this one - a lot.

--
Gerald


moderated Re: Add permalinks to Wiki pages

KWKloeber
 

Shal

In mediawiki (eg, Wikipedia’s and the most widely used and supported wiki platform) 
you don’t actually edit or delete a pagename  — You “move” it to a new name. 

eg, instead of how we live edit a topicname on a forum, we’d ‘move’ it to a new topicname. 

All links on other pages that linked to that original (moved) pagename is preserved and I’ll call it redirected to the “moved” page. 

It’s great because even externally posted, say an oldpagename circulated in a prior email, remains valid - no perma links needed, and the clicker ends up at newpagename. 

Everything can stay “common” names, no weird url types and the preservation/redirection is seamless - the renaming of the links is internally automatic.

I think how I’d split a page is make a copy, edit each as desired and “move” each to whatever new names is desired. 
At least I THINK that would be the way - I’d have to play with MW to confirm.  

As far as I know the only pagename condition to be aware of, is that the 1st letter will get capitalized.  So, s/v MyBoatname  
becomes S/v MyBoatname.  
Just a little quirky. 

TMI, but thought I’d explain how MW does things. 


moderated Re: tweaks to limbo status for member not yet approved to a group #suggestion

 

More info: 1. The "Your subscription has not been approved" banner appears at the top of my groups list immediately after I've visited my subscription page of the group I haven't yet been approved in - even though it bears no relationship to my groups list. 2. If I visit the home page of the group I have not yet been approved in, and if the banner appears (sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't), then if I refresh the page, the banner goes away - even though I'm still not approved in the group.

I'm beginning to think this behavior should be classified as a bug and will start compiling the info and reporting it to support instead of here. 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: tweaks to limbo status for member not yet approved to a group #suggestion

 

And I have since posting the below confirmed that the home page of the group does sometimes display the "You have not yet approved" banner and sometimes does not. Same with the subscription page. Same with my groups list. The only consistent thing is the text at the very bottom of the group's own home page saying that my subscription is pending approval.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated tweaks to limbo status for member not yet approved to a group #suggestion

 

I recently applied to a restricted group.

Days later, I am sometimes seeing the group in my groups list as if I'm a member of it, and at other times, seemingly randomly, there is a pink banner at the top of my groups list saying "Your subscription has not yet been approved."

It is not even clear which subscription the banner is talking about, since it's just at the top and not attached to anything, and does not mention a specific group. And even more oddly, when I click on the group itself, the home page appears with no banner at all, as if I'm a member. It's only when I click on my Subscription page for the group that the banner comes up - but wait: it comes up sometimes, but not others! And even when the banner does not come up, leading me to think I've finally been approved, when I go to the home page I see at the bottom, "Your subscription is pending approval." Unless I'm really missing something (always a distinct possibility), this is a holy mess and needs to be cleaned up!

Somewhat related to that: partly because it's taking so long to get approval to that group and partly because I'm having second thoughts about the group in general, I have since rethought my application to that group and am thinking I no longer want to join it. But I don't think there's a way to undo an application to a group. If so, it might be good to add that ability.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Add permalinks to Wiki pages

 

Ken,

Alternately, could page splitting, renaming, etc be handled as
mediawiki does? Can’t recall the proper term but links are preserved
(redirected?) Or would that be too involved in the coding?
I'm not that familiar with mediawiki (as an author), but that sounds like what Mark was suggesting (#3). I don't know how that works in the UI, but I'm content to leave that in his capable hands.

In an implementation with page numbers (my #1) how to handle a split would be up to the page author. He/she could create one new page for the "extra" information and link to the new page from the old one. Or make two new pages and edit the original down to just providing references (links) to the two replacements.

Shal


moderated Re: how to enable the payment feature?

 

Not even embryonic yet. 😊


On Dec 23, 2018, at 11:23 AM, Toby Kraft <toby@...> wrote:

I don't think that feature is live yet.  See -> https://beta.groups.io/g/main/topic/27200238#18670
And this -> https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/18909
Toby

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: how to enable the payment feature?

Toby Kraft
 

I don't think that feature is live yet.  See -> https://beta.groups.io/g/main/topic/27200238#18670
And this -> https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/18909
Toby


moderated how to enable the payment feature?

 

I paid for 1 year a of premium but can't figure how to enable group payments, where I charge my subscribers or ask for donations directly from my supporters. Is this feature live yet?


moderated Re: Add permalinks to Wiki pages

KWKloeber
 

Right on the nail head re: relying on complicated naming rules. It’s difficult enough to encourage “common sense” page names. 

From experience, relying on “proper” naming becomes a nightmare.  Eventually the timid just don’t post or the structure becomes a near apocalypse. 

Alternately, could page splitting, renaming, etc be handled as mediawiki does?  Can’t recall the proper term but links are preserved (redirected?)  Or would that be too involved in the coding?
One can choose to implement  the forwarding or not.  

Ken

Sent from my phone


moderated Re: add "changed posting status" to the mod activity search terms #suggestion

Marv Waschke
 

I misspoke. I was thinking, wrongly, members are able to change their posting status. I am a moderator in a group where the owner changes users posting statuses occasionally. The owner makes all the real decisions and I am only there to suss out the few technical issues. When I recently received a request to moderate a comment from a member who posts frequently, I went to the activity log to see how and when the status was changed, in case something was twisted.

The text in the log is fine, but the drop down for searching the event log is long and somewhat unwieldy and it took me more time than I thought it should have to find the "Postingstatus changed" option. I expected to find it with the options that start with "Change..." I was suggesting a very minor change, and the problem it would solve is likely mine and mine alone.

Ten seconds more thought and I would have held my tongue. :)
Best, Marv


moderated Re: add "changed posting status" to the mod activity search terms #suggestion

 

Marv,  I think I misread your comment. Revisiting your suggestion, maybe you were referring to the action taken on the member, appearing in the member activity log. Even so, I favor keeping the same term ("xyz changed pqr's posting status") for both logs. I think that's what's done for the analogous actions.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: add "fast forward" double arrow for member page scroll #suggestion

 

I agree with that too, Dano, and found the distinction between top and bottom awkward while working my way through.

On Dec 22, 2018, at 6:40 PM, D R Stinson <dano@mt.net> wrote:

I'm now finding that the scroll button to go to the next page does not allow you to scroll to the next "page of pages" - if it shows pages 1-17, for example, it won't let you jump to the scroll that starts with page 18. You still have to go one by one through each of the 17 pages to get to page 18. Before I got through page 17, I could remember, for example, that I left off on page 14 and the next time, upon entering the group, could easily click on page 15. But now, I can't jump to page 18. I have to scroll through each page before that.

I would usually expect a double-arrow button in a situation like this, allowing me to see the next "page of pages" (18 through whatever), and I think that should be added if possible.
I agree with your thoughts, J. As a related thought, I'd like to see that same group of pages scroll bar at both the top and bottom of a search page. If a person is looking for a known group of pages, why is it necessary to scroll to the bottom of the page first? Why isn't the page selection available at both the top and the bottom of a list of messages? It would be more convenient for the browsing I've done. Having one browsing button on top and another on the bottom just seems arbitrary and confusing.

Dano


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Add permalinks to Wiki pages

 

Mark,

I wrote:
...
Maybe instead of a serial number for the permalink, allow the page creator to assign a Page Name (which becomes its permalink) with a short text, required to be group-unique; explicitly distinct from the page Title.

Rather than Page Name, we can just be fully explicit about it, as is done for the Group Name, and call it the Page Address:



This makes it quite clear what happens if you change it, so like a group name it wouldn't have to actually be permanent. Changing it will have understandable consequences.

In any list where one can select a page it would be best to show both the Address and the Title, in the same way that the entries in the Publicly Listed Groups show both the Address and Title on the first line of the entry.

I'm not sure what the actual list of excluded characters should be, but I'd want to avoid things that must be encoded when displayed in a browser address bar.

One way to handle backward compatibility with existing pages would be to continue treat Titles as addresses also, an alias for the same page. When creating or editing a page one would not be allowed to use an existing Address or Title in either field. The only downside I can think of is that it carries the title-based addresses into the future indefinitely.

Another approach might be to give each existing page a serialized initial Address, with the title-based URL as an alias for that existing pages only. This would avoid breaking links while also not creating new aliases (title-based URLs).

...

So I guess those are two versions of my wiki permalink suggestion:

1) Treat wiki pages more like messages and assign each a serialized page number as its permalink address.

or

2) Treat wiki pages more like group names and allow the user to assign each a semi-permanent Address that is distinct from its human-friendly Title.

...

I'm not ignoring Mark's (3) "Treat the Title with more ceremony, like Wikipedia" version. It just doesn't seem as "natural" to me as making the Wiki pages more like something else that Groups.io already does.

I like the mnemonic value of (2), with the primary downside that it creates a little extra friction that might cause some timid users to shy from creating a wiki page ("I have to think up a good Address too?"). Plus it is another field to explain and have group rules about.

On the whole I think I prefer the simplicity of (1), even though it has the downside that everywhere you pass a link to the page the URL itself won't say what the page is about, you'll have to do that in text.

Shal


moderated Re: add "fast forward" double arrow for member page scroll #suggestion

 

I'm now finding that the scroll button to go to the next page does not allow you to scroll to the next "page of pages" - if it shows pages 1-17, for example, it won't let you jump to the scroll that starts with page 18. You still have to go one by one through each of the 17 pages to get to page 18. Before I got through page 17, I could remember, for example, that I left off on page 14 and the next time, upon entering the group, could easily click on page 15. But now, I can't jump to page 18. I have to scroll through each page before that.

I would usually expect a double-arrow button in a situation like this, allowing me to see the next "page of pages" (18 through whatever), and I think that should be added if possible.
I agree with your thoughts, J. As a related thought, I'd like to see that same group of pages scroll bar at both the top and bottom of a search page. If a person is looking for a known group of pages, why is it necessary to scroll to the bottom of the page first? Why isn't the page selection available at both the top and the bottom of a list of messages? It would be more convenient for the browsing I've done. Having one browsing button on top and another on the bottom just seems arbitrary and confusing.

Dano


moderated Re: add "changed posting status" to the mod activity search terms #suggestion

 

On Sat, Dec 22, 2018 at 06:07 PM, Marv Waschke wrote:
I'd vote for "Posting status changes" for both changes driven by the user and moderator.
The member (user) can't change their own posting status.

"Changed posting status" would fit with the existing log entry, and is also consistent with the rest of the terms by including the action (verb) that the moderator took.

I haven't searched for the conversation that Duane indirectly references, but awhile back, Mark changed a lot of these (at our request, as I recall) to fit better with the action taken. This one evidently got its log entry term changed but not the corresponding search term. So all that's left to do is fix the search term to make it match the log entry.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: add "changed posting status" to the mod activity search terms #suggestion

Marv Waschke
 

For what it is worth, I'd vote for "Posting status changes" for both changes driven by the user and moderator.
Best, Marv


moderated Re: add "fast forward" double arrow for member page scroll #suggestion

Cacky B
 

I'd like to give this a bump.
Cacky


moderated Re: add "fast forward" double arrow for member page scroll #suggestion

 

Shal,
Hey, you found it! At least we’re consistent. 😊

On Dec 22, 2018, at 2:55 PM, Shal Farley <shals2nd@gmail.com> wrote:

J_Catlady wrote:

So as a side issue, I am again suggesting this option/choice for yahoo
transfers.
https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/16503

+1

Shal


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

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