Date   

moderated Re: My focus for the next few months

 

Mark,

There are several other projects that will also eventually roll into
this, including the notifications overhaul, ...
Yay!

Shal


moderated Re: a PAID version with no footer links??? #suggestion

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 02:06 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 10:51 AM, Sam Hughes wrote:
Want a PURE email group, with no member ever learning there is an "online interface" whatsoever.
I don't think that's possible in groups.io. It really goes against the model.
Indeed.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again:  Why choose to sign up to use a medium, intentionally designed as a fusion of e-mail list and online forum, if you adamantly don't want one half of said fusion?

There are plenty of other options out there if you want one, or the other, but not both.  When you add to that the fact that no one is obligated to use either interface if they do not so choose, well . . .
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763 
The terrible state of public education has paid huge dividends in ignorance.  Huge.  We now have a country that can be told blatant lies — easily checkable, blatant lies — and I’m not talking about the covert workings of the CIA. When we have a terrorist attack, on September 11, 2001 with 19 men — 15 of them are Saudis — and five minutes later the whole country thinks they’re from Iraq — how can you have faith in the public? This is an easily checkable fact. The whole country is like the O.J. Simpson jurors.

      ~ Fran Lebowitz in Ruminator Magazine interview with Susannah McNeely (Aug/Sept 2005)


moderated Re: a PAID version with no footer links??? #suggestion

 

On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 10:51 AM, Sam Hughes wrote:
Want a PURE email group, with no member ever learning there is an "online interface" whatsoever.
I don't think that's possible in groups.io. It really goes against the model. Even if you have no footers, people can always log onto the site. Etc.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: a PAID version with no footer links??? #suggestion

 

There would probably need to be at least an unsubscribe link, or it would cause problems. If you want an email reflector list with absolutely no web presence, there may be better options than Groups.io available.

JohnF


moderated Re: a PAID version with no footer links??? #suggestion

 

Hi,

I’d say this is something that could be useful for premium groups.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: main@beta.groups.io <main@beta.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sam Hughes
Sent: Friday, November 2, 2018 10:31 AM
To: main@beta.groups.io
Subject: [beta] a PAID version with no footer links??? #suggestions

 

 

 

We sure would like "no footer links" whatsoever in our PAID group.

 

 

Want a PURE email group, with no member ever learning there is an "online interface" whatsoever.

Can G.io add a PRICE POINT option for this?

Al Guevara
For: https://list.groups.io/g/samhughesneighborhood

 


moderated a PAID version with no footer links??? #suggestion

Sam Hughes
 

 
 
We sure would like "no footer links" whatsoever in our PAID group.

 

 

Want a PURE email group, with no member ever learning there is an "online interface" whatsoever.

Can G.io add a PRICE POINT option for this?

Al Guevara
For: https://list.groups.io/g/samhughesneighborhood

 


moderated Re: Database ID# check boxes

Pamela Tatt
 

Dont know if this helps but I have set up my databases and have no problem with column size.  I leave the 'Display Width' option set at 0 (default) for each column.
Some of my columns have a lot of comment in them and these 'wrap' neatly into the column.

Pamela


moderated Collapsing "Advanced Settings for Email Aliases" section hides error messages #suggestion

Charlie McB
 

Problem: Collapsing "Advanced Settings for Email Aliases" section hides error messages.

This has to do with setting an Email Alias (from the Account settings page).  This is an offshoot of other recent discussions (here and here) but is a different issue.

Currently, the user has to click on "Advanced Settings for Email Aliases" in order to expose the Email Alias data entry field.  Once they make an entry and click on "+Add Email Alias" the section immediately returns to its collapsed state, leaving no visible indication of success or error.  Collapsing this section and hiding an error message is unexpected behavior.

Lacking any indication of an error, the unsuspecting user will most naturally assume that their entry was accepted and move on.  If their entry was not accepted for some reason, the user cannot see the resulting error message unless they know to re-expand the section.  Otherwise, they inevitably will be frustrated when they can't post a message from their "new" Email Alias.

Suggestion: Remove the expand/collapse control from the "Advanced Settings for Email Aliases" section, leaving it in its expanded state by default.  Error/success messages should always show after the user makes a change.  This should not be a problem given that the section's description and instructions are already quite clear.

Thanks,

-- Charlie


moderated Re: Hashtag and Topic reply to overrides

 

That will be awesome. I am convinced that about half our pending members never receive the notice with the questionnaire, and I've frankly given up trying to contact people offlist when that occurs.


On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 2:47 PM Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:
On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 12:19 PM J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:
On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 11:15 AM, Shal Farley wrote:
I haven't tested it, but if that is indeed the case I do wonder how that is achieved in the face of Reply All behavior.
It is not the case after all, you're right. I missed the little "+1" in the "To" field.
Anyway, this is very discouraging. In light of this, I can't use either the reply-to-sender or the reply-only-to-sender hashtag in my group.


As an aside, this is a big reason I want to complete the app and add unread message tracking (ie Groups.io Inbox). I cannot control a lot of the experience of reading messages with the various email clients. And I have no control whether an ESP decides to accept email from us (ie cox.net is delaying a lot of email from us right now), or mark our messages as spam. Having our own email client just for Groups.io messages will give users an option to have a better experience with our groups.

Mark


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Hashtag and Topic reply to overrides

 

On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 12:19 PM J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:
On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 11:15 AM, Shal Farley wrote:
I haven't tested it, but if that is indeed the case I do wonder how that is achieved in the face of Reply All behavior.
It is not the case after all, you're right. I missed the little "+1" in the "To" field.
Anyway, this is very discouraging. In light of this, I can't use either the reply-to-sender or the reply-only-to-sender hashtag in my group.


As an aside, this is a big reason I want to complete the app and add unread message tracking (ie Groups.io Inbox). I cannot control a lot of the experience of reading messages with the various email clients. And I have no control whether an ESP decides to accept email from us (ie cox.net is delaying a lot of email from us right now), or mark our messages as spam. Having our own email client just for Groups.io messages will give users an option to have a better experience with our groups.

Mark


moderated Re: Hashtag and Topic reply to overrides

 

On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 11:15 AM, Shal Farley wrote:
I haven't tested it, but if that is indeed the case I do wonder how that is achieved in the face of Reply All behavior.
It is not the case after all, you're right. I missed the little "+1" in the "To" field.
Anyway, this is very discouraging. In light of this, I can't use either the reply-to-sender or the reply-only-to-sender hashtag in my group.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Hashtag and Topic reply to overrides

 

J


Shal, yes, that appears to be the problem. However, I still don’t understand why ‘reply only to sender’ uses the gmail setting ...

Because you're composing the reply in Gmail. They populate the To and CC fields of the reply using their own rules and settings to choose content from the original message's fields (From, To, CC, Reply-To, etc.).

In the case of Reply Only To Sender messages Groups.io does not insert a Reply-To field in the original message, so Gmail (and other receiving email interfaces) would normally reply to the From address.  I don't think it would help in the Reply All case if Groups.io did supply a Reply-To field - I think Gmail (and others) would include that content in the reply but would likely still include the original message's To address (the group).

... whereas ‘reply to sender’ overrides it and creates a PM directly to the individual and not to the group.

I haven't tested it, but if that is indeed the case I do wonder how that is achieved in the face of Reply All behavior.

My guess is that it doesn't, that the Reply All does in fact return to the group as well, and it is the lack of a bounce that made you think otherwise.

Shal


moderated Re: Hashtag and Topic reply to overrides

 

Shal, yes, that appears to be the problem. However, I still don’t understand why ‘reply only to sender’ uses the gmail setting (whatever the person has it set to, even if they, like me, are clueless about the default) whereas ‘reply to sender’ overrides it and creates a PM directly to the individual and not to the group. This still seems problematic and misleading to me, but I haven’t had time yet to sort through the whole new scheme. If I’m honest, I may never have time and I’m hoping that at Mark will consider at least this particular issue at this point.


On Nov 1, 2018, at 10:03 AM, Shal Farley <shals2nd@...> wrote:

J,


But when someone hits "reply" by email from gmail (and probably other providers), groups.io should not be trying to send both the group and the individual if the hashtag is so marked, and that is what it does,

I see you found the Gmail option to have the default Reply behavior be Reply All.

If that option is chosen then the reply arrow at the top of the message does Reply All, and the buttons on the bottom are reversed (Reply All to the left of Reply). Reply All then sends the reply to both the From address (the sender) and the To address (the group) of the original message.

I don't think there's anything Groups.io can do about this Gmail behavior, except possibly to warn about it.

The only mitigation I can think of would be to silently swallow the message to the group rather than bounce it, but that would be a violation of email standards, and might well lead to more severe confusions. Modifying the original message's To address to be something other than the group posting address might help, but could also be problematic (e.g. the member might have their email filter for the group based on the To field).

That option (making Reply All the default behavior) is not unique to Gmail.
Shal


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Hashtag and Topic reply to overrides

 

J,


But when someone hits "reply" by email from gmail (and probably other providers), groups.io should not be trying to send both the group and the individual if the hashtag is so marked, and that is what it does,

I see you found the Gmail option to have the default Reply behavior be Reply All.

If that option is chosen then the reply arrow at the top of the message does Reply All, and the buttons on the bottom are reversed (Reply All to the left of Reply). Reply All then sends the reply to both the From address (the sender) and the To address (the group) of the original message.

I don't think there's anything Groups.io can do about this Gmail behavior, except possibly to warn about it.

The only mitigation I can think of would be to silently swallow the message to the group rather than bounce it, but that would be a violation of email standards, and might well lead to more severe confusions. Modifying the original message's To address to be something other than the group posting address might help, but could also be problematic (e.g. the member might have their email filter for the group based on the To field).

That option (making Reply All the default behavior) is not unique to Gmail.
Shal


moderated Re: Hashtag and Topic reply to overrides

 

..and for the record, I had neither box checked when I ran the test. Will try more tests later today. Seems like "reply all" might be the gmail default if neither box is checked.


On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 9:18 AM J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:
I just a gmail setting called "default reply behavior, reply or reply all" and will try to find time today to see how this interacts with the groups.io settings. This might be the key to the problem, but if so, it will not remove the problem in groups without trying to instruct everyone to set their gmail (or other) settings to conform with groups.io.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Hashtag and Topic reply to overrides

 

On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 09:18 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
I just a gmail setting
"just found"
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Hashtag and Topic reply to overrides

 

I just a gmail setting called "default reply behavior, reply or reply all" and will try to find time today to see how this interacts with the groups.io settings. This might be the key to the problem, but if so, it will not remove the problem in groups without trying to instruct everyone to set their gmail (or other) settings to conform with groups.io.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Hashtag and Topic reply to overrides

 

p.s. I did report this to support as a bug at least a year ago, but eventually gave up on it, thought it might be due to "disable other reply options," etc. So I'm glad it's coming up now.


On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 9:11 AM J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:
On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 09:02 AM, Bruce Bowman wrote:
Are you using Reply All or something?
No, and that's the issue. The user just hits "reply" and gets the bounce message. This is using gmail. Not sure what happens with other email addresses but I seem to recall that it was a universal problem in my group, before I stopped using the feature. People replying via email were just hitting "reply," very innocently. Then they'd get the bounce message and would start to complain to me, wonder whether they'd been removed from the group, etc. As I said before, I have not yet had a chance to remove the "disable other reply options" in my test group and try this there and see if there's the same result.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Hashtag and Topic reply to overrides

 

On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 09:02 AM, Bruce Bowman wrote:
Are you using Reply All or something?
No, and that's the issue. The user just hits "reply" and gets the bounce message. This is using gmail. Not sure what happens with other email addresses but I seem to recall that it was a universal problem in my group, before I stopped using the feature. People replying via email were just hitting "reply," very innocently. Then they'd get the bounce message and would start to complain to me, wonder whether they'd been removed from the group, etc. As I said before, I have not yet had a chance to remove the "disable other reply options" in my test group and try this there and see if there's the same result.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Hashtag and Topic reply to overrides

Bruce Bowman
 

On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 11:38 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
In particular, ‘reply only to sender’ actually causes groups.io to attempt to send both to the sender and to the group, and then bounces the email it sends to the group; whereas ‘reply to sender’ actually sends only to the sender. So maybe these designations should be reversed.
J -- I created a hashtag with #replyonlytosender in ShalsTest and am not seeing the behavior you describe.

  • If I simply hit reply using my email client, it automatically populates my own address. The group address is NWTBF.
  • If I manually insert the group address anyway, the one going directly to me arrives fine but the one to the group bounces with a 500 error.
  • If I click the link to view/reply online, the message editor comes up Private with no way to change it to Public.
Are you using Reply All or something?

Bruce

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