Date   

locked Re: Issues with thread renaming

vickie <vickie_00@...>
 

Carol, 

Is this the same ModTools Edward is charging mods $5.00 to use for each Y- group?

It it is, perhaps Mark can create his own Modtools. 
 

´
Vickie

 








From: "cshenk1@..." <cshenk1@...>
To: beta@groups.io
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2015 11:15 AM
Subject: [beta] Re: Issues with thread renaming

Hi Mark, sorry I think I just sent a blank.  New to Groups.io.  I can see the way to quote in another group.  This one must be HTML then and a manual copy paste is easy for the sighted.
 
> A solution that I think will work was just staring me in the face. Background: we have a thread object in the database that is separate from the individual messages. It has a subject, which is taken from > the subject of the first message in the thread. When the subject for a thread is edited, this is the field that is changed in the database.

> Right now, when we get a message that's part of a thread, we compare the subject of the message with the thread object's subject to see if they're different. If they are, we start a new thread (create a > new thread object, etc). But if I just change it so that it compares the subject of the new message with the message that it was a reply to, we should be ok. If the thread's subject is changed, that           > doesn't affect this.

> One question: if I change the subject of a thread, should we change the subject of any message we receive to the thread after that before we send it to the group? Say I start a thread with a message  > containing 'Subject A'. I then change the subject on the website using the Edit Subject feature to 'Subject B'. Someone replies to the already sent out existing message, which contains 'Subject A'.         > Before we send the new message back to the group, should we change the subject to 'Subject B'? I'm thinking yes. Thoughts?
 
(Manually added quoters).  This sparks a thought, several actually so bear with me.
 
This might be the hook that allows correctly typing an 'OFFER' to a 'TAKEN' if the taken isn't an exact match in subject line.  Has potential for us Freecycle folks.
 
I don't know if you worked much with that set.  We are a pretty sizable block.  The ones on Yahoo are not affiliated with Freecycle.org but most of us are affiliated with ModTools (Ed Hibbert) and a significant number of us also use TrashNothing in tandem with our Yahoogroup.  What happens in basic is a person posts on Yahoo (via whatever means, email, logged in direct etc.)  then it passed to Yahoo where ModTools picks it up and sends it to TrashNothing.  If posted at Trashnothing, ModTools snags it and tosses it to Yahoo.  Basically a dual homed single site.
 
Is there potential for us to use something like ModTools to do the same with Groups.io?  If so, I'd be willing to test it with a smaller live Freecycle already homed in both places.  If it works, I can see if my co-owner in the bigger Freecycle would like to try it.  I also have a Café that could be used for testing after a basic test was done. 
 
If this is old news and not interested, let me know.  If it's new and seems of interest, I can work off line with you, Ed, and Andrew Trusty (TrashNothing).
 
And here's a real Café also on ModTools but not on TrashNothing:  https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/VaBeachCommunityCafe/info
 
  Carol 
 
 
 
 
 



locked Re: Issues with thread renaming

cshenk1@...
 

Hi Mark, sorry I think I just sent a blank.  New to Groups.io.  I can see the way to quote in another group.  This one must be HTML then and a manual copy paste is easy for the sighted.

 

> A solution that I think will work was just staring me in the face. Background: we have a thread object in the database that is separate from the individual messages. It has a subject, which is taken from > the subject of the first message in the thread. When the subject for a thread is edited, this is the field that is changed in the database.


> Right now, when we get a message that's part of a thread, we compare the subject of the message with the thread object's subject to see if they're different. If they are, we start a new thread (create a > new thread object, etc). But if I just change it so that it compares the subject of the new message with the message that it was a reply to, we should be ok. If the thread's subject is changed, that           > doesn't affect this.

> One question: if I change the subject of a thread, should we change the subject of any message we receive to the thread after that before we send it to the group? Say I start a thread with a message  > containing 'Subject A'. I then change the subject on the website using the Edit Subject feature to 'Subject B'. Someone replies to the already sent out existing message, which contains 'Subject A'.         > Before we send the new message back to the group, should we change the subject to 'Subject B'? I'm thinking yes. Thoughts?
 
(Manually added quoters).  This sparks a thought, several actually so bear with me.
 
This might be the hook that allows correctly typing an 'OFFER' to a 'TAKEN' if the taken isn't an exact match in subject line.  Has potential for us Freecycle folks.
 
I don't know if you worked much with that set.  We are a pretty sizable block.  The ones on Yahoo are not affiliated with Freecycle.org but most of us are affiliated with ModTools (Ed Hibbert) and a significant number of us also use TrashNothing in tandem with our Yahoogroup.  What happens in basic is a person posts on Yahoo (via whatever means, email, logged in direct etc.)  then it passed to Yahoo where ModTools picks it up and sends it to TrashNothing.  If posted at Trashnothing, ModTools snags it and tosses it to Yahoo.  Basically a dual homed single site.
 
Is there potential for us to use something like ModTools to do the same with Groups.io?  If so, I'd be willing to test it with a smaller live Freecycle already homed in both places.  If it works, I can see if my co-owner in the bigger Freecycle would like to try it.  I also have a Café that could be used for testing after a basic test was done. 
 
If this is old news and not interested, let me know.  If it's new and seems of interest, I can work off line with you, Ed, and Andrew Trusty (TrashNothing).
 
And here's a real Café also on ModTools but not on TrashNothing:  https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/VaBeachCommunityCafe/info
 
  Carol 
 
 
 
 
 


locked Re: why notifications in HTML

 

On Thu, Feb 19, 2015 at 5:02 PM, ro-esp <ro-esp@...> wrote:

All member notifications are now HTML, even if the group is plaintext only.

I'm not sure what that means. What exactly is the rationale behind it? Send along pretty pictures?


Consistency with other features, for one thing (calendar event descriptions, etc). Also, some people have email clients that don't recognize and linkify URLs in plain text emails correctly. Making things HTML removes all doubt as to what's a link and what isn't.

Thanks,
Mark


locked Re: Sending spoofed email as groupname+owner@groups.io

 

On Thu, Feb 19, 2015 at 8:57 PM, Jim Poston <poston@vch-nv..us> wrote:
Can I spoof the groupname+owner address to send a message via email
to the group?

I know I can do it from the website, but can I do it as an email.

That's not currently possible. I can think of a few ways to implement that, but it would require some work.

Thanks,
Mark 


locked Somewhat OT: Download Y! Group Messages

 

Hi All,

Nothing was on TV last night so I decided to write a Chrome app to download Y! Group messages. I put it up at the yahoogroupedia, here: 


It's based on the Chrome app to download member lists. It's not very user friendly, and Yahoo may rate limit downloads, but it seems to work for me. Feel free to tell others about it.

Cheers,
Mark


locked Sending spoofed email as groupname+owner@groups.io

 

Can I spoof the groupname+owner address to send a message via email
to the group?

I know I can do it from the website, but can I do it as an email.

--
Jim
Poston@vch-nv.us

<< A wise man may look ridiculous in the company of fools. >>


locked New member email, links in plain text part

 

Just an FYI:

The new member email has a plain text part and an HTML part.

The HTML part has two links, one to the group and one to unsubscribe.  Unfortunately, the URLs aren't shown in the plain-text part.

They show up as "The group homepage is located here" and "click here and you will be
unsubscribed immediately."

--
Jim
Poston@...

<<                There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.                 >>
  


locked why notifications in HTML

ro-esp
 

From: Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2015 17:22:42 PST


All member notifications are now HTML, even if the group is plaintext only.
I'm not sure what that means. What exactly is the rationale behind it? Send along pretty pictures?


groetjes, Ronaldo



--
http://www.esperanto.net http://www.moneyasdebt.net


locked Re: Issues with thread renaming

ro-esp
 

On Wed, Feb 18, 2015 at 09:46 am, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:

On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 9:34 PM, Nikolay Kolev <nikolaynkolev@gmail.com>
wrote:

If you rename a thread, the old name still stays in the activity log,
which is not a huge issue. The real issue is that when people reply to
messages, the old thread name is used and thus a new thread is created
redundantly. This happens both from the web UI and via email replies.
Mark answered:
I can think of a couple different ways of dealing with this:

- When you change a thread's subject, have the system send out an email to
the group saying 'Hey, this is the new subject, start replying to this
email instead'
hmm

- We just disable the subject line check for threads that have had their subject's changed.
Yes, if I change the subjectline, it means I *want* the messages to be findable under the NEW subjectline, not buried under a bunch of other messages with the OLD one. [Ideally, changing is done in the "topic B (was:topic A)" format ].
Also, if I change the subject to an existing one, chances are I *want* the message to be listed under that.

Worse still: if I send two replies from the same digest, I want them to have different subjects. I *don't* want the second or third to be listed under the subjectline of the first one (open door? Tell that to googlegroups..)

Everything will work fine except if someone decides they want to start a new thread by replying to an existing message and
changing the subject.
?? do you mean "NOT changing the subject"?

groetjes, Ronaldo


locked Re: Issues with thread renaming

Linda
 

Hi Mark, you asked:
"One question: if I change the subject of a thread, should we change the subject of any message we receive to the thread after that before we send it to the group? Say I start a thread with a message containing 'Subject A'. I then change the subject on the website using the Edit Subject feature to 'Subject B'. Someone replies to the already sent out existing message, which contains 'Subject A'. Before we send the new message back to the group, should we change the subject to 'Subject B'? I'm thinking yes. Thoughts?"
 
I like it.  Will it work after an archived subject is 'edited', as when the change is a correction of a typo or spelling, for instance?
 
Thanks,
Linda
 


locked Re: Replying to poster off-list

 

On Thu, Feb 19, 2015 at 11:33 AM, <cshenk1@...> wrote: 

BTW, I don't see how to quote online yet either but it's probably on some list to add later ;-)


Quoting on-line works if your message type is Plain text or Markdown (there is be a button that inserts the quoted message into the reply box). I haven't added this for HTML replies yet for two reasons: 

- Quoting an HTML message is more tricky than plain text
- The wysiwyg editor that I'm currently using (http://summernote.org) isn't great when dealing with block quotes in HTML. Specifically, it's really difficult to split up/insert text inside a block quote. In gmail, if you want to reply to part of a message, you just hit enter at that point and it splits the block quote into two so you can reply easily. Summernote doesn't do that, and I haven't found an editor that does yet. 

Thanks,
Mark


locked Re: Issues with thread renaming

 

On Thu, Feb 19, 2015 at 12:32 AM, Shal Farley <shal@...> wrote:

>- Somehow we keep track of any subject changes and use those when
>figuring out if a subject line has changed. This is really complicated.

Maybe only the most recent prior subject line, rather than the full history of changes.


A solution that I think will work was just staring me in the face. Background: we have a thread object in the database that is separate from the individual messages. It has a subject, which is taken from the subject of the first message in the thread. When the subject for a thread is edited, this is the field that is changed in the database.

Right now, when we get a message that's part of a thread, we compare the subject of the message with the thread object's subject to see if they're different. If they are, we start a new thread (create a new thread object, etc). But if I just change it so that it compares the subject of the new message with the message that it was a reply to, we should be ok. If the thread's subject is changed, that doesn't affect this.

One question: if I change the subject of a thread, should we change the subject of any message we receive to the thread after that before we send it to the group? Say I start a thread with a message containing 'Subject A'. I then change the subject on the website using the Edit Subject feature to 'Subject B'. Someone replies to the already sent out existing message, which contains 'Subject A'. Before we send the new message back to the group, should we change the subject to 'Subject B'? I'm thinking yes. Thoughts?


Either way, this points back to a need for a mechanism to explicitly break and connect threads. Er, topics. Provides a means to repair any unfortunate consequences of whatever mechanism is chosen for handling Subject edits.
https://groups.io/org/groupsio/beta/message/502

Working on it. Splitting a thread is almost ready. Combining two threads will be trickier, if for no other reason than figuring out a good user interface for how to do that.

Thanks,
Mark 


locked Re: a suggestion regarding the invite/add members feature

 

On 19 Feb 2015 at 12:31, Steph wrote:

Why are you making the ability to add members only available for
people who pay for upgrades of their group?  There are not other
mailing list services that I know of that do that.  Yahoo even doesn't
do that.  That part is still free however not all of that feature is there
on their page.  Wouldn't making that feature available only for
premium members turn people away?
Just from my point of view, I have been looking for something like what
groups.io offers for a long time. I'm willing to pay for those features and
I'm going to pay to support the development, whether I get charged
anything or not.

The easy transfer process apparently is free, so you don't have to buy a
one-month upgrade. But it's probably enough of a deterrent to spammers.

And there still is the invite process. You can upload a bunch of
addresses, and they will be invited. ezpz.


As for the other side, have you tried to Add Members at YahooGroups
lately? As Shal pointed out, they've taken away that feature, for fear of
spammers taking advantage.

It's great that groups.io even offers the feature.


--
Jim
Poston@vch-nv.us

<< If your work speaks for itself, don't interrupt. >>


locked Re: a suggestion regarding the invite/add members feature

Steph <hsrsp@...>
 

Thanks for the help, since I have people who can only access their email via the phone, trying to get them successfully in. Thanks.

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Shal Farley" <shal@roadrunner.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2015 1:38 PM
To: <beta@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [beta] a suggestion regarding the invite/add members feature

Steph,

Why are you making the ability to add members only available for
people who pay for upgrades of their group? There are not other
mailing list services that I know of that do that. Yahoo even doesn't
do that.
Yahoo Groups no longer allow direct adding members at all. They gradually restricted the feature more and more tightly before they ultimately turned it off altogether. This was in response to abuse by spammers and scammers who were using Yahoo Groups to send junk emails. I suspect that's part of why Groups.io requires payment for that feature.

Groups.io's free features (invite and join) are much easier to use than Yahoo Groups, so it is simply a win there. Plus, the Easy Group Transfer feature is free. I'm not trying to talk you out of your idea, by the way, just explaining the way things are.

I hope that I sent this to the right place and it's helpful.
I think it is the right place and helpful. But I should let Mark speak for that.

-- Shal



____________________________________________________________
FREE ONLINE PHOTOSHARING - Share your photos online with your friends and family!
Visit http://www.inbox.com/photosharing to find out more!


locked Re: a suggestion regarding the invite/add members feature

 

Steph,

Why are you making the ability to add members only available for
people who pay for upgrades of their group? There are not other
mailing list services that I know of that do that. Yahoo even doesn't
do that.
Yahoo Groups no longer allow direct adding members at all. They gradually restricted the feature more and more tightly before they ultimately turned it off altogether. This was in response to abuse by spammers and scammers who were using Yahoo Groups to send junk emails. I suspect that's part of why Groups.io requires payment for that feature.

Groups.io's free features (invite and join) are much easier to use than Yahoo Groups, so it is simply a win there. Plus, the Easy Group Transfer feature is free. I'm not trying to talk you out of your idea, by the way, just explaining the way things are.

I hope that I sent this to the right place and it's helpful.
I think it is the right place and helpful. But I should let Mark speak for that.

-- Shal


locked Re: Replying to poster off-list

cshenk1@...
 

cshenk1@...

" No, Yahoo only obfuscates emails if the moderators set it to do that. "

Jim Poston said:

>Actually Y!G does obfuscate email addresses for non-moderators on their webpages, such as archives or "conversations".  That isn't a group setting.

I think I'm thinking of the digests and such.

 

BTW, I don't see how to quote online yet either but it's probably on some list to add later ;-)

 



locked Re: A question on character sets

 

Dano,

I guess part of what confuses me is why, if the message is composed
in this web page window, which seems to understand UTF-8, and it goes
to my machine, which also understands UTF-8, does it pick up the
circumflex A [ Â ] somewhere in between?
I suspect the problem happened right in your machine not somewhere in
between - if you read your email with an older email client which itself
does not recognize UTF-8.

That is, your message as it arrived to me had the header field:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
The email reader I'm using right now (Thunderbird with Eudora OSE
extensions) does recognize utf-8, and displays your message properly.

My other email client, Eudora Classic, does not recognize utf-8 as a
character set and defaults back to ISO/IEC 8849-1. In UTF-8 these
extended characters (beyond the basic 7-bit ASCII characters) are
transmitted as multi-byte sequences. So in the email body the Â, ÿ or ®
characters are transmitted as two-byte sequences. But my poor old Eudora
knows nothing of two-byte character sequences, so it displays each byte
as a character; and the first happens to come out as  for ® and those
characters near it in Unicode value.

In other words, nobody "picked up" the Â, the byte representing it was
in the message body from the beginning. Note that it doesn't matter that
my Win7 system is perfectly capable of handling Unicode - the problem is
that Eudora didn't know how to tell Windows to display them properly.

Other unicode characters (with higher code point numbers) may take three
bytes, four bytes or longer sequences to represent. Those have even more
"extraneous" characters when displayed by Eudora.

So my guess is that your problem comes about from an email client that
does not recognize UTF-8 nor know how to deal with it in a message body.

-- Shal


locked Re: Issues with thread renaming

 

Dano,

I agree on this. We have some subjects that see to be often repeated
in unrelated threads. While the current string should be able to stay
connected, I don't necessarily want it connected to the last time
that subject line was used.
That should be a less frequent occurrence in Groups.io than in Yahoo Groups. Yahoo Groups would add a message to a thread if either a) the subject line matches, or b) the header fields show a reply-to relationship.

In Groups.io the new message is connected to an existing topic only if both (a) and (b) are true. So if a member composes a new message (not a reply) with a common subject line, like "Help", his message won't get connected to any existing topic in Groups.io.

-- Shal


locked a suggestion regarding the invite/add members feature

Steph <hsrsp@...>
 

Hello Mark and Everyone,
I'm Stephanie (Steph for short) and I don't know if this is the place to put this or not but here is a question with a suggestion concerning this.
 
Why are you making the ability to add members only available for people who pay for upgrades of their group?  There are not other mailing list services that I know of that do that.  Yahoo even doesn't do that.  That part is still free however not all of that feature is there on their page.  Wouldn't making that feature available only for premium members turn people away?
 
I like to try things with all of it's features before paying for it and I have members who do not have computers who use an internet by phone service to read and write email but yet they are still limited of what they can and cannot do.  I was thinking maybe make this feature free and available for all moderators and owners and maybe put a donate button on the page? 
 
I hope that I sent this to the right place and it's helpful.  Steph

Free Online Photosharing - Share your photos online with your friends and family!
Visit http://www.inbox.com/photosharing to find out more!


locked Re: A question on character sets

 

So, when that gets displayed by an application that doesn't support UTF-8, what you get is usually interpreted using one of the old code pages, and you see the two character sequence ® (Capital A with circumflex, Registered Sign).

As an exercise for the reader, try sending ALT+0255, it should come out as 0xC3 0xBF (Capital A with tilde, Inverted Question Mark) on incompatible systems.

Interesting. For ALT+0255 my Win7 system gives ÿ (Small Letter Y with Diaeresis), which is ISO/IEC 8859-1, but Windows-1251 says that should be a reversed R (Cryillic Capital Letter Ya). Maybe Microsoft changed it.

-- Shal
Note: this message is composed in an email client that will send it in an 8-bit code page, not UTF-8
Thanks, Shal, for explaining this. I am understanding part of it, even though I'm not really that tech savvy. I guess part of what confuses me is why, if the message is composed in this web page window, which seems to understand UTF-8, and it goes to my machine, which also understands UTF-8, does it pick up the circumflex A [ Â ] somewhere in between? (I want to see if that circumflex A symbol stays since I put it in with an ALT code.) I'm guessing that somewhere in between is a machine that's not just passing the raw code through. Maybe it's the dread NSA trying to read our secret mail? :-)
Dano

ALT+0255 gives me this [ ÿ ]