Date   

locked Re: Issues with thread renaming

 

Mark,

- When you change a thread's subject, have the system send out an email
to the group saying 'Hey, this is the new subject, start replying to
this email instead'
Ick. And it likely wouldn't work - members are apt to read messages in order and may have already replied to the thread before seeing this message.

- We just disable the subject line check for threads that have had their
subject's changed. Everything will work fine except if someone decides
they want to start a new thread by replying to an existing message and
changing the subject.
That's probably a reasonable compromise. Maybe the disable could be for a limited duration (a few days) - replies later than that may as well start a new thread.

- Somehow we keep track of any subject changes and use those when
figuring out if a subject line has changed. This is really complicated.
Maybe only the most recent prior subject line, rather than the full history of changes.

Either way, this points back to a need for a mechanism to explicitly break and connect threads. Er, topics. Provides a means to repair any unfortunate consequences of whatever mechanism is chosen for handling Subject edits.
https://groups.io/org/groupsio/beta/message/502

-- Shal


locked Re: Subscribing via email

 

On 18 Feb 2015 at 18:58, Jim Poston wrote:

However, although I used gmail as the From:, I used an already subscribed address as the
Reply-To. Could that be a problem?
Apparently that was the problem. Changing the Reply-To to the gmail
address resulted in an immediate confirmation request.

The Reply-To must have noted and compared with existing members and
alias addresses.

--
Jim
Poston@vch-nv.us

<< Old MacDonald had a computer with an EIA I/O. >>


locked Re: A question on character sets

 

Dano,

I can enter them fin on my Win7 machine right on the Beta web page with
the ALT and four digits.
What happens when you do that (using four digits, including a leading zero) is that Windows looks up the letterform using that number in the Windows-1251 character set. So for example ALT+0174 is the Registered Sign ®
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows-1251

Then windows converts that letterform to its Unicode code point, U+00AE, which by no accident at all is 174 in decimal. That's no accident because the first 256 Unicode code points were deliberately chosen to be as compatible as practical with the prior popular code page, ISO/IEC 8859-1 (which is the same as Windows-1251 for most characters).

Then, when that letterform needs to be transmitted (as in email) its numeric value is converted to UTF-8 (Unicode Transformation Format, 8-bit). This is necessary because the message body might include Unicode code points greater than 255, which can't be represented in a single 8-bit byte. The UTF-8 byte sequence for U+00AE is 0xC2 0xAE.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UTF-8

So, when that gets displayed by an application that doesn't support UTF-8, what you get is usually interpreted using one of the old code pages, and you see the two character sequence ® (Capital A with circumflex, Registered Sign).

As an exercise for the reader, try sending ALT+0255, it should come out as 0xC3 0xBF (Capital A with tilde, Inverted Question Mark) on incompatible systems.

Interesting. For ALT+0255 my Win7 system gives ÿ (Small Letter Y with Diaeresis), which is ISO/IEC 8859-1, but Windows-1251 says that should be a reversed R (Cryillic Capital Letter Ya). Maybe Microsoft changed it.

-- Shal
Note: this message is composed in an email client that will send it in an 8-bit code page, not UTF-8


locked Re: Subscribing via email

christopher hallsworth <challsworth2@...>
 

It should work. Either your provider is blocking the domain or it's in your spam or other junk folder.

On 18 Feb 2015, at 23:43, Jim Poston <poston@vch-nv.us> wrote:

Do I have the email command syntax right?

groupname+subscribe@groups.io

I've tried to subscribe via email in that way and haven't received any
responses after a few hours, nor do the new addresses appear in the
group.

Do prospective members have to have a groups.io account first? It
doesn't seem to be required for invitations.


--
Jim
Poston@vch-nv.us

<< I don't care how hard you work, but how much you get done >>





locked Re: A question on character sets

 

Thanks, Shal -
I can enter them fine on my Win7 machine right on the Beta web page with the ALT and four digits. The problem comes as you can see below (above?). The character renders but is preceded by a circumflex A.
Dano
Except, as you can see [ ¼ — ½ – ¾ ° piñon ® © ] when I send it from the web page to the web page.
Dano


locked Re: A question on character sets

 

I thought alt codes were too old-school for Unicode. But it turns out that there's a registry key you can set to EnableHexNumpad, and that will allow you to enter Unicode code points (in hex) directly.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alt_code

Is there a way in composing a message to key in the codes for the
various other characters not on the keyboard so they can be used in
UTF-8?
An easier method (for those that don't want to memorize Unicode code points) is to use the Character Map application. That's under Accessories, System Tools in the Start menu. It is a frequent occupant of my recently used list in the Start menu.

-- Shal
Thanks, Shal -
I can enter them fin on my Win7 machine right on the Beta web page with the ALT and four digits. The problem comes as you can see below (above?). The character renders but is preceded by a circumflex A.
Dano


locked Re: A question on character sets

 

Dano,

This is your post that arrived in my email. Note the 'capital A with
circumflex over it' before each symbol. That's what seems to happen with
Y!.
No, that's what happens with an email reader that interprets the message using an ISO code page instead of UTF-8. The A with circumflex is 0xC2 in the Windows Western code page, and 0xC2 is one of the common lead-in bytes of a UTF-8 byte sequence.

I'm very familiar with this problem as my email client, Eudora Classic, is too old for Unicode; so I see this all the time.

I don't know what causes it, or why it seems to read okay on the Beta
web page.
It will read ok on nearly any web system (where unicode is the lingua franca) as well as in Thunderbird and other email clients that support UTF-8 message bodies.

-- Shal


locked Re: A question on character sets

 

Dano,

I have what may be a dumb question - but that never stopped me before!
I've used the Windows Alt Key Numeric Codes (ALT + XXXX on the numeric
keypad) for many years, but they don't seem to work reliably in UTF-8.
I thought alt codes were too old-school for Unicode. But it turns out that there's a registry key you can set to EnableHexNumpad, and that will allow you to enter Unicode code points (in hex) directly.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alt_code

Is there a way in composing a message to key in the codes for the
various other characters not on the keyboard so they can be used in
UTF-8?
An easier method (for those that don't want to memorize Unicode code points) is to use the Character Map application. That's under Accessories, System Tools in the Start menu. It is a frequent occupant of my recently used list in the Start menu.

-- Shal


locked Re: A question on character sets

 

Duane -
This is your post that arrived in my email. Note the 'capital A with
circumflex over it' before each symbol. That's what seems to happen with Y!.
I don't know what causes it, or why it seems to read okay on the Beta web
page.
Dano

----- Original Message -----

It's my understanding that what will appear depends on which character set
you have selected. The set that Windows uses by default for UTF-8 is the
IBM 437 keyboard. I do know that the cent sign ¢ (Alt0162), degree sign °
(Alt0176), copyright © (Alt0169), and mu µ (Alt0181) are the ones I use
the most and work fine. (I don't understand all I know about this!)

Duane


locked Re: A question on character sets

 

It's my understanding that what will appear depends on which character set you have selected.
The set that Windows uses by default for UTF-8 is the IBM 437 keyboard. I do know that the cent
sign ¢ (Alt0162), degree sign ° (Alt0176), copyright © (Alt0169), and mu µ (Alt0181) are the ones
I use the most and work fine. (I don't understand all I know about this!)

Duane
Thanks, Duane -
That's what I'm used to as well. I can create a message in Windows with them, even composed as plain text, and they look fine when I send them. (Don't forget Registered Trade Mark (ALT+0174 ®) or the fractions ¼, ½, and ¾ (0188, 89, and 90).) But for some reason Y! screws them all up. I figured it was something I was doing wrong. I'm trying to send this from the web site.
Dano


locked Re: Subscribing via email

 

On 18 Feb 2015 at 17:40, Mark Fletcher wrote:

it appears you started to subscribe using your gmail address, but that's
not the address you are subscribed with. Could the subscription emails have
gone there?
Yes, I used my Gmail address because I already used my common addresses as alternates.

However, although I used gmail as the From:, I used an already subscribed address as the
Reply-To. Could that be a problem?


--
Jim
Poston@vch-nv.us

<< Shareware: Try before you buy, not until you die. >>


locked Re: Transfers

Marlin47
 

On 2/18/2015 8:32 PM, Shal Farley wrote:
Mark,


At the other extreme I had proposed a more complicated scheme where Groups.io ingests all the content, but holds each member's content hidden until that member signifies permission to display it. That I think would satisfy both TOS and copyright requirements.


-- Shal

Shal, if the member gives permission for his message to be transferred and made available on an entirely new system, how can you cope with one of his messages being a "reply" that contains the original message written by yet another member who may not like the idea at all?

Just wondering.

Marlin


locked Re: Transfers

 

Mark,

Unfortunately, there are issues with moving the archives. Mainly that
you have to scrape them ...
I wonder if there isn't an API call that will hand you JSON content in batches, just as the Members list does. After all, those infinite scroll message lists have to populate themselves somehow.

(unless you have a personal archive).
I generally do, as MBX files, for the groups I care about. But that's only the message traffic. Files, Photos, Events and other content are another matter entirely.

And there are potential violation of Terms Of Service issues with
that as well. Same with Calendar/Files/etc.
True, but the TOS issues are all about permission. At the simple extreme you could take the owner/mod's word for it; after all, it is they who are party to Yahoo's (or Google's) TOS, not you. That may only be "safe" in a group with private archives; in one with public archives there may be Copyright law to worry about - "I'm not a lawyer" disclaimer goes here.

At the other extreme I had proposed a more complicated scheme where Groups.io ingests all the content, but holds each member's content hidden until that member signifies permission to display it. That I think would satisfy both TOS and copyright requirements.

For groups that are announcement only, or for which the majority of the content originates with one or more owner/moderator, just about any permission scheme will do.

-- Shal


locked Re: A question on character sets

Duane
 

It's my understanding that what will appear depends on which character set you have selected. The set that Windows uses by default for UTF-8 is the IBM 437 keyboard. I do know that the cent sign ¢ (Alt0162), degree sign ° (Alt0176), copyright © (Alt0169), and mu µ (Alt0181) are the ones I use the most and work fine. (I don't understand all I know about this!)

Duane


locked Re: Transfers

 

On Wed, Feb 18, 2015 at 4:24 PM, Frances <travel@...> wrote:

The group transfer is easy. It moves the member list only.

Unfortunately, there are issues with moving the archives. Mainly that you have to scrape them (unless you have a personal archive). And there are potential violation of Terms Of Service issues with that as well. Same with Calendar/Files/etc.


Mark 


locked Re: Subscribing via email

 

Hi Jim,

On Wed, Feb 18, 2015 at 3:43 PM, Jim Poston <poston@...> wrote:
Do I have the email command syntax right?

groupname+subscribe@groups.io

I've tried to subscribe via email in that way and haven't received any
responses after a few hours, nor do the new addresses appear in the
group.

Welcome to beta. Yes, that's the correct address format. I did a quick look at the logs, and it appears you started to subscribe using your gmail address, but that's not the address you are subscribed with. Could the subscription emails have gone there?

Mark 


locked Site Updates #changelog

 

Changes to the site today:

Redid how the web site handles and displays notifications and errors. There should be no more 'blank pages' if you access a page that you don't have permission to access. When you edit your profile, it will display a little message saying the changes have been saved. That will also show up in other places as well to make things more clear.

Mark


locked Re: Replying to poster off-list

 
Edited

(Sorry, haven't figured out how to quote when posting online.)


cshenk1@...

" No, Yahoo only obfuscates emails if the moderators set it to do that. "


Actually Y!G does obfuscate email addresses for non-moderators on their webpages, such as archives or "conversations".  That isn't a group setting.

Moderators/owners can set their group to allow members to hide their email addresses.  As I understand it, that will hide addresses even in emails, but then those members cannot post via email, and the entire group cannot use polls.


locked Re: Transfers

Frances
 

Jim,

The group transfer is easy. It moves the member list only.

Someone else will give you a more technical and detailed answer, I am sure, but I wanted you to know that your emails are getting through! You obviously did join the Beta group at groups.io

Frances

On Feb 18 15, at 7:08 PM, Jim Poston <poston@vch-nv.us> wrote:

The easy group transfer looks ... easy!

What will it move? Member list only? Archives? Calendar?

Are there offline alternatives to populate the archives?

--
Jim
Poston@vch-nv.us

<< 1912 - U.S. Income tax enacted to tax wealthiest 5%. >>






locked Transfers

 

The easy group transfer looks ... easy!

What will it move? Member list only? Archives? Calendar?

Are there offline alternatives to populate the archives?

--
Jim
Poston@vch-nv.us

<< 1912 - U.S. Income tax enacted to tax wealthiest 5%. >>