Date   

moderated Re: Language

 

The same error is in the suggested change. Needs ‘or’ before ‘gender based’

On Oct 10, 2018, at 7:58 PM, Sharon Villines via Groups.Io <sharon=sharonvillines.com@groups.io> wrote:

Re: Language
From: J_Catlady
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2018 20:28:11 EDT

On Wed, Oct 10, 2018 at 11:55 AM, Sharon Villines wrote:

There will be no racial, ethnic, gender based insults or any other personal discriminations.
Unfortunately I don't have time to proof-read the whole thing, but the sentence above stands out for its lack of the word "or" before "gender based." It's an actual grammatical error.

There would also preferably be a comma after "insults," but that lack is a matter of preference rather than correctness. The term "personal discriminations" also seems a bit odd. But those two are minor compared to the grammatical error.
And unfortunately, I didn’t write that sentence. I suggested:

Racial, ethnic, gender based insults, or any other personal discriminations will not be tolerated and can lead to …
Gender based should have a en dash.

Sharon

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: add mod choices "reply and lock topic" or "reply and moderate topic" #suggestion

 

Makes sense.


On Oct 10, 2018, at 7:48 PM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

On Wed, Oct 10, 2018 at 10:32 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
"if I am replying to a locked or moderated topic..."
I am discussing my experience under the software on the other site on which I moderate.  Moderators may respond to a locked topic and on rare occasion I do.

Even though we could moderate a topic in the manner that term is used here, we do not.  There is never a post-by-post review of any given topic, which is what "moderated topic" means here.

All I'm trying to get at is that, via the software, moderators there do not have any restrictions on the the topics to which they can respond.  That's just a way the software is written (or, perhaps I should say, is written to allow - as I had absolutely nothing to do with the initial setup of that site, so it could be how the site owner and admin elected to use the available options in settings).
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134 
     Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

          ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Language

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

On Wed, Oct 10, 2018 at 02:55 PM, Sharon Villines wrote:
Spamming, indiscriminately sending copies of the same message to a large number of people. is not permitted.
As an aside, this is a really restrictive definition of spamming.   People posting a single message, utterly unrelated to the group or ongoing topic, that is of a promotional nature or meant to drive traffic to a given website is spamming.

In a group related to, say, apple growing in northern climes, someone chiming in with a single post regarding testosterone boosting miracle herbs is spamming.

Most people recognize spam when they see it.  I don't think it needs to be closely defined, as it cannot be.

 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134 
     Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

          ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore


moderated Re: Language

Sharon Villines
 

Re: Language
From: J_Catlady
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2018 20:28:11 EDT

On Wed, Oct 10, 2018 at 11:55 AM, Sharon Villines wrote:

There will be no racial, ethnic, gender based insults or any other personal discriminations.
Unfortunately I don't have time to proof-read the whole thing, but the sentence above stands out for its lack of the word "or" before "gender based." It's an actual grammatical error.

There would also preferably be a comma after "insults," but that lack is a matter of preference rather than correctness. The term "personal discriminations" also seems a bit odd. But those two are minor compared to the grammatical error.
And unfortunately, I didn’t write that sentence. I suggested:

Racial, ethnic, gender based insults, or any other personal discriminations will not be tolerated and can lead to …
Gender based should have a en dash.

Sharon


moderated Re: add mod choices "reply and lock topic" or "reply and moderate topic" #suggestion

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

On Wed, Oct 10, 2018 at 10:32 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
"if I am replying to a locked or moderated topic..."
I am discussing my experience under the software on the other site on which I moderate.  Moderators may respond to a locked topic and on rare occasion I do.

Even though we could moderate a topic in the manner that term is used here, we do not.  There is never a post-by-post review of any given topic, which is what "moderated topic" means here.

All I'm trying to get at is that, via the software, moderators there do not have any restrictions on the the topics to which they can respond.  That's just a way the software is written (or, perhaps I should say, is written to allow - as I had absolutely nothing to do with the initial setup of that site, so it could be how the site owner and admin elected to use the available options in settings).
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134 
     Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

          ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore


moderated Re: add mod choices "reply and lock topic" or "reply and moderate topic" #suggestion

 

On Wed, Oct 10, 2018 at 07:22 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
even to have to approve my own posts.  It's an extra step I just don't want to have to take.
It just gives me an extra chance to imagine how the intended audience might receive what I've written. I sometimes find off-key notes in a post that way, and can correct them. :)
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: add mod choices "reply and lock topic" or "reply and moderate topic" #suggestion

 

On Wed, Oct 10, 2018 at 07:21 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
I just don't feel any need to keep myself on moderation because I'm the gatekeeper of moderation and am acutely aware of what's moderated.
I only do it to give myself a chance to edit my posts.
I agree with you on being aware of the responsibility of being a moderator.
And I, too, use the web interface most of the time. I use email basically only as a preview, and sometimes to respond when I'm out of the house.
But I don't understand what you mean by "if I am replying to a locked or moderated topic..." (emphasis added), because currently you can't respond to a locked topic. I do see another post by you below and will check to see if you amended this there.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: add mod choices "reply and lock topic" or "reply and moderate topic" #suggestion

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

I guess I shouldn't say "unmoderate," per se, but even to have to approve my own posts.  It's an extra step I just don't want to have to take.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134 
     Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

          ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore


moderated Re: add mod choices "reply and lock topic" or "reply and moderate topic" #suggestion

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

On Wed, Oct 10, 2018 at 09:59 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
It seems like the other way ("reply and lock") would be much easier to implement, though.
Perhaps, I really can't say.  I find the idea of moderators being "superusers," group owners being "super superusers," and Mark (or the site admin) being "God," as far as permissions go, with each level always having set privileges that include the ability to add to any thread under their respective control much easier to implement.  It also seems to me that with increasing responsibility it's implicitly expected that those having it will be more cautious and circumspect in their actions.  I know I am.

It's so interesting how one's own experience shapes how one views this.  As a moderator I do not want to have to "unmoderate" a topic, even momentarily, if I want to post to it myself.  It sounds like you're just the opposite.  I just don't feel any need to keep myself on moderation because I'm the gatekeeper of moderation and am acutely aware of what's moderated.

But, a lot of that also comes from the fact that I use the web interface almost exclusively, where the graphics that come with topics indicating something is moderated or locked are virtually impossible to miss.  If I am replying to a locked or moderated topic it's a very conscious choice.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134 
     Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

          ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore


moderated Re: add mod choices "reply and lock topic" or "reply and moderate topic" #suggestion

 

It seems like the other way ("reply and lock") would be much easier to implement, though. I don't know how difficult it would be to make exceptions to locked topics for moderators. I also would not want exceptions for moderators to moderated topics, because I myself want to keep myself on moderation. So in that case, "reply and moderate" would just be very convenient.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: add mod choices "reply and lock topic" or "reply and moderate topic" #suggestion

 

Yes, that's true. Locking a topic first, and then responding to it as moderator, would have the same effect.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: add mod choices "reply and lock topic" or "reply and moderate topic" #suggestion

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

On Wed, Oct 10, 2018 at 08:15 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
That's not related to this issue, although I agree with that suggestion as well. This issue is being able to lock or moderate a topic quickly enough, before anybody jumps into the conversation. 
The title of this topic is "reply and . . .".   That directly implies the topic already exists.   Being able to lock same, or impose moderation on same, then retain the ability to add to it as a moderator or owner gives the same end result.

If you're talking about "post initial and lock/moderate" that's a different issue.  But I'd say in way more than 90% of cases if you post a new topic and the next thing you do is lock/moderate it the chances of a "jump in" is very slim indeed (and you can remove it, if necessary).

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134 
     Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

          ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore


moderated Re: First pass at a group payments help section

 

Just thought of something else: Will groups have the ability to specify the currency? Say a group of Europeans wants to charge in Euro, for example.

JohnF


moderated Re: First pass at a group payments help section

 

From a member perspective, there should be a way to be notified that a charge is pending, and giving me a chance to quit the group and avoid the charge. Say a group charges $50/year, and I thought that was a good deal at first, then changed my mind and stopped using it after a couple of months. When the next year comes around, if there's a surprise $50 charge on my credit card, I'm not going to be happy, and might dispute it with the credit card company. Providing an automatic email warning me about the charge a few days in advance would give me a chance to get out and avoid the dispute process.

JohnF


moderated Re: Language

 

On Wed, Oct 10, 2018 at 11:55 AM, Sharon Villines wrote:
There will be no racial, ethnic, gender based insults or any other personal discriminations.
Unfortunately I don't have time to proof-read the whole thing, but the sentence above stands out for its lack of the word "or" before "gender based." It's an actual grammatical error.

There would also preferably be a comma after "insults," but that lack is a matter of preference rather than correctness. The term "personal discriminations" also seems a bit odd. But those two are minor compared to the grammatical error.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: add mod choices "reply and lock topic" or "reply and moderate topic" #suggestion

 

On Wed, Oct 10, 2018 at 04:20 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
Wouldn't it just make more sense for group owners or moderators to have permission to reply to any topic
That's not related to this issue, although I agree with that suggestion as well. This issue is being able to lock or moderate a topic quickly enough, before anybody jumps into the conversation. 
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: add mod choices "reply and lock topic" or "reply and moderate topic" #suggestion

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

Wouldn't it just make more sense for group owners or moderators to have permission to reply to any topic, locked or moderated or not, since they are the very folks doing the locking or moderating?

That's how it's handled on another site where I moderate.  Moderators can reply to locked topics and, in fact, get a big red banner telling them they have the ability to reply to locked topics.

That way you can set the status first and add your note afterward (if you want to add one).

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134 
     Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

          ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore


moderated Re: Moderator vs Manager

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

On Wed, Oct 10, 2018 at 06:54 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
On Wed, Oct 10, 2018 at 03:46 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
The moderator is also absolutely not an equal when they are exercising the role,
Absolutely right. I meant to say that as well.
I have actually seen people try to argue that this position is wrong and autocratic.  Well, I invite them to have a look at groups (and plenty of examples exist in archival, but utterly dead form) where thumbing one's nose at moderator orders was permitted and those who did so not immediately warned (if that, depending on just exactly what was done) and/or banned.

One can, although one should proceed with great caution, engage a moderator privately if one feels one has been unfairly treated.  But what one does not do is defy a moderator when they have said, "cut it out!," in one form or another.

That's what they're there for when such is necessary.  And following those orders is a part of the social compact.tha t

I do not believe in heavy-handed micro-moderating.  But if anything reaches the stage where I feel that stepping in is necessary then it is "comply or goodbye!"
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134 
     Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

          ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore


moderated Re: Moderator vs Manager

 

On Wed, Oct 10, 2018 at 03:46 PM, Brian Vogel wrote:
The moderator is also absolutely not an equal when they are exercising the role,
Absolutely right. I meant to say that as well.

I do have one group where I have made everyone a moderator, but it's unusual. It's the group for my block, and there was a former yahoo group where the moderator held her role over everyone's head, she was the only one who could issue invitations to the other neighbors, etc. I wanted a group where everyone had invitation power and felt like an equal. (It's still not really true, because as group owner I can make others moderators or not, etc.). But I think this is really an exception to the rule.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Language

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

On Wed, Oct 10, 2018 at 02:55 PM, Sharon Villines wrote:
Immediate suspension "of the group by Groups.io.” The message, the group, the member?
Of the member.  All rules I cited, except those clearly of an "overarching the site" nature, are applicable to the member doing thing X or Y.

Of course, if an entire group suddenly went south with its whole membership violating that rule I would simply presume that it could be suspended/deleted.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134 
     Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

          ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore

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