Date   

moderated Re: Footer variations in individual emails

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

On Thu, Sep 20, 2018 at 11:45 AM, Steve Bass wrote:
I can't imagine what earthly purpose the "Reply to Sender," or "Reply to Moderators," options at the Group Level would have if a group is to function as a group.
I repeat, at the Group Level.  I understand individuals might want to reply to sender.  What triggered me to start all this in the first place is the fact that when one receives a message in plain text format there is no convenient way to actually do just that.

But why you would ever want every response that anyone makes to go back only to the sender, which is what I take setting "Reply to Sender"  at the Group Levelto mean is what I cannot fathom ever doing.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134 
     Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

          ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore


moderated Re: Footer variations in individual emails

Steve Bass
 

The "Reply to Sender" turns out to be valuable when someone in the group wants a response that the rest of the group might not have any interest in reading. (Granted they could Mute the reply, a terrific feature!)

One of my groups is a neighborhood list and often a member has something in the garage they want to give away. A "reply to Sender" link lets the 20 people respond privately ("I want it!!) and not to the list.

Agree about "Reply to Moderators" -- not terribly useful.

--Steve

_____________________

I can't imagine what earthly purpose the "Reply to Sender," or "Reply to Moderators," options  at the Group Level would have if a group is to function as a group.


moderated Re: Footer variations in individual emails

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

Dave,

         I want to make clear that my response to Michael Pavan was not meant to imply that "Reply to Sender" isn't something one might want to do to an individual message, but that it would be insane for a group owner to make the default behavior when someone replies to a message in e-mail "Reply to Sender" as the default for the whole group.   What earthly purpose would that serve?   It would create a cascade of private conversations where there is, effectively, no group interaction.

         I can't imagine ever setting a "Reply method for the group," to default to either "Reply to Sender" or "Reply to Moderators," and, were I a group member, I'd kill the group owner if the choice "Reply to Sender and Group" were made, as that would create two messages back to the sender - one direct and one via the usual showing up on the Group.

         I absolutely agree with you that there are lots of times when someone might want to reply privately to the sender of a message that went out to a group at large.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134 
     Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

          ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore


moderated Re: Footer variations in individual emails

Dave Sergeant
 

Actual Brian there is one very important case why a poster should reply
to the sender, something which came up just yesterday on one of my
groups. Someone was offering a television spare part to another member
and told him to let him have his postal address - it could also have
required sending him payment information. This is the very sort of
information that most of us would not want to be made public in the
group (and stored in the archive for good measure). Some replies are
best kept off list.

And for good measure the member ignored my warning and sent it the
group anyway...

Dave

On 20 Sep 2018 at 8:08, Brian Vogel wrote:

I would think whichever one of these was set by the Group Owner, that
one is the default behavior when someone replies via e-mail.

I can't imagine what earthly purpose the "Reply to Sender," or "Reply to
Moderators," options  at the Group Level would have if a group is to
function as a group.  The "Reply to Sender" as default makes the group
roundabout e-mail, and the "Reply to Moderators," is some sort of weird
"everyone's moderated" status, but I don't even know what the moderators
would do with a message not really intended "for them" that comes to
them.  As a moderator I can't post as if I were someone else, nor would
I want to.

http://davesergeant.com


moderated Re: Footer variations in individual emails

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

On Thu, Sep 20, 2018 at 10:57 AM, Michael Pavan wrote:
All 4 options should be fully functional and operate in the same manner.
I would think whichever one of these was set by the Group Owner, that one is the default behavior when someone replies via e-mail.

I can't imagine what earthly purpose the "Reply to Sender," or "Reply to Moderators," options  at the Group Level would have if a group is to function as a group.  The "Reply to Sender" as default makes the group roundabout e-mail, and the "Reply to Moderators," is some sort of weird "everyone's moderated" status, but I don't even know what the moderators would do with a message not really intended "for them" that comes to them.  As a moderator I can't post as if I were someone else, nor would I want to.

Heaven knows I do not ever want a "Reply to Moderators," or "Reply to Group and Sender," link as part of the standard link cluster in HTML messages.  If anything, the "Reply to Moderators," link would be better identified, were such to be included, as "Report this message to the Moderators," but I wouldn't even necessarily want that.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134 
     Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

          ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore


moderated Re: Footer variations in individual emails

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

On Thu, Sep 20, 2018 at 10:19 AM, Dave Sergeant wrote:
A 'reply to sender' option is essential as some seem incapable of reading this in the 'from' line.
Or even a line that reads:   This message was sent by <fill in from address here>

The problem is, as you've noted, that there is no easy way for a plain-text message recipient to "go private" with the originator of any given message, at least in the e-mail interface.  The "Private" button exists for all messages in the web interface, but that's not helpful in any way to those participating by e-mail.

My big desire is to have something that will allow the recipient of a plain text message to initiate an "off-list" correspondence with the message's sender if that's what they want to do.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134 
     Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

          ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore


moderated Re: Footer variations in individual emails

Michael Pavan
 

On Sep 20, 2018, at 10:06 AM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@gmail.com> wrote:

I see no point in doing any extra work for "Reply to Group" as that's the default behavior when one replies to any message (not private, mind you) one receives from Groups.io.
“Reply to Group” may be the default setting,
however that is only 1 of 4 choices that can be set for a group in
Admin: Settings: Message Policies: Reply To:
“Group"
“Sender"
“Moderators"
“Group and Sender”

All 4 options should be fully functional and operate in the same manner.


moderated Settings, Preferences, Etc. #suggestion

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

The recent discussion regarding the footer variations has driven home for me, again, just how "spread out"/disjoint the various preferences and settings for Groups.io are.

I realize that some of this cannot be changed due to the hybrid nature of the Groups.io e-mail/web forum setup.  What would be helpful, though, is a bit of, "If you're looking for," location pointer text on the various preferences/settings pages.  A good example of this is for the the format one wishes to send messages in.  This is found on the following webpage (I'm assuming one is logged in), https://groups.io/account?page=prefs, but I could not find that again to save my life until Lena mentioned it.  On that page the preference in relation to this is listed as "Post Preference," which I also think is not precisely clear as far as e-mail participants are concerned.  A label such as, "Send/Post messages in the following format," with the HTML/Markdown/Plain Text choices would be much clearer.

It would be helpful, if on the Group Subscription page, there were a one line note along the line of, "For additional settings related to posting/e-mailing messages, see your Account Preferences page."  Similar notes, as appropriate to the settings page in question, pointing people to the "other pages" where controls related to the category they're dealing with on the current page are located would be useful as well.  I had forgotten entirely about the checkbox for, "I always want copies of my own messages," that's on the Account Preferences page (and only really applies to the e-mail interface, so it might start with, "If participating by e-mail."  Someone on a group I participate in was asking why they didn't receive a copy of their own messages (which I found strange, as I certainly don't need a copy coming in to my inbox of my own material) but I had no recollection of this setting at all.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134 
     Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

          ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore


moderated Re: Footer variations in individual emails

Dave Sergeant
 

On 20 Sep 2018 at 7:06, Brian Vogel wrote:

Personally, and I know this is not going to happen, I would simply
eliminate the plain text e-mail option.  It's a hold-over from an era
long gone now.  Even screen readers were long ago updated to be able to
handle HTML e-mail messages once these became the norm rather than the
exception.  
You may suggest that. I for one never ever send HTML mail and try to
configure my own group preferences to receive in plain text. Yes, I can
handle HTML, but always view in plain text by preference. I just don't
want all the fancy coloured fonts and silly graphics some people
clutter their emails with. Not to mention the security issues with
dodgy html links and remote graphics.

But the plain text footer options, changed after much discussion on
here earlier in the year, are somewhat lacking. A 'reply to sender'
option is essential as some seem incapable of reading this in the
'from' line. Reply to group is unnecessary as a normal reply does just
that. And 'unsubscribe' is hardly something I want to do every day.

Dave

http://davesergeant.com


moderated Re: Footer variations in individual emails

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

On Wed, Sep 19, 2018 at 11:51 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
I could do some work to emulate reply to sender/reply to group functionality through the website for plain text emails
I see no point in doing any extra work for "Reply to Group" as that's the default behavior when one replies to any message (not private, mind you) one receives from Groups.io.

It would be nice to have some way for plain text recipients to be able to do a direct reply to sender without having to post a, "Can you send me your e-mail address so I can contact you off-list?," message, which happens with some frequency.   I am not at all worried about the subject line being prepopulated such as it is when one uses the link in the HTML e-mail, as the vast majority of the cases I see is where people want to establish off-list contact but do not have any direct way to do so without asking for a member's e-mail address.

Personally, and I know this is not going to happen, I would simply eliminate the plain text e-mail option.  It's a hold-over from an era long gone now.  Even screen readers were long ago updated to be able to handle HTML e-mail messages once these became the norm rather than the exception.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134 
     Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

          ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore


moderated Re: icon for private-reply topics #suggestion

 

Through a hashtag set to private reply.

But that actually brings up another idea: the ability to set topics to thst directky.

And possible other options: the ability to set other topic attributes directly thst you can now set only via hashtag.

On Sep 20, 2018, at 12:11 AM, Marina <moderatore@biblit.it> wrote:

On Wed, Sep 19, 2018 at 07:33 PM, J_Catlady wrote:

But the
fact that a topic is private-reply only can't be seen until someone tries to
reply.
I didn't even know that it is possible to set a single topic as a private-reply only.
How do you do this?

Marina


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: icon for private-reply topics #suggestion

Marina
 

On Wed, Sep 19, 2018 at 07:33 PM, J_Catlady wrote:

But the
fact that a topic is private-reply only can't be seen until someone tries to
reply.
I didn't even know that it is possible to set a single topic as a private-reply only.
How do you do this?

Marina


moderated Re: Footer variations in individual emails

 

On Thu, Sep 20, 2018 at 06:42 AM, Steve Bass wrote:


In Account, Preferences, I'm set to Plain Text and I get the full footer
That preference is for sending messages from groups.io website,
not for receiving messages.


moderated Re: Footer variations in individual emails

 

On Wed, Sep 19, 2018 at 6:01 PM Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:
In my specific case, I swore I remembered the "Reply to Sender" link, whether in full click-through "regalia" in HTML messages, or in label-link pair in plain text, was there.

Plain text messages by definition don't support links. The fact that some things are clickable in a plain text message is purely a function of the email client looking for things that look like URLs and then making them clickable. Mailto links do not work in plain text, which is why plain text footers are different from HTML footers. I could do some work to emulate reply to sender/reply to group functionality through the website for plain text emails, but it's never been the case that that functionality has been in plain text footers.

Thanks,
Mark 


moderated Re: Footer variations in individual emails

Bob Bellizzi
 

My "collecter" is still operating.  I didn't start this topic until I had 1 message of each type from the same person to my test email address
I'm going to wait till I have one or more of each from the same originator to my test subscription before proceeding with this.

I don't think Mark really understands that it isn't the font it's the links that concern us
Links to a particular recipient should be consistent, not vary dependent on the message text format
--

Bob Bellizzi

Founder, Fuchs Friends ®
Founder & Executive Director, The Corneal Dystrophy Foundation


moderated Re: Footer variations in individual emails

Steve Bass
 

In Account, Preferences, I'm set to Plain Text and I get the full footer:

Groups.io Links:

You receive all messages sent to this group.

View/Reply Online (#18375) | Reply To Group | Reply To Sender | Mute This Topic | New Topic

Your Subscription | Contact Group Owner | Unsubscribe

________________________________
In my specific case, I swore I remembered the "Reply to Sender" link, whether in full click-through "regalia" in HTML messages, or in label-link pair in plain text, was there.If Mark can give me a way to search my own mail for individual messages from groups.io by either HTML or plain text format I can check to see what I got "way back when," but I could have sworn that the standard link cluster for:  View/Reply Online, Reply to Group, Reply to Sender, Mute this Topic, New Topicwas always presented, whether the mail was in HTML format or Plain Text format.  Maybe I'm wrong, but if it isn't it could be.--


moderated Re: Footer variations in individual emails

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

In my specific case, I swore I remembered the "Reply to Sender" link, whether in full click-through "regalia" in HTML messages, or in label-link pair in plain text, was there.

If Mark can give me a way to search my own mail for individual messages from groups.io by either HTML or plain text format I can check to see what I got "way back when," but I could have sworn that the standard link cluster for:  View/Reply Online, Reply to Group, Reply to Sender, Mute this Topic, New Topic
was always presented, whether the mail was in HTML format or Plain Text format.  Maybe I'm wrong, but if it isn't it could be.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134 
     Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

          ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore


moderated Re: Footer variations in individual emails

Bob Bellizzi
 

Mark,
As Brian said, shouldn't the links be identical regardless of font, etc?
People who receive individual posts via email and don't wish to post via groups.io
should receive links appropriate to this method of receiving messages.
A Reply to that takes the pure email member to groups.io will only give them a screen with a bunch of links for logging in.
Confusion!
--

Bob Bellizzi

Founder, Fuchs Friends ®
Founder & Executive Director, The Corneal Dystrophy Foundation


Re: setting to moderate every thread a member starts #suggestion

 

On second thought maybe I like Gerald's suggested change. It serves to contrast the two statuses very clearly. 

On Wed, Sep 19, 2018 at 5:05 PM J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

On Wed, Sep 19, 2018 at 04:37 PM, Gerald Boutin wrote:
moderate all messages of every topic this person starts
Since a "moderated topic" is used elsewhere, I would keep it as is and not make this change.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Footer variations in individual emails

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

Mark,

             Aren't all of the same links supposed to be in the plain text footer, but as label - link pairs, as you can't do click through?

             It makes no sense to me to do this for two of them but not the rest.

--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134 
     Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

          ~ H.L. Mencken, AKA The Sage of Baltimore

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