Received from Duane at 9/17/2018 01:46 PM UTC:

On Mon, Sep 17, 2018 at 12:36 AM, YT9TP - Pedja wrote:

It is not practical that admin has to manually pay attention when someone is banned and then manually unban.

I would consider that to be a normal part of a moderator's duties.

Amen!!!

I don't think there's any substitute for direct contact with members who behave so badly that suspension or banning - two entirely different things - are being considered.

Jim H

JohnF,

If you’re talking about which parts of the group they have access to, etc., then you’re not talking about removing them, let alone banning them. You’re talking about some sort of temporary suspension.

A lot of this is semantics (what do you and the OP mean by ‘ban’). But in groups.io, ‘ban’ means they’re removed and can’t even reapply for membership. And if and when their membership is restored, they’re starting from zero and treated like a brand-new member (except that their Activity History is not wiped out). So I think what we’re all really talking about is a temporary ‘suspension’ of some sort, and for clarity in this discussion I would suggest sticking to that term. Because ‘ban’ has a specific meaning here.

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

I agree 100% with Duane on this.

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

I have seen temporary bans used effectively in general discourse forums where one or two members start posting in a heated discussion, and they really just need some time to calm down. It turns off their ability to post for a couple of days without locking threads for everyone, and when the time expires, they're automatically able to post again. If they start misbehaving again, they can be banned for longer, or eventually, you just ban them permanently.

If this feature is added to Groups.io, though, you have to ask how much this ban affects. Are they also banned from subgroups? Can they still upload files and photos? Can they write to the Wiki? Can they reply privately to messages through the web? Do they still get emails if they want them, which would allow them to reply privately directly, which Groups.io couldn't stop? Can they enter chats or schedule things in the calendar? By the time you think through all that, it might just be easier to moderate the members and approve their posts, removing their moderation when they seem calmer.

JohnF

On Mon, Sep 17, 2018 at 12:36 AM, YT9TP - Pedja wrote:

Temporary banning is actually effective measure to let people know that
they have to behave properly.

For 'problem' users, I put them on moderation and send them the Group Guidelines.  Very effective since their posts won't make it to the group unless I approve them, and I can reject one (or more) with a reason, if I choose to do so.

It is not practical that admin has to manually pay attention when
someone is banned and then manually unban.

I would consider that to be a normal part of a moderator's duties.

Duane

On Sun, Sep 16, 2018 at 10:43 PM, YT9TP - Pedja wrote:

it actually may be the same functionality if we are able to set message explaining reason why member is suspended

A lot of this is semantics. And there is no required user notification for when they're banned or even removed from a group - each group can already set its own notification, or have none. I assume "suspended" would be the same way.

The functionality of suspension would be similar to removal or banning, but not exactly the same. A banned or removed member would, upon reinstatement, receive the group's welcome notice (and guidelines if those are sent out upon join), whereas a suspended member would simply not have access to the group's content or be able to post during suspension. The reason I suggested the suspension is exactly that: they would not be treated as a brand new member upon reinstatement. A banned member has the further difference that they can't even reapply to the group (as opposed to a removed member). They're all slightly different. 

As for what constitutes a punishment vs. warning vs. whatever, that's just a matter of interpretation and semantics.

The suspension idea would have to be hashed out as to whether reinstatement or removal would be automatic after some period of time. You can see that conversation in the thread I posted a link to. 

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

On 17.09.2018 04:03, J_Catlady wrote:

I agree with Duane that I would never want a temporary ban. However, maybe you mean something like "suspend membership," which I recently suggested here?
https://beta.groups.io/g/main/topic/suspend_membership_action/25140223?p=,,,100,0,0,0::recentpostdate%2Fsticky,,,100,2,0,25140223

Sure it can be done that way too.

But suspended membership is more likely administrative measure but ban is punishment measure. Difference is in the message user gets when his access is limited or when he tries to post to the group.

For an example: if someone do not extend his membership in organization then he is suspended and he gets notice that reason is membership not extended. If someone acts badly then he is is banned and message is that he behaved badly.

That said, it actually may be the same functionality if we are able to set message explaining reason why member is suspended.


--
73,
Pedja YT9TP

On 17.09.2018 01:10, Duane wrote:

You can easily un-ban a person if you change your mind.  (I would never do so because anyone that is banned will never be allowed back.)  No reason that I can see to use valuable programming time on something like this.

Its not that black and white.

Temporary banning is actually effective measure to let people know that they have to behave properly.

Some call it temporary banning, some call it warnings.

It is not practical that admin has to manually pay attention when someone is banned and then manually unban.

--
73,
Pedja YT9TP

Checkout:
https://pedja.supurovic.net/
https://yu1abh.uzice.net/
https://www.facebook.com/yu1abh/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/yu1abh.konstruktori/
http://www.radio-amater.rs/

I agree with Duane that I would never want a temporary ban. However, maybe you mean something like "suspend membership," which I recently suggested here?
https://beta.groups.io/g/main/topic/suspend_membership_action/25140223?p=,,,100,0,0,0::recentpostdate%2Fsticky,,,100,2,0,25140223

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

This request is for the ability to unmoderate a topic, meaning that every post in the topic would not require approval, even in a moderated group, and even by members on moderated status. It could be a hashtag attribute that could be applied to a thread.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

You can easily un-ban a person if you change your mind.  (I would never do so because anyone that is banned will never be allowed back.)  No reason that I can see to use valuable programming time on something like this.

Duane

When Member List is downloaded it does not contain Notes info. It would be very useful to have it as it is used to store additional info about user.

I am aware that notes is multi line data which may cause issues with CVS export format, but I guess it would not be hard to resolve it by replacing newline characters with some identiificator.

It would be good to have an option to temporarily ban member, meaning ban would be automatically removed after set period expires.

I agree but I need to have nonchangeable URL as this links may be posted in lots of places and it is not possible not practical to track and update them with each file update.

In WordPress site, which I maintain, I have download plugin that allows me to use fixed download link but when accessed it redirects to file name that contains version information. That provides me the best of both: fixed download link and file is saved containing versioned name.

Mark,

We have the new badge for virus-laden messages in pending, and the older one for non-subscriber messages.

A GMF member has "many" messages arriving in pending, and he does not think they should be. We've enumerated all the causes we can think of, but he denies that any of them apply to the messages pending in his group.
https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum/message/11774

This isn't the first time the question has come up, but usually we've been able to identify the reason. Even so, this got me to thinking that maybe, somewhere in the pending list, or when you open the message, and/or in the pending message notice, it would be helpful if the condition that caused this message to be held pending were listed.

Maybe not as prominently as a badge, as for virus and non-subscriber, but some indication that a group mod can use to figure out what needs adjustment if he feels the message shouldn't have been held pending.

Shal

Changes to the site this week:

• NEW: Add the group subject tag to the subject of private replies.
• NEW: When direct adding people to a parent group and subgroups, only send out one direct add notification to each member.
• CHANGE: Added text to banner that is displayed when invites or direct adds need to be approved to hopefully explain things better.
• INTERNAL: Added support for postgresql integer arrays.
• INTERNAL: Upgraded the postgresql go package.
• BUGFIX: There was a bug in the subgroup display page when categories are set up that could cause groups in the same category to not be displayed together.
• CHANGE: On the pending message page, display the 'Ban Sender' even for existing members.
• BUGFIX: For some reason, Google lost our geocode API key, which prevented the database map view from working. Had to recreate the key.
• CHANGE: When rejecting a pending subscription by email, ignore the request if the subscription is not, in fact, pending (ie it's been approved already).
• NEW: New group setting, Viruses, to set whether messages with viruses are blocked or moderated.
• API: New group field: HandleVirus
• CHANGE: Do not log a change in user or display name in the activity log of any group the user is banned from.
• CHANGE: In activity log, change "Rejected message" to "Message rejected".
• BUGFIX: Pending subscriptions older than two weeks were not being deleted.

Have a good weekend everyone.

Mark

That is great, thanks Mark.  Will this apply to the transfers from Yahoo Groups too? If not, hint, hint
Thanks
Beth

Awesome, thanks, Mark!
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu

I just encountered another use case this morning. Our group is a science-based group on a cat disease, and while neutral discussion of unproven supplements is allowed to some extent, people are not allowed to make unproven statements about their effectiveness or recommend them if unproven, etc.

There are certain group members who have to restrain themselves in order to adhere to this rule (they're into supplements) and who tend to start threads about all kinds of unproven cures. These threads can then take off down the rabbit hole, into extreme speculation and misinformation about the supplements, including by members other than the member who started the thread. This can cause future readers to read the inaccurate statements and take them as fact. (I actually have sen instances of this. A group member will post, "I saw that xyz supplement is good for the liver" or whatever and start using it.)

This morning, one such group member - and she was fairly predictable from the start - started such a thread, and I had to (belatedly) put it on moderation. I have put the group member herself on mod, but what I'd really prefer to do is put all threads she starts on mod, because they tend to take off down the rabbit hole. I don't want to have to moderate every post of hers in other people's threads. Just hers.
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu