Date   

moderated Re: #activitylog - Owner changes not recorded

 

On Mon, Sep 3, 2018 at 09:50 AM, Chris Jones wrote:
I have seen that "via email" in one or two Activity Log entries as well. and would also be interested in knowing details of the process because I cannot see "how" either.
I explained it a couple of messages back, as well as in my first message in this thread. It's "harvested" from the name in the email address if the display name has not already been set.
 
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: #activitylog - Owner changes not recorded

Chris Jones
 

On Mon, Sep 3, 2018 at 05:38 PM, Tom Vail wrote:
So it appears to me to be the logging is not recorded when done as a function of the owner/moderator privileges, but is done when changes are done through the individual's subscription tab.
I have checked back to the point in time when I and another moderator of a group chaned our display names "via the web". Both changes appear in the Activity Log.

J, you mentioned a DN change being logged when the changes are done via email, but I can find no email command available to change the display name?  Can you point me to it?
I have seen that "via email" in one or two Activity Log entries as well. and would also be interested in knowing details of the process because I cannot see "how" either.

Chris


moderated Re: #activitylog - Owner changes not recorded

 

ps the log entry for the email action reads ‘set display name via email,’ not ‘changed’


On Sep 3, 2018, at 9:46 AM, J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

The email change happens the first time a member posts to the group via email. If (and only if) no display name has already been explicitly set via the web, groups.io harvests the name from the email and slaps it into the display name.

I think you’re right about the rest of it.


On Sep 3, 2018, at 9:38 AM, Tom Vail <tom@...> wrote:

Here is what I think is happening.  If a member changes their display name from their own subscription tab, it gets logged.  The same with an owner/moderator, if done through their own subscription tab.  But if an owner/moderator makes the same change under the functions of the Admin tab, they are not logged.  So it appears to me to be the logging is not recorded when done as a function of the owner/moderator privileges, but is done when changes are done through the individual's subscription tab.

J, you mentioned a DN change being logged when the changes are done via email, but I can find no email command available to change the display name?  Can you point me to it?

Peace,
Tom

--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: #activitylog - Owner changes not recorded

 

The email change happens the first time a member posts to the group via email. If (and only if) no display name has already been explicitly set via the web, groups.io harvests the name from the email and slaps it into the display name.

I think you’re right about the rest of it.


On Sep 3, 2018, at 9:38 AM, Tom Vail <tom@...> wrote:

Here is what I think is happening.  If a member changes their display name from their own subscription tab, it gets logged.  The same with an owner/moderator, if done through their own subscription tab.  But if an owner/moderator makes the same change under the functions of the Admin tab, they are not logged.  So it appears to me to be the logging is not recorded when done as a function of the owner/moderator privileges, but is done when changes are done through the individual's subscription tab.

J, you mentioned a DN change being logged when the changes are done via email, but I can find no email command available to change the display name?  Can you point me to it?

Peace,
Tom

--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: #activitylog - Owner changes not recorded

Tom Vail
 

Here is what I think is happening.  If a member changes their display name from their own subscription tab, it gets logged.  The same with an owner/moderator, if done through their own subscription tab.  But if an owner/moderator makes the same change under the functions of the Admin tab, they are not logged.  So it appears to me to be the logging is not recorded when done as a function of the owner/moderator privileges, but is done when changes are done through the individual's subscription tab.

J, you mentioned a DN change being logged when the changes are done via email, but I can find no email command available to change the display name?  Can you point me to it?

Peace,
Tom


moderated Re: #activitylog - Owner changes not recorded

 

Ok, I figured out what's happening. It turns out that if a member changes his or her own display name, then it is not logged if that member happens to be a moderator. So this seems to be a major gap that needs filling. It's not only that a moderator changing a member's display name is not logged: it's that a moderator changing their OWN display name is not logged.

Non-moderator members changing their own display name is logged, as you stated.

--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: #activitylog - Owner changes not recorded

 

On Mon, Sep 3, 2018 at 09:05 AM, J_Catlady wrote:
 "[email address] changed display name from xxx to yyy via web
In that log entry, is that verbatim? Or is [email address] preceded by the current display name? 
 
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: #activitylog - Owner changes not recorded

 

On Mon, Sep 3, 2018 at 08:48 AM, Tom Vail wrote:
the following was in the activity log:  "[email address] changed display name from xxx to yyy via web"  
That's odd, because I just tested it again and the log showed nothing in either case.
Also, formerly when a mod changed the display name, I would see it logged as the member themselves having changed it.
I can go through and find all my emails to support about this.

You can take "bitching and moaning" as a synonym for "complaining." I am always logical. :) Or try to be. :) 
 
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: #activitylog - Owner changes not recorded

Tom Vail
 

On Sun, Sep 2, 2018 at 10:37 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
I have been bitching and moaning to Mark for months, if not years, about the strange logging, or lack thereof, of display name changes by moderators. 
Maybe it would help if you stopped "bitching and moaning" and just had a logical conversation?

I think display name changes are logged now only when done via email
This is not correct, at least on our site.  I just tested it and the following was in the activity log:  "[email address] changed display name from xxx to yyy via web"  I have not tried it via email, but I assume the same message is logged with "via email" in place of "via web." 

Peace,
Tom


Re: setting to moderate every thread a member starts #suggestion

 

It is sometimes a function of a ‘bad’ group member, but more often it is a function of the particular situation the member’s cat is in. You can assume that this would be a helpful feature for our group.


On Sep 2, 2018, at 11:31 PM, Ken Kloeber via Groups.Io <KWKloeber@...> wrote:

Is a member who, forever reason, doesn’t play nice, worth keeping s/he in the playground. Just pull the plug and be fine with it. 

Ken

Sent from my phone

--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: #activitylog - Owner changes not recorded

 

I have been bitching and moaning to Mark for months, if not years, about the strange logging, or lack thereof, of display name changes by moderators. 

I think display name changes are logged now only when done via email, when the member posts via email and groups.io "harvests" the email name and uses it to set the display name. (This now only happens if the display name does not already exist, after I complained groups.io would keep harvesting the email name and substituting it for a purposely set display name.)

I just did a test and changed a member's display name first by the member, then by a moderator, and neither is logged. So I'm guessing the discrepancy is due to the email "feature" (which I would consider just doing away with). 

In any case, I think display-name changes should be logged like everything else, and (like everything else) logged correctly, including who made the change, and no matter whether the member or the moderator changed it.

 

On Sun, Sep 2, 2018 at 10:11 PM Tom Vail <tom@...> wrote:
I'm curious why changes made by the group owner are not recorded in the activity log like they are when a member makes the change?  For example, if a member changes their display name, their name and email are recorded along with the before and after names.  Thank makes it easy to track, but impossible to tack when an owner makes the same change.

Is there some logic to not recording the activity of the owner?  Seems to me the activity log should record all activity.

Peace,
Tom


--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated #activitylog - Owner changes not recorded

Tom Vail
 

I'm curious why changes made by the group owner are not recorded in the activity log like they are when a member makes the change?  For example, if a member changes their display name, their name and email are recorded along with the before and after names.  Thank makes it easy to track, but impossible to tack when an owner makes the same change.

Is there some logic to not recording the activity of the owner?  Seems to me the activity log should record all activity.

Peace,
Tom


Re: setting to moderate every thread a member starts #suggestion

Jim Higgins
 

Received from ro-esp at 9/2/2018 10:45 PM UTC:

In my experience, people don't hijack threads "to avoid moderation". It's more like they are too lazy or too full of themselves to create a new thread and invent a subjectline. It gets worse when moderators don't (know how to) do their job - by which I mean put the user on moderated and reject messages that have a wrong subjectline.

I don't have an appreciable problem with hijacked threads, but I sure do find the direct approach Ronaldo suggests to be an effective solution to other issues. I've said it before... not much substitutes for simply managing our groups when the problem is people doing things they shouldn't... tho sometimes that management involves educating before moderating.

Jim H


moderated Re: Email delivery with Hotmail and MSN

Jim Higgins
 

Received from Frances at 9/3/2018 01:51 AM UTC:

Except that we know that there have been problems with some email providers (or iSPs?) before. Mark has had to reach out to the companies to stop treating the Groups.io messages like spam.

At least that was my untechnical understanding!

Yes, but the ones doing that aren't giving 2xy responses. they're giving 550... a permanent rejection.

Jim H


moderated Re: Email delivery with Hotmail and MSN

Frances
 

Hi

About:

That's a reasonable assumption... as long as you also read the whole message to see WHO made the report on delivery status and WHO might be queueing (delaying) the mail. In the case where specific examples were given, it was Outlook.com. Outlook.com belongs to Microsoft... as do MSN and Hotmail. And even if that isn't common knowledge, none of them are Groups.io. So the delivery message was Outlook.com telling Groups.io, "I've got the mail and will deliver it to my customer momentarily." Groups.io has no way to determine whether Outlook.com actually follows thru... so Outlook/MSN/Hotmail customers who aren't getting mail, but who have 250 status reports at GIO, need to contact Outlook/MSN/Hotmail.
Except that we know that there have been problems with some email providers (or iSPs?) before. Mark has had to reach out to the companies to stop treating the Groups.io messages like spam.

At least that was my untechnical understanding!

Frances


Re: setting to moderate every thread a member starts #suggestion

ro-esp
 

On Sun, Sep 2, 2018 at 01:34 PM, Bruce Bowman wrote:


Exactly why I *don't* like this idea. To avoid moderation, subscribers will
simply start hijacking threads instead of starting a new one.
Is life that bad where you live?

In my experience, people don't hijack threads "to avoid moderation". It's more like they are too lazy or too full of themselves to create a new thread and invent a subjectline. It gets worse when moderators don't (know how to) do their job - by which I mean put the user on moderated and reject messages that have a wrong subjectline.

groetjes, Ronaldo


moderated Re: Email delivery with Hotmail and MSN

Jim Higgins
 

Received from Michael Pavan at 9/2/2018 09:06 PM UTC:


A couple of errors in email delivery with Hotmail and MSN.

My user with a Hotmail address has not received the most recent email
from the group.
Queued mail for delivery -> 250 2.1.5

And MSN:
Queued mail for delivery -> 250 2.1.5

These aren't errors. This mail was delivered successfully. All response
codes beginning with 2 indicate success of the requested transaction.

I think most people believe the meaning of "Email Delivery History" is: "if, and when emails were delivered",
and that the meaning of "Queued mail for delivery" is: "queued and still waiting to be delivered" until the "Email Delivery Histor" is updated to show when it was delivered.

That's a reasonable assumption... as long as you also read the whole message to see WHO made the report on delivery status and WHO might be queueing (delaying) the mail. In the case where specific examples were given, it was Outlook.com. Outlook.com belongs to Microsoft... as do MSN and Hotmail. And even if that isn't common knowledge, none of them are Groups.io. So the delivery message was Outlook.com telling Groups.io, "I've got the mail and will deliver it to my customer momentarily." Groups.io has no way to determine whether Outlook.com actually follows thru... so Outlook/MSN/Hotmail customers who aren't getting mail, but who have 250 status reports at GIO, need to contact Outlook/MSN/Hotmail.

Jim H


moderated Re: Email delivery with Hotmail and MSN

Michael Pavan
 

A couple of errors in email delivery with Hotmail and MSN.

My user with a Hotmail address has not received the most recent email from the group.
Queued mail for delivery -> 250 2.1.5

And MSN:
Queued mail for delivery -> 250 2.1.5

These aren't errors. This mail was delivered successfully. All response codes beginning with 2 indicate success of the requested transaction.
I think most people believe the meaning of “Email Delivery History” is: ‘if, and when emails were delivered’,
and that the meaning of “Queued mail for delivery” is: 'queued and still waiting to be delivered’ until the “Email Delivery History” is updated to show when it was delivered.

“Queued” implies waiting to ‘get on the bus’, in other words ‘not going anywhere’ or undelivered.

Not having a legend explaining what the codes mean in plain, non-IT language is what is causing the doubt many are expressing.
Could these codes be made ‘clickable’ or when ‘hovered over’ to reveal their plain, non-IT language meanings?


moderated Re: Email delivery with Hotmail and MSN

Jim Higgins
 

Received from Frances at 9/2/2018 02:18 PM UTC:

A couple of errors in email delivery with Hotmail and MSN.

My user with a Hotmail address has not received the most recent email from the group.
Queued mail for delivery -> 250 2.1.5

And MSN:
Queued mail for delivery -> 250 2.1.5

These aren't errors. This mail was delivered successfully. All response codes beginning with 2 indicate success of the requested transaction.

Jim H


Re: setting to moderate every thread a member starts #suggestion

 

Going back to the beginning of this thread, I recall that I originally said I'd envisioned the "moderate all threads started by the member" setting as a sub-setting under "override - moderated."

With the new ideas being floated, specifically Helen's idea of a setting to moderate only the initial message in all threads started by the member, my request could be implement as a subsetting under that one, rather than as a subsetting under "override - moderated." (Clearly, a moderated member would already have all first messages of any topic they start moderated, because all of their messages are moderated.)

I thought it would be good to clarify that.
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu