Date   

moderated Re: Email delivery with Hotmail and MSN

Jim Higgins
 

Received from Michael Pavan at 9/2/2018 09:06 PM UTC:


A couple of errors in email delivery with Hotmail and MSN.

My user with a Hotmail address has not received the most recent email
from the group.
Queued mail for delivery -> 250 2.1.5

And MSN:
Queued mail for delivery -> 250 2.1.5

These aren't errors. This mail was delivered successfully. All response
codes beginning with 2 indicate success of the requested transaction.

I think most people believe the meaning of "Email Delivery History" is: "if, and when emails were delivered",
and that the meaning of "Queued mail for delivery" is: "queued and still waiting to be delivered" until the "Email Delivery Histor" is updated to show when it was delivered.

That's a reasonable assumption... as long as you also read the whole message to see WHO made the report on delivery status and WHO might be queueing (delaying) the mail. In the case where specific examples were given, it was Outlook.com. Outlook.com belongs to Microsoft... as do MSN and Hotmail. And even if that isn't common knowledge, none of them are Groups.io. So the delivery message was Outlook.com telling Groups.io, "I've got the mail and will deliver it to my customer momentarily." Groups.io has no way to determine whether Outlook.com actually follows thru... so Outlook/MSN/Hotmail customers who aren't getting mail, but who have 250 status reports at GIO, need to contact Outlook/MSN/Hotmail.

Jim H


moderated Re: Email delivery with Hotmail and MSN

Michael Pavan
 

A couple of errors in email delivery with Hotmail and MSN.

My user with a Hotmail address has not received the most recent email from the group.
Queued mail for delivery -> 250 2.1.5

And MSN:
Queued mail for delivery -> 250 2.1.5

These aren't errors. This mail was delivered successfully. All response codes beginning with 2 indicate success of the requested transaction.
I think most people believe the meaning of “Email Delivery History” is: ‘if, and when emails were delivered’,
and that the meaning of “Queued mail for delivery” is: 'queued and still waiting to be delivered’ until the “Email Delivery History” is updated to show when it was delivered.

“Queued” implies waiting to ‘get on the bus’, in other words ‘not going anywhere’ or undelivered.

Not having a legend explaining what the codes mean in plain, non-IT language is what is causing the doubt many are expressing.
Could these codes be made ‘clickable’ or when ‘hovered over’ to reveal their plain, non-IT language meanings?


moderated Re: Email delivery with Hotmail and MSN

Jim Higgins
 

Received from Frances at 9/2/2018 02:18 PM UTC:

A couple of errors in email delivery with Hotmail and MSN.

My user with a Hotmail address has not received the most recent email from the group.
Queued mail for delivery -> 250 2.1.5

And MSN:
Queued mail for delivery -> 250 2.1.5

These aren't errors. This mail was delivered successfully. All response codes beginning with 2 indicate success of the requested transaction.

Jim H


Re: setting to moderate every thread a member starts #suggestion

 

Going back to the beginning of this thread, I recall that I originally said I'd envisioned the "moderate all threads started by the member" setting as a sub-setting under "override - moderated."

With the new ideas being floated, specifically Helen's idea of a setting to moderate only the initial message in all threads started by the member, my request could be implement as a subsetting under that one, rather than as a subsetting under "override - moderated." (Clearly, a moderated member would already have all first messages of any topic they start moderated, because all of their messages are moderated.)

I thought it would be good to clarify that.
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Email delivery with Hotmail and MSN

Bob Bellizzi
 

On email, queued means exactly that; the message is queued up for delivery.
RoadRunner calls it delayed and will retry
I think there's an RFC that defined the process to attempt delivery of a message after it is queued.
--

Bob Bellizzi

Founder, Fuchs Friends ®
Founder & Executive Director, The Corneal Dystrophy Foundation


Re: setting to moderate every thread a member starts #suggestion

 

However, it would solve a really terrible problem!


On Sun, Sep 2, 2018 at 12:53 PM J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:
On Sun, Sep 2, 2018 at 12:46 PM, Shal Farley wrote:
I think that would be negligible. What might not be negligible is the effort Mark might have to put in to implement it.
Probably right on both counts. :)
 
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


Re: setting to moderate every thread a member starts #suggestion

 

On Sun, Sep 2, 2018 at 12:46 PM, Shal Farley wrote:
I think that would be negligible. What might not be negligible is the effort Mark might have to put in to implement it.
Probably right on both counts. :)
 
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


Re: setting to moderate every thread a member starts #suggestion

 

J,

In theory this sounds great, but I wonder how much it would slow
things down.
I think that would be negligible. What might not be negligible is the effort Mark might have to put in to implement it.

Shal


moderated Pending Subscription' Membership Notice replies should function as Subscription Approval Notices

Michael Pavan
 

Subscription Approval Notices enable the Owner/Moderator to approve/reject by email, or by direct link to that page of website.

However Pending Subscription' Membership Notice replies do NOT, which means the Owner/Moderator has to find the original Subscription Approval Notice, or go to the website and navigate to that page to approve or reject.

I suggest that replies to Pending Subscription' Membership Notices should also enable the Owner/Moderator to approve/reject by email, or by direct link to that page of website


Re: setting to moderate every thread a member starts #suggestion

 

On Sun, Sep 2, 2018 at 01:02 AM, Shal Farley wrote:
when an inbound message is being evaluated for where it threads those prior texts would be available as potential matches to the inbound subject line.
In theory this sounds great, but I wonder how much it would slow things down.
 
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Email delivery with Hotmail and MSN

Drew
 

We have approx 200 Hotmail/MSN subscribers. From my sampling it appears that all who are email subscribers to our group are showing the "250 2.1.5" delivery response. Only one person has actually complained about not receiving emails so far.

Drew

On 09/02/18 10:18, Frances wrote:
A couple of errors in email delivery with Hotmail and MSN.
My user with a Hotmail address has not received the most recent email from the group.
Delivered
Sep 1
Response
2.6.0 <000301d4423c$13bd21a0$3b3764e0$@net> [InternalId=5226975234757, Hostname=CY1NAM02HT227.eop-nam02.prod.protection.outlook.com] 10123 bytes in 0.299, 33.052 KB/sec Queued mail for delivery -> 250 2.1.5
And MSN:
Delivered
Sep 1
Response
2.6.0 <000301d4423c$13bd21a0$3b3764e0$@net> [InternalId=17441862226796, Hostname=DM3NAM03HT245.eop-NAM03.prod.protection.outlook.com] 10123 bytes in 0.325, 30.363 KB/sec Queued mail for delivery -> 250 2.1.5
Recent, but I only looked because another owner on the GroupManagers forum said his Hotmail members were complaining.
Frances


moderated Email delivery with Hotmail and MSN

Frances
 

A couple of errors in email delivery with Hotmail and MSN.

My user with a Hotmail address has not received the most recent email from the group.

Delivered
Sep 1
Response
2.6.0 <000301d4423c$13bd21a0$3b3764e0$@net> [InternalId=5226975234757, Hostname=CY1NAM02HT227.eop-nam02.prod.protection.outlook.com] 10123 bytes in 0.299, 33.052 KB/sec Queued mail for delivery -> 250 2.1.5

And MSN:
Delivered
Sep 1
Response
2.6.0 <000301d4423c$13bd21a0$3b3764e0$@net> [InternalId=17441862226796, Hostname=DM3NAM03HT245.eop-NAM03.prod.protection.outlook.com] 10123 bytes in 0.325, 30.363 KB/sec Queued mail for delivery -> 250 2.1.5

Recent, but I only looked because another owner on the GroupManagers forum said his Hotmail members were complaining.

Frances


Re: setting to moderate every thread a member starts #suggestion

 

I'll walk that back a little. I do see you point: they might *start* doing it, even if they're not doing it now. 

Yesterday I heard an NPR "Freakonomics Radio" piece on incentives and rules backfiring. In one South American country recently (which one it was escapes me at the moment), there was so much traffic congestion and pollution that they came up with a program where you could only drive on certain days of the week, depending on the last digit of your license plate. So people starting buying one more car. Then two more. Some people even got three or four more cars! And they were buying old clunkers, so the pollution got worse. 

In another situation, somewhere in the U.S., the area was being overrun by pigs. They started a "pig eradicatio"n incentive program, paying people $45 per pig tail, incentivizing them to kill the pigs. Strangely, the pig overpopulation problem got worse: people were buying pigs somewhere else for $5 each, killing them, and presenting the tails for their $45. (I know, this is awful...)

Anyway, it is odd sometimes how people getting around rules can make situations worse. However, I am confident this will not happen in my group if the feature is implemented, and probably not in Helen's, either. I think the bad subject lines would be caught and fixed so fast that the senders might not even realize it was happening. Same with putting the thread on moderation (if that part is implemented).


On Sun, Sep 2, 2018 at 5:03 AM J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:
I haven’t experienced that happening in the three+ years of running my group. Strangely, my group members tend to start *too many* new threads. But if your group members do that, then don’t use the festure. Simple.


On Sep 2, 2018, at 4:34 AM, Bruce Bowman <bruce.bowman@...> wrote:

On Sat, Sep 1, 2018 at 09:13 AM, ro-esp wrote:
This thing starts to make sense now. Yes, it can be a nuisance when people use the reply-button for things that are not replies.

However, a "new threads moderated" feature won't solve that...
Exactly why I *don't* like this idea. To avoid moderation, subscribers will simply start hijacking threads instead of starting a new one.

To me, this is a far worse scenario than the original problem.

Bruce

--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


Re: setting to moderate every thread a member starts #suggestion

 

I haven’t experienced that happening in the three+ years of running my group. Strangely, my group members tend to start *too many* new threads. But if your group members do that, then don’t use the festure. Simple.


On Sep 2, 2018, at 4:34 AM, Bruce Bowman <bruce.bowman@...> wrote:

On Sat, Sep 1, 2018 at 09:13 AM, ro-esp wrote:
This thing starts to make sense now. Yes, it can be a nuisance when people use the reply-button for things that are not replies.

However, a "new threads moderated" feature won't solve that...
Exactly why I *don't* like this idea. To avoid moderation, subscribers will simply start hijacking threads instead of starting a new one.

To me, this is a far worse scenario than the original problem.

Bruce

--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


Re: setting to moderate every thread a member starts #suggestion

Bruce Bowman
 

On Sat, Sep 1, 2018 at 09:13 AM, ro-esp wrote:
This thing starts to make sense now. Yes, it can be a nuisance when people use the reply-button for things that are not replies.

However, a "new threads moderated" feature won't solve that...
Exactly why I *don't* like this idea. To avoid moderation, subscribers will simply start hijacking threads instead of starting a new one.

To me, this is a far worse scenario than the original problem.

Bruce


Re: setting to moderate every thread a member starts #suggestion

 

Helen, J,

So I go and change them, but then people responding via e-mail end up
in the original thread with the original subject line, and then I have
to keep merging the threads.
If Mark were looking for something to do there's a solution to this problem.

When splitting, merging, or renaming a topic - any time the Subject text can be changed - Groups.io could retain a copy of the prior Subject text for all the affected messages. Or I should say a list of prior texts, as a moderator could make more than one edit (or split, or merge) affecting any given message.

Then when an inbound message is being evaluated for where it threads those prior texts would be available as potential matches to the inbound subject line.

In cases where the inbound message includes an In-Reply-To and/or References field this restores the unambiguous match to the original message, sparing the moderator of the necessity of doing it.

In most cases of Edits and Merges there would likely be only one topic (within the two-week cutoff) with a matching Subject text, either present or past.

Splits would leave one topic with the original subject (as now) and one topic with a new subject plus the original in its history. Absent one of the referencing header fields an arbitrary choice must be made as to which of those two topics the inbound message belongs with. Choosing the topic with the most recent message is probably the least wrong choice.

Shal
File this as a "not quite FUSSP"
(Final Ultimate Solution to the Split Problem)


Re: setting to moderate every thread a member starts #suggestion

 

On Tue, Aug 28, 2018 at 03:37 AM, Helen wrote:
I go and change them, but then people responding via e-mail end up in the original thread with the original subject line, and then I have to keep merging the threads.
Exactly! I used to go through this all the time and I eventually just stopped changing subject lines. Now if there's a subject line that's unacceptable for some reason, I edit out the whole message to make it blank (deleting the message prevents locking the thread), lock the thread, and ask the person to repost. Your suggested feature would be very helpful.

My suggestion does, as Mark has pointed out, go beyond yours. And I would prefer to have both. But if he decides to implement only yours, it would still be a help. If I set people whose threads I want to moderate to "moderate first message of every topic," at least I would have a chance to catch their topic before it becomes active and could still put the whole thread on moderation manually. 
 
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


Re: setting to moderate every thread a member starts #suggestion

Chris Jones
 

On Sat, Sep 1, 2018 at 08:21 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
I don't think you understand the concept of a moderated thread.
Funnily enough I do, and agree with your comment on their usefulness.

What I don't understand is why a thread should be moderated for all simply because it was started by one specific person, of one of a small number of specified persons.

I look forward to hearing the underlying reasoning.

Chris


Re: setting to moderate every thread a member starts #suggestion

 

On Tue, Aug 28, 2018 at 04:18 AM, Chris Jones wrote:
I simply cannot see what forcing A to Y to be moderated in the above case achieves or why it it is seen to be necessary.
I don't think you understand the concept of a moderated thread. They are extremely useful.
 
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


Re: setting to moderate every thread a member starts #suggestion

 

Now looking to some other prior replies I missed before, I think the language "by the member" suggested by people above is inconsistent with the current language of the posting privilege options, which is why I left it out. I think it's clear from the context (i.e., we're in the member page) that the setting refers to topics started BY THE MEMBER.
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu

12701 - 12720 of 30663