Date   

locked Re: Allowing owner/moderator to assist member settings

 

On 2/11/2015 6:10 PM, J. Faulkner wrote:
I am an owner of a couple of groups and moderator of several with full access except deleting the group and the only thing I can do is change their mail delivery, i.e. Individual, Digest, etc. and unsubscribe.
Plus posting privs, moderate/not - that's about
all I know that I can do also.

dg


locked Re: Allowing owner/moderator to assist member settings

kr402
 

As a Ygroup moderator 
I'm able to:
ban, remove members

Profile: edit member;

change members
* role: member, moderator
* Message Delivery
* Posting Privileges
* Disallow file upload

change other moderators
* moderator privileges
in addition to
* role: moderator, member
* Message Delivery
* Posting Privileges

KR


locked Changing member name

 

Hi All,

I appreciate all the discussion about moderators assisting members; I don't know what the right answer is yet in regards to changing email or adding aliases. But it seems like changing the member's name is fairly straightforward. Here's my proposal, let me know what you think:

(Assuming an owner or moderator with the permission to change a user's subscription options)

- Can set the member's full name to whatever you want
- That is not transferred to any other subscription the member may have, it's limited to just this one subscription
- If the member changes/sets their full name through their profile, it sets the name on the subscription, even if you've changed it
- If the member posts/replies through the web site, the email is sent using only a name the user has set (if they haven't set a name and you have for them, it is not used).

Thoughts?

Thanks,
Mark


locked Re: Allowing owner/moderator to assist member settings

Judy F.
 

Ronaldo, I don't think this is true unless something has happened that I don't know about or there are other options that I did not know about.

I am an owner of a couple of groups and moderator of several with full access except deleting the group and the only thing I can do is change their mail delivery, i.e. Individual, Digest, etc. and unsubscribe. The other things I can do are owner/moderator type changes.

Judy F.
SW Florida - USA

-----Original Message-----
From: ro-esp [mailto:ro-esp@dds.nl]
Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2015 4:09 PM
To: beta@groups.io
Subject: [beta] Re: Allowing owner/moderator to assist member #member settings #security

As far as I know, in yahoogroups a moderator can change any setting from any member. I don't recall any story of that being a problem.

This doesn't include adding a new email-adress, but I think giving iogroups moderators that option wouldn't lead to problems either.

groetjes, Ronaldo


locked Site updates #changelog

 

Changes to the site today:

  • Behind the scene improvements to the Yahoo Easy Group transfer process
  • Found and fixed a race condition in the email sending code that may have led to duplicate emails.
  • Fixed a bug with parsing poorly formed Reference: email headers.
  • Launched one click unsubscribe.

One click unsubscribe

Unsubscribe links in footers will now instantly unsubscribe you. At the same time, you'll get an email with a resume subscription link that's valid for 3 days. The resume link will not work if you've been banned or have subscribed again some other way. And we look for these unsubscribe links in emails and scrub them to prevent shenanigans.

Mark


locked Duplicates bug fix

 

Hi All,

Over the past few weeks I had gotten a couple reports about people receiving duplicate emails. I just fixed a small race condition in the email sending code, that in some specific instances, could have led to duplicate emails being sent. Please let me know if you see any additional duplicates.

Thanks,
Mark


locked Re: Allowing owner/moderator to assist member settings

ro-esp
 

As far as I know, in yahoogroups a moderator can change any setting from any member. I don't recall any story of that being a problem.

This doesn't include adding a new email-adress, but I think giving iogroups moderators that option wouldn't lead to problems either.

groetjes, Ronaldo


locked Re: Unsubscribe link (was More on new subscriptions)

 

On 2/10/2015 1:48 PM, J. Faulkner wrote:
This was explained because of the discussion about a member unsubscribing by mistake and being allowed to send the unsubscribed message saying they made a mistake and they would be reinstated.
Or worse, if someone else unsubscribes them.

My personal opinion is that such a link take the person to
the membership options for the group where "leave group"
is a clear option - and a secondary "are you sure" question
is asked.

I think most folks are used to being asked if they want to
do something permanent as a secondary level of security.
Primary is being asked to sign in to the group. The
checkmark or leave group option can default to "on" when
using that link.

Especially important for groups such as the ones Judy is
involved with.

dg


locked Re: Allowing owner/moderator to assist member settings

 

Shal -
I really appreciate your input on this. This isn't often needed, but when it is, it's the only way, short of going to where the member is, to help them. As you noted, it's the equivalent risk to remote access. And yet the industry still has a need for remote access, and for the same reason. Requiring that this be part of a paid subscription would also be one more protection. Otherwise, it's a similar situation to remote access, still requiring user permission first. And I am assuming there would be a separate trail of actions for access to user accounts. Just as with the IT industry, it appears to be a necessary evil in a few extreme situations.
Dano


locked Re: Allowing owner/moderator to assist member settings

 

Dano,

Perhaps this could go so far as to allow the owner to change message
delivery settings and add alternate email addresses.
...
I recognize this pushes some security concerns ...
Yeah, no kidding.

In Yahoo Groups the "Alternate Posting Address" was treated as an alias for the member's true address. In particular, without looking at the message header one couldn't tell that the alternate address had been used. I think under the hood it operated a lot like an email From address spoof. In the hands of an unscrupulous moderator that could be a nasty way to damage a member's reputation or convert the member into a sock-puppet.

If Groups.io were to implement something like this, or the ability to change a member's email address, I think it might be best thought of in the same ways as a Remote Assistance session: very useful, very dangerous.

I think member-initiated and time-limited are two good restrictions. My primary concern with that is the one expressed by Dano and Judy: how to make it simple enough for the member who needs it most to initiate it. Maybe there needs to be more than one way: an email way for members that can't find the group's pages and a web way for those who can't fathom an email command.

Direct add of members would allow us some way to reconnect him and
delete his old account, but we still need to be able to change things to
help him out.
That's the only way to change the address of an email-only member: Remove the old address and Add the new one. Which in Yahoo Groups ceased to be possible when they completely removed the Add Member feature. And isn't possible for free in Groups.io.

For members with web access that method is rude: it discards their subscription settings and destroys their identity as the owner of prior content (they would no longer be able to delete or edit the messages posted under the old address).

-- Shal


locked Re: Digest numbers

 

Mark,

The digest number really is just for us to use internally for tracking
bounces that come back. It has no real significance otherwise and I
wasn't sure whether to add it to the digest subject line or not. If it's
confusing, perhaps I should just remove it.
In one of my Yahoo Groups I found the Digest numbers a handy way to check for email bouncing, greylisting, or blackholing. When I saw a gap in the digest numbers of a particularly busy group then I knew it was time to go pound on Verizon again (my ISP at the time). Not exactly a common or compelling use case though, hopefully that's not a problem I'll have again... ;-)

-- Shal


locked Re: Allowing owner/moderator to assist member settings

Linda
 

Hi Mark,
I would think that an owner (or moderator with permission) should be able to make all of the changes, including email address and name for a particular subscription.  
 
In the case of the email address, a confirmation email from Groups.io to the member's old address, which requires no response if correct, should be all that is needed.
 
Thanks,
Linda


locked Re: Allowing owner/moderator to assist member settings

Terry S
 

Hmm. You're probably right.

There has to be some way to secure the member's membership while still allowing the moderator to 'fix' the member's account settings when the member is not competent to do so. That's no reflection on the member's brilliance, but only on his computer literacy.

Terry S
--
"Women are Angels. And when someone breaks our wings.... We simply continue to fly ... on broomsticks... We are flexible..." - copied from a Facebook page because I love it!


On 2/10/2015 9:01 PM, J. Faulkner wrote:
Terry, the reason this suggestion was made was to allow the owner/mod access to change some things because a lot of these members don't know how to do it and if they try they are making a mess out of it. I doubt if they would be able to set up a temporary password if they can't do the other stuff.

Judy F.
SW Florida - USA


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locked Re: Allowing owner/moderator to assist member settings

 

I like the idea of permission only being given to an owner/moderator and
not to all the moderators . I would still ask the member for an email
stating it was OK and what changes would be made or something like that.
Maybe I'm overly careful, but want all bases covered.

I understand yuor concerns Judy, but most of the members we have trouble
with would have no idea what kind of "magic" they needed. They couldn't
really tell you what they needed much beyond "It's broke - fix it." That's
why something simple like the flip of a permission timer might be the
simplest thing to give them.

Dano


locked Re: Allowing owner/moderator to assist member settings

Judy F.
 

I like the idea of permission only being given to an owner/moderator and not to all the moderators . I would still ask the member for an email stating it was OK and what changes would be made or something like that. Maybe I'm overly careful, but want all bases covered.

Judy F.
SW Florida - USA

-----Original Message-----
From: D R Stinson [mailto:dano@mt.net]
Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2015 9:32 PM
To: beta@groups.io
Subject: [beta] Re: Allowing owner/moderator to assist member #member settings #security

Terry, the reason this suggestion was made was to allow the owner/mod access to change some things because a lot of these members don't know how to do it and if they try they are making a mess out of it. I doubt if they would be able to set up a temporary password if they can't do the other stuff.
Judy, you said it better than I can. But I understand Mark's concerns too. That's why it is imperative that the member make the first active move, although it needs to be something simple. And I really think this needs to be a separate permission explicitly given to only certain moderators. The default for the moderator would be off, and the Owner would have to turn it on specifically on only those moderators who were able and trusted.

Perhaps a member could only give such permission for a limited time and that permission would expire in five days, so the member would have to renew it each time it was needed.

Dano


locked Re: Allowing owner/moderator to assist member settings

 

Terry, the reason this suggestion was made was to allow the owner/mod access to change some things because a lot of these members don't know how to do it and if they try they are making a mess out of it. I doubt if they would be able to set up a temporary password if they can't do the other stuff.
Judy, you said it better than I can. But I understand Mark's concerns too. That's why it is imperative that the member make the first active move, although it needs to be something simple. And I really think this needs to be a separate permission explicitly given to only certain moderators. The default for the moderator would be off, and the Owner would have to turn it on specifically on only those moderators who were able and trusted.

Perhaps a member could only give such permission for a limited time and that permission would expire in five days, so the member would have to renew it each time it was needed.

Dano


locked Re: Allowing owner/moderator to assist member settings

Judy F.
 

Terry, the reason this suggestion was made was to allow the owner/mod access to change some things because a lot of these members don't know how to do it and if they try they are making a mess out of it. I doubt if they would be able to set up a temporary password if they can't do the other stuff.

Judy F.
SW Florida - USA

-----Original Message-----
From: Terry S [mailto:apacapacas@apacapacas.com]
Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2015 8:45 PM
To: beta@groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] Allowing owner/moderator to assist member #member settings #security


One way to deal with it is to have the user set a temporary password and email that password to the moderator who is going to set up his account. After the account is setup to the member's satisfaction, the moderator can 'lock' the account settings, and then the member can change the password for his account to something the moderator doesn't know. That way, the account gets set up properly and the user is secure AND the settings don't get all bolloxed up again.

Terry S
--
"Women are Angels. And when someone breaks our wings.... We simply continue to fly ... on broomsticks... We are flexible..." - copied from a Facebook page because I love it!




On 2/10/2015 4:14 PM, J. Faulkner wrote:
I like the idea also and it does push the security concerns. We have some problems similar to what you mentioned and it is very frustrating when you provide step by step instructions on how to do things, sometime even with pictures and they still can't do it.

If something is set up like this, there definitely needs to be something put in place so the owner/moderators aren't liable for making changes. I say this, because I have had members that forgot that they told me to do something and then get upset. So I now have them send me an email and I keep them.

Great idea!
Judy F.
SW Florida - USA


-----Original Message-----
From: D R Stinson [mailto:dano@mt.net]
Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2015 1:48 PM
To: beta@groups.io
Subject: [beta] Allowing owner/moderator to assist member #member
settings #security

This brings to mind a concern I have. Some of our older and less tech-savvy members have a lot of trouble with individual settings related to their accounts. Could there be a switch at the top of the Subscriptions page that a member could set to allow an owner or highest privelege moderator to change the members settings? Perhaps this could go so far as to allow the owner to change message delivery settings and add alternate email addresses. I'll explain.

We have a group member over on Y that has his system so messed up that the only way he can communicate with the group is by sending an email to someone else and getting them to forward it on. On a couple occasions someone was able to visit this person and straighten things out, but they didn't stay. This person is hours away from anyone who could assist him. I and the top moderator have tried to talk him through changing his settings to be able to reconnect, but he's just lost with any of it. Direct add of members would allow us some way to reconnect him and delete his old account, but we still need to be able to change things to help him out.

I recognize this pushes some security concerns and I hope others will add their own thoughts to this. These valuable but limited members have a lot to offer, but sometimes need a little more help than we can offer.

Dano










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locked Re: Digest numbers

Judy F.
 

Thanks Mark, then I say leave it as is.  Others may feel differently about it, but now that I understand about the numbering system and why it differs, I say leave it as is.

 

Judy F.

SW Florida - USA

 

From: Mark Fletcher [mailto:markf@corp.groups.io]
Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2015 7:52 PM
To: beta@groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] Re: Digest numbers

 

Judy,

 

On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 12:28 PM, J. Faulkner <jfaulkner44@...> wrote:

Mark, I know better about not being able to see a certain digest number in the group.  Duh! 

 

Now that I have been hit in the head and I realize my question was dumb since a digest is just that a combination of messages into one.  I do think if it helps you with bounces, it should stay. 

 

I didn't think your question was dumb and I apologize if it sounded that way.

 

 

 

If it really doesn’t matter, then why the difference in the numbering in the digests?

 

With the various subscription options, each member of a group might get different messages sent to them (either single or digest). So, we have to create a unique digest for each person (unlike Y! Groups, where everybody on digest gets the same thing). For tracking bounces, we need to have an individual number per person for each digest that goes out (so we can figure out things like 'we've gotten 5 bounces in a row from this member, something's up'). Other than that, the digest number has no significance to members.

 

Thanks,

Mark


locked Re: Allowing owner/moderator to assist member settings

Terry S
 

One way to deal with it is to have the user set a temporary password and email that password to the moderator who is going to set up his account. After the account is setup to the member's satisfaction, the moderator can 'lock' the account settings, and then the member can change the password for his account to something the moderator doesn't know. That way, the account gets set up properly and the user is secure AND the settings don't get all bolloxed up again.

Terry S
--
"Women are Angels. And when someone breaks our wings.... We simply continue to fly ... on broomsticks... We are flexible..." - copied from a Facebook page because I love it!




On 2/10/2015 4:14 PM, J. Faulkner wrote:
I like the idea also and it does push the security concerns. We have some problems similar to what you mentioned and it is very frustrating when you provide step by step instructions on how to do things, sometime even with pictures and they still can't do it.

If something is set up like this, there definitely needs to be something put in place so the owner/moderators aren't liable for making changes. I say this, because I have had members that forgot that they told me to do something and then get upset. So I now have them send me an email and I keep them.

Great idea!
Judy F.
SW Florida - USA


-----Original Message-----
From: D R Stinson [mailto:dano@mt.net]
Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2015 1:48 PM
To: beta@groups.io
Subject: [beta] Allowing owner/moderator to assist member #member settings #security

This brings to mind a concern I have. Some of our older and less tech-savvy members have a lot of trouble with individual settings related to their accounts. Could there be a switch at the top of the Subscriptions page that a member could set to allow an owner or highest privelege moderator to change the members settings? Perhaps this could go so far as to allow the owner to change message delivery settings and add alternate email addresses. I'll explain.

We have a group member over on Y that has his system so messed up that the only way he can communicate with the group is by sending an email to someone else and getting them to forward it on. On a couple occasions someone was able to visit this person and straighten things out, but they didn't stay. This person is hours away from anyone who could assist him. I and the top moderator have tried to talk him through changing his settings to be able to reconnect, but he's just lost with any of it. Direct add of members would allow us some way to reconnect him and delete his old account, but we still need to be able to change things to help him out.

I recognize this pushes some security concerns and I hope others will add their own thoughts to this. These valuable but limited members have a lot to offer, but sometimes need a little more help than we can offer.

Dano









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locked Re: Digest numbers

 

Judy,

On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 12:28 PM, J. Faulkner <jfaulkner44@...> wrote:

Mark, I know better about not being able to see a certain digest number in the group.  Duh! 

 

Now that I have been hit in the head and I realize my question was dumb since a digest is just that a combination of messages into one.  I do think if it helps you with bounces, it should stay. 

 

I didn't think your question was dumb and I apologize if it sounded that way.

 

 

If it really doesn’t matter, then why the difference in the numbering in the digests?

 

With the various subscription options, each member of a group might get different messages sent to them (either single or digest). So, we have to create a unique digest for each person (unlike Y! Groups, where everybody on digest gets the same thing). For tracking bounces, we need to have an individual number per person for each digest that goes out (so we can figure out things like 'we've gotten 5 bounces in a row from this member, something's up'). Other than that, the digest number has no significance to members.

Thanks,
Mark