On Fri, May 11, 2018 at 02:06 am, Dave Sergeant wrote:

My only gripe with the downtime announcements is that they should be
given directly in UTC rather than USA Pacific time (UTC-8) when we have
to do a mental calculation in our heads to work out when it is.

Agree with that, being at UTC-5 (well, UTC-4 now during Daylight Savings Time).
What I would really like to see is the elimination of the horrific AM and PM which, of course, will allow for simple calculation.

Click Subscription above and check the Daily Digest radio button.
Working well for me.
Arno

In this particular case the downtime was relatively short (but during
daytime in the UK) that most would not even have been aware of it.
Longer time outages should maybe be given more publicity but I am not
sure a blanket posting to all groups would really help.

My only gripe with the downtime announcements is that they should be
given directly in UTC rather than USA Pacific time (UTC-8) when we have
to do a mental calculation in our heads to work out when it is.

As for cats, I had not even noticed them in my plain text emails...

Dave

On 11 May 2018 at 1:55, Chris Jones via Groups.Io wrote:

Indeed it was, but to a limited audience on beta. Not all groups are
represented on beta, or the GMF for that matter. Not by a very wide
margin...

http://davesergeant.com

On Fri, May 11, 2018 at 12:26 am, Ruthie Levi wrote:

the outage was announced well in advance

Indeed it was, but to a limited audience on beta. Not all groups are represented on beta, or the GMF for that matter. Not by a very wide margin...

 

there was a banner across the groups home page yesterday, well in advance

See my post on GMF yesterday; if my experience is in any way typical then most Groups.io users don't use the web access much, if at all.

 

mark’s playground, his rules, his cats

True for free groups, but I'm not sure that you can say that about "paid - for" ones.

Chris

On Thu, May 10, 2018 at 11:28 pm, Shal Farley wrote:

I see nothing wrong with this bit of whimsy. Growing up is optional, even with the largest of tech companies.

I have to agree with that, though I agree that the planned downtime could have been better announced, particularly for paid - for groups.

Chris

Alexis,

I was under the impression that all plain text emails had a max line
length of 80 is it?

80 includes the ASCII CR and LF characters that terminate the line. So 78 message characters. But that's the original email standard.

In the current standard:

2.1.1. Line Length Limits

There are two limits that this specification places on the number of
characters in a line. Each line of characters MUST be no more than
998 characters, and SHOULD be no more than 78 characters, excluding
the CRLF.
...
Again, even though this limitation is put
on messages, it is incumbent upon implementations that display
messages to handle an arbitrarily large number of characters in a
line (certainly at least up to the 998 character limit) for the sake
of robustness.
https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc5322.txt

As for HTML emails, well I think they are the anti christ and besides,
any properly formatted HTML email SHOULD have a plain text version as
well.

Heh, while I've often said something similar, a proposal to display the text/plain part instead of the text/HTML part in a Multipart/Alternative message body would be a separate option (I'd think) from just providing a fixed-pitch font option.

What I missed out was that all my lists are set to plain text only, so
html is not an issue....so your suggestion of adding it to a group's
settings opposed to a user's settings, makes more sense.

No, I specifically did NOT suggest that it be a group setting. Rather a viewing option, more like forward or reverse date order when looking at a list of messages. Something you can change on the spot when you see that a message doesn't look the way you want it to.

Shal

/"\
\ / ASCII Ribbon Campaign
X Against HTML Mail
/ \

Steve,

*1. Send out an email to all group owners, letting them know of the
start time and estimated duration*

Perhaps group owners should have, or be offered, a default subscription to http://status.groups.io/

Of course the corollary to that is that the outage be listed there.

*3. /Can the cat pictures/. It may have been cute when groups.io
started, but it's time to "grow up" and put up a professional message
of the site's status, ...

I see nothing wrong with this bit of whimsy. Growing up is optional, even with the largest of tech companies.
https://www.google.com/doodles

Anyone remember this guy?
https://www.flickr.com/photos/shalf/6210313586/

Shal

I was under the impression that all plain text emails had a max line length of 80 is it? Can't remember exactly offhand. Anyways, with that, there should be no issues with the line being too long for the display window. Unless of course the email has not been properly formatted.

As for HTML emails, well I think they are the anti christ and besides, any properly formatted HTML email SHOULD have a plain text version as well.

What I missed out was that all my lists are set to plain text only, so html is not an issue....so your suggestion of adding it to a group's settings opposed to a user's settings, makes more sense.

Alexis

Alexis,

So that is all I am asking, that we have the option to 'add' the <pre>
tag to all messages we view online

I'd recommend against <pre>, as it has the primary effect of eliminating word-wrap and replacing it with a horizontal scroll (when the source line is too long for the display window).

Rather I'd suggest what you started with: use a fixed pitch font.

I think it makes sense to apply to messages that have only a text/plain message body. I'm not sure if it would be useful or just annoying to apply it as a default font for text/HTML message bodies.

Shal

Alexis,

Might it be possible to have a 'fixed width formatting' option when
viewing messages on the web front end.

I second that motion.

If it is possible, might you be able to make a setting in each
member's profile so they view all messages in this format, or if not,
how about within each group's setting's details.

I'd rather have it be handy, as a view option when looking at messages. I'd have it apply to all the text/plain message bodies being displayed on the current page. I'd like to have it remembered as you navigate the site.

That is, I'd rather not have it tucked away in my profile where I have to go find it to change it, nor would I (as a member) want to have to pester the group admins to change it on a group-wide basis.

Shal

On Thu, May 10, 2018 at 08:15 pm, Steve wrote:

Can the cat pictures.

That would be unacceptable! >_<
 
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu

I can not get this group (beta) to give me just a daily summary of messages.  I have reset it several times, gone back to summery, but to no avail.

I know I must just be holding my mouth wrong, but can someone help me out?

On Thu, May 10, 2018 at 10:31 am, Mark Fletcher wrote:

We do strip a lot of inline styles, but (hopefully) none of the ones used by the editor. So if you're just using editor functions to format things, it should all work ok. Are there specific CSS attributes you would like to see not stripped? (we mainly strip to prevent attack vectors).

I'm using the "Source Code" editor to insert inline styles. It's these that are subsequently stripped. I want to use styles that do not seem to be available via the editor. For example, when I insert an image, I can change dimensions only via the editor, I can't scale it to a fraction of the page width, I can't float it to the right margin, etc.

I'm not looking for anything elaborate. Just basic stuff like text-align, float, width, border, etc.

It's my understanding from discussions in GMF that GIO uses a "bootstrap" set of style sheets (getbootstrap.com). Unfortunately I've not been able to find these in human-readable form. Simply knowing what styles are already defined so I could implement the classes via the source code editor would help as a first approximation. I was already able to do that with aligning an image to the right margin using class=pull-right. 

I hope that makes things more clear.

Thanks,
Bruce

and as I suspected, viewing this message online removes the 'alignment' :)

Thanks for your response Gerald


Here is an example

VHIQR 20180501 1201 XA0000 (GBLXRS BIZ) (BIZ-FLIGHT)
CGDPF 20180501 1821 XA0000 (CL60 BIZ) (BIZ-FLIGHT)
OYMSI 20180501 0918 XA0000 (GBLX BIZ) (BIZ-FLIGHT)
CGWHF 20180501 1503 XA0000 (GBLXRS BIZ) (BIZ-FLIGHT)
GWIRG 20180501 1844 ZD0000 (E135BJ BIZ) (BIZ-FLIGHT)
VPCRA 20180501 1247 ZD0000 (E135BJ BIZ) (BIZ-FLIGHT)

If I create this on the website then the 'column' alignment disappears due to the width of each character. But creating it, like i have now using thunderbird, set to plain text, is appears fine.

The original when posted, came through in my inbox just fine, when viewed online was all over the place, BUT when I went to view source, the alignment re-appeared.

Looking at the source coding for the website, this appears to be because when viewing the source the <PRE> tag is used. So that is all I am asking, that we have the option to 'add' the <pre> tag to all messages we view online rather than having to scroll to the bottom of some 4,000+ line emails and then click on 'More' and then 'view source' :)
I realise this would not affect most people's groups, but as it would mean an extremely minor addition to the coding, I ask :)

btw, the bulk of the messages being posted to my lists are not posted via web clients, or web front ends, rather directly from purpose built software, and generally just use the basic email headers

Cheers
Alexis

I searched several times and could not find a thread to see what Management's opinion on this was, if I missed it I apologize.

Could it be looked into to develop/share a method of securing certain folders, and allowing members to modify another? 

Example:

• Folder 1, only moderators can modify.
• Folder 2, any member can modify.
• Folder 3, only one person can modify (and the moderators/owner).

Thoughts? 

-Jerry

On Thu, May 10, 2018 at 03:17 pm, Toby Kraft wrote:

unsubscribing the member (which to many seems rather draconian). 

But again, my comparison was not with respect to the user experience. I understand that the proposed method is better in terms of user experience. My question is, and has always been: how does the proposed method solve the (perceived) problem? In other words, how is the proposed method any better than sub/unsub in terms of ensuring that the spam issue will not happen again with respect to a particular user? In the unsub/sub situation, the user simply has to click on a link to resubscribe. They are warned about, but not forced to take any action with respect to, their spam filter. The proposed method seems similar in that regard - again, unless I am missing something.

You mention you direct-add unsubscribed members, but the free plan groups do not have direct-add 

I mentioned that only to show that unsub/sub has not accomplished anything, at least in the case of my group. It has been no more disastrous to simply add the member back in than to make them jump the hoop of clicking on a link to resub. The resub link (just like the proposed method) to me is like "wink, wink, see, you had to do something." Nobody has ever been unsubbed twice for marking a message as spam. That was my sole point here. I am fully aware that basic-level groups can't direct-add members

--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu

On Thu, May 10, 2018 at 03:22 pm, Gerald Boutin wrote:

Alexis,

I did a quick test and if you generate a text only message using an email client  (eg Gmail) with a fixed width font, it renders properly when viewed on the groups.io web interface. Since there seems to be no way to chose a font online when composing, I don't see how you could directly generate a fixed width font post online.

Here's a sample I just pasted from a text message i sent to myself earlier for testing.

Fixed width font    < 4 Spaces     < 5 spaces

sdjhsdjklkjsadkj    < sdsadkjsdkl  < skldjasklj

 

The above rows should be aligned.

--
Gerald

Well, it was in fixed width font (monospace) while I was composing the message, but the formatting didn't come through.
 
--
Gerald