Date   

moderated Re: Fixed Width Formatting

Alexis
 

Thanks for your response Gerald


Here is an example

VHIQR 20180501 1201 XA0000 (GBLXRS BIZ) (BIZ-FLIGHT)
CGDPF 20180501 1821 XA0000 (CL60 BIZ) (BIZ-FLIGHT)
OYMSI 20180501 0918 XA0000 (GBLX BIZ) (BIZ-FLIGHT)
CGWHF 20180501 1503 XA0000 (GBLXRS BIZ) (BIZ-FLIGHT)
GWIRG 20180501 1844 ZD0000 (E135BJ BIZ) (BIZ-FLIGHT)
VPCRA 20180501 1247 ZD0000 (E135BJ BIZ) (BIZ-FLIGHT)

If I create this on the website then the 'column' alignment disappears due to the width of each character. But creating it, like i have now using thunderbird, set to plain text, is appears fine.

The original when posted, came through in my inbox just fine, when viewed online was all over the place, BUT when I went to view source, the alignment re-appeared.

Looking at the source coding for the website, this appears to be because when viewing the source the <PRE> tag is used. So that is all I am asking, that we have the option to 'add' the <pre> tag to all messages we view online rather than having to scroll to the bottom of some 4,000+ line emails and then click on 'More' and then 'view source' :)
I realise this would not affect most people's groups, but as it would mean an extremely minor addition to the coding, I ask :)

btw, the bulk of the messages being posted to my lists are not posted via web clients, or web front ends, rather directly from purpose built software, and generally just use the basic email headers

Cheers
Alexis

On 10/05/2018 16:26, Gerald Boutin wrote:
On Thu, May 10, 2018 at 03:22 pm, Gerald Boutin wrote:
Alexis,
I did a quick test and if you generate a text only message using an email
client (eg Gmail) with a fixed width font, it renders properly when viewed
on the groups.io web interface. Since there seems to be no way to chose a
font online when composing, I don't see how you could directly generate a
fixed width font post online.
Here's a sample I just pasted from a text message i sent to myself earlier
for testing.
Fixed width font < 4 Spaces < 5 spaces
sdjhsdjklkjsadkj < sdsadkjsdkl < skldjasklj
The above rows should be aligned.
--
Gerald
Well, it was in fixed width font (monospace) while I was composing the message,
but the formatting didn't come through.
--
Gerald


moderated Feature Request: Folder Level Security #suggestion

Jerry Rogers
 

I searched several times and could not find a thread to see what Management's opinion on this was, if I missed it I apologize.

Could it be looked into to develop/share a method of securing certain folders, and allowing members to modify another? 

Example:
  • Folder 1, only moderators can modify.
  • Folder 2, any member can modify.
  • Folder 3, only one person can modify (and the moderators/owner).
Thoughts? 

-Jerry


moderated Re: AOL problem

 

On Thu, May 10, 2018 at 03:17 pm, Toby Kraft wrote:
unsubscribing the member (which to many seems rather draconian). 
But again, my comparison was not with respect to the user experience. I understand that the proposed method is better in terms of user experience. My question is, and has always been: how does the proposed method solve the (perceived) problem? In other words, how is the proposed method any better than sub/unsub in terms of ensuring that the spam issue will not happen again with respect to a particular user? In the unsub/sub situation, the user simply has to click on a link to resubscribe. They are warned about, but not forced to take any action with respect to, their spam filter. The proposed method seems similar in that regard - again, unless I am missing something.

You mention you direct-add unsubscribed members, but the free plan groups do not have direct-add 
I mentioned that only to show that unsub/sub has not accomplished anything, at least in the case of my group. It has been no more disastrous to simply add the member back in than to make them jump the hoop of clicking on a link to resub. The resub link (just like the proposed method) to me is like "wink, wink, see, you had to do something." Nobody has ever been unsubbed twice for marking a message as spam. That was my sole point here. I am fully aware that basic-level groups can't direct-add members

--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Fixed Width Formatting

Gerald Boutin <groupsio@...>
 

On Thu, May 10, 2018 at 03:22 pm, Gerald Boutin wrote:
Alexis,

I did a quick test and if you generate a text only message using an email client  (eg Gmail) with a fixed width font, it renders properly when viewed on the groups.io web interface. Since there seems to be no way to chose a font online when composing, I don't see how you could directly generate a fixed width font post online.

Here's a sample I just pasted from a text message i sent to myself earlier for testing.

Fixed width font    < 4 Spaces     < 5 spaces
sdjhsdjklkjsadkj    < sdsadkjsdkl  < skldjasklj
 
The above rows should be aligned.


--
Gerald
Well, it was in fixed width font (monospace) while I was composing the message, but the formatting didn't come through.
 
--
Gerald


moderated Re: Fixed Width Formatting

Gerald Boutin <groupsio@...>
 

On Thu, May 10, 2018 at 12:22 pm, Alexis wrote:
Hi,

Might it be possible to have a 'fixed width formatting' option when viewing messages on the web front end. I am a member of a number of gorups that produce emails with large lists of which each column is padded out with spaces to keep the allignment of the columns. All these groups use plain text emails only, primarily to keep message sizes down as a 4,000 line email in plain text can be 56k, whereas in HTML could be 4Mb.
If it is possible, might you be able to make a setting in each member's profile so they view all messages in this format, or if not, how about within each group's setting's details.

Just transferred in from yahoogroups and I have to say a big congratulations on setting up an alternative to them and googlegroups, and just love your transfer routine..big BIG thumbs up

Cheers
Alexis

Alexis,

I did a quick test and if you generate a text only message using an email client  (eg Gmail) with a fixed width font, it renders properly when viewed on the groups.io web interface. Since there seems to be no way to chose a font online when composing, I don't see how you could directly generate a fixed width font post online.

Here's a sample I just pasted from a text message i sent to myself earlier for testing.

Fixed width font    < 4 Spaces     < 5 spaces
sdjhsdjklkjsadkj    < sdsadkjsdkl  < skldjasklj
 
The above rows should be aligned.


--
Gerald


moderated Re: AOL problem

Toby Kraft
 

J, 
I appreciate your comments and they are always insightful...

Re: (paraphrased) how is the proposed method ("spam block") any different or better than the current method ("unsubscribe")?
What's proposed, IMHO, is a more graceful way of responding to the spam report than unsubscribing the member (which to many seems rather draconian).  Since it would be enabled on a per-group basis, group owner/mods would never see it unless it was enabled.

You mention you direct-add unsubscribed members, but the free plan groups do not have direct-add so it's more problematic for them to get the member resubscribed.

Thanks
Toby


moderated Fixed Width Formatting

Alexis
 

Hi,

Might it be possible to have a 'fixed width formatting' option when viewing messages on the web front end. I am a member of a number of gorups that produce emails with large lists of which each column is padded out with spaces to keep the allignment of the columns. All these groups use plain text emails only, primarily to keep message sizes down as a 4,000 line email in plain text can be 56k, whereas in HTML could be 4Mb.
If it is possible, might you be able to make a setting in each member's profile so they view all messages in this format, or if not, how about within each group's setting's details.

Just transferred in from yahoogroups and I have to say a big congratulations on setting up an alternative to them and googlegroups, and just love your transfer routine..big BIG thumbs up

Cheers
Alexis


moderated Re: Formatting Wiki Pages

 

Hello,

On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 6:04 PM, Bruce Bowman <bruce.bowman@...> wrote:
The wiki editor does not appear to support inline styles (they are stripped when you save). Even things like {float:right} are stripped. Because of this, I've had to resort to long-deprecated HTML usage just to get an image to scale properly and align to the right margin.


We do strip a lot of inline styles, but (hopefully) none of the ones used by the editor. So if you're just using editor functions to format things, it should all work ok. Are there specific CSS attributes you would like to see not stripped? (we mainly strip to prevent attack vectors).

Thanks,
Mark 


moderated Re: AOL problem

 

And to emphasize my point: unsub/resub seems like essentially a no-op anyway. In GMF (I’m no longer there) I heard arguments that it’s useful because it forces the member to do something affirmative to stay in the group. But I disagree that it creates a meaningful barrier. The whole process currently, and as proposed, strikes me as a ridiculous charade. I direct-add my unsubbed members back in to save them the confusion and the headache. And despite that, the same member has never been slammed twice in a row. It seems almost random.


On May 10, 2018, at 9:24 AM, Bob Bellizzi <cdfexec@...> wrote:

I think that Catlady hit the nail on the thumb, none of our  schemes is any better than the simple unsubscribe.

I tried to stop looking at this thread because it's a really tough knot to open for so many reasons.

One of the biggest problems is that in many cases, the intended recipient is not informed of the groups.io message being intercepted and never delivered to them in any form.  Input from groups.io just stops because it's turned back at the email supplier.
In that case, there is no communication possible between groups.io and the intended recipient to instruct the recipient, period, so all schemes depending on communication are not possible.

Secondly, people do not like change and in many cases are fiercely loyal to their email provider often just because they don't want to have to leave a familiar environment or don't wish to lose the "freebees" provided by the email provider for the express purpose of keeping them as clients.

So showing them how to set up any new provider account doesn't seem an option.

Finally, I'm going to ignore this thread unless Mark introduces a change to the current process of handling spam notices.
--

Bob Bellizzi

Founder, Fuchs Friends ®
Founder & Executive Director, The Corneal Dystrophy Foundation


--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: AOL problem

Bob Bellizzi
 

I think that Catlady hit the nail on the thumb, none of our  schemes is any better than the simple unsubscribe.

I tried to stop looking at this thread because it's a really tough knot to open for so many reasons.

One of the biggest problems is that in many cases, the intended recipient is not informed of the groups.io message being intercepted and never delivered to them in any form.  Input from groups.io just stops because it's turned back at the email supplier.
In that case, there is no communication possible between groups.io and the intended recipient to instruct the recipient, period, so all schemes depending on communication are not possible.

Secondly, people do not like change and in many cases are fiercely loyal to their email provider often just because they don't want to have to leave a familiar environment or don't wish to lose the "freebees" provided by the email provider for the express purpose of keeping them as clients.

So showing them how to set up any new provider account doesn't seem an option.

Finally, I'm going to ignore this thread unless Mark introduces a change to the current process of handling spam notices.
--

Bob Bellizzi

Founder, Fuchs Friends ®
Founder & Executive Director, The Corneal Dystrophy Foundation


moderated Re: AOL problem

Bruce Wilson
 

Would it not be more simple to show the AOL user how to set up a gmail account to use with groups.io and avoid all of the AOL hassles?

Bruce Wilson
Barrie, Ontario, Canada

On 5/10/2018 09:36, ro-esp wrote:
On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 09:02 pm, Randy Thomson wrote:

So the answer to the question

what's to then prevent the same thing from happening as before


moderated Re: AOL problem

ro-esp
 

On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 09:15 am, Tom Vail wrote:

"Spam Report Hold" is better than “Suspended.”
maybe, but it's not good enough. People who have no idea what we are talking about here would start googleing "spam report hold" - and maybe in vain..

If we have something like this, it would have to tell people "check your spambox and mark your group's messages as not-spam. After doing so, reactivate your subscription *here* "

groetjes, Ronaldo


moderated Re: AOL problem

ro-esp
 

On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 09:02 pm, Randy Thomson wrote:

So the answer to the question

what's to then prevent the same thing from happening as before



is that, assuming the mail server takes expected action and the recipient
takes the proper action to designate messages from xyzzy@groups.io as safe
email, future messages will no longer be treated as spam and will be delivered
appropriately.
So "the subscriber unflagging messages", because using a filterrule would bypass the spamfilter instead of teaching it anything.

Seems to me things could go very wrong if a group were used for spam...

groetjes, Ronaldo




Since the behavior of neither the email server nor (especially) the recipient
is fully predictable, the process cannot be totally reliable, but (fingers
crossed) may work most of the time.



I think a lot of the discussion has gone into how to make the process
foolproof. IMO, there are too many permutations of fool for this to be
accomplished. Either unsubscribing or setting to no mail, and simultaneously
sending a notice with clear instructions is all we can do. My preference would
be the latter, but I’m OK with either approach.



Randy T



From: main@beta.groups.io <main@beta.groups.io> On Behalf Of J_Catlady
Sent: Wednesday, May 9, 2018 9:15 PM
To: main@beta.groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] AOL problem



On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 05:59 pm, ro-esp wrote:

What's keeping those later messages from getting stuck in the same spamfilter?

This is related to my question (two posts back) about the difference between
this method and the current method, wherein the user gets an email with a
resubscribe link. Currently, after someone resubscribes, what's to then
prevent the same thing from happening as before, i.e., future messages going
into their spam? Is the current proposition different in that their
configuration would somehow change to prevent future emails from going into
spam?

--
J



Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu




moderated Re: AOL problem

 

On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 09:02 pm, Randy Thomson wrote:
how to make the process foolproof. IMO, there are too many permutations of fool for this to be accomplished
Haha :) 

But what I'm still not understanding is how the proposed method (set member to "spam block," send email with link to unblock) is any different or better than the current method (unsubscribe member, send email with unsubscribe link) IN TERMS OF the situation repeating itself ad infinitum with the particular member. I understand that it's better in terms of the user experience, since the member still has access to the group contents and is not toally unsubscribed. But there was a concern expressed here that just undoing the unsubscribe doesn't prevent the problem from happening again. How is the proposed method superior in that regard?


 
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: AOL problem

Randy Thomson
 

Oops. I meant to redact the original message, and groups.io removed a lot of formatting, so the message below is sort of confusing. I’m turning it into unformatted text and manually formatting.
------------------------------

From: main@beta.groups.io <main@beta.groups.io> On Behalf Of Randy Thomson via Groups.Io
Sent: Wednesday, May 9, 2018 11:01 PM
To: main@beta.groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] AOL problem

J_Catlady,

Assuming it works as expected (or maybe not),
1. Email is sent by mailto:xyzzy@groups.io (aka groups.io/xyzzy).
2. Mail is received at destination email server.
3. Mail is examined by server and determined to be spam.
4. Mail server
a. Either marks message as spam or does not mark as spam
And
b. Either delivers it to the Inbox or to a Spam folder, or, heaven forbid, just doesn’t deliver it, in which case you’re *OL.
c. Then either
i. Sends spam report to groups.io, or
ii. Does not send spam report to groups.io.
5. Assuming 4.c.i., Groups.io receives spam report
a. Groups.io automatically unsubscribes member
b. Groups.io sends notice of unsubscription with resubscribe link to member.
6. If mail goes to
a. inbox, then member receives messages and takes appropriate resubscribe action.
b. Spam folder
i. Member notices “I haven’t received any messages from xyzzy lately, I wonder what happened.”
ii. Member thinks “I wonder if it’s being treated as spam.” And checks spam folder.
iii. Wallah! There it is.
7. Member designates mail as not spam, or better yet designates sending domain as safe, and moves mail to inbox.
8. Member re-subscribes using link in second email message.

All is well, and future emails are received.

There are multiple permutations, additions, deletions and variations on the above depending upon
1. Mail server behavior
2. Mail recipient behavior

So the answer to the question

what's to then prevent the same thing from happening as before

is that, assuming the mail server takes expected action and the recipient takes the proper action to designate messages from mailto:xyzzy@groups.io as safe email, future messages will no longer be treated as spam and will be delivered appropriately.

Since the behavior of neither the email server nor (especially) the recipient is fully predictable, the process cannot be totally reliable, but (fingers crossed) may work most of the time.

I think a lot of the discussion has gone into how to make the process foolproof. IMO, there are too many permutations of fool for this to be accomplished. Either unsubscribing or setting to no mail, and simultaneously sending a notice with clear instructions is all we can do. My preference would be the latter, but I’m OK with either approach.

Randy T


moderated Re: AOL problem

Randy Thomson
 

J_Catlady,

 

Assuming it works as expected (or maybe not),

1.       Email is sent by xyzzy@groups.io (aka groups.io/xyzzy).

2.       Mail is received at destination email server.

3.       Mail is examined by server and determined to be spam.

4.       Mail server

a.       Either marks message as spam or does not mark as spam

And

b.       Either delivers it to the Inbox or to a Spam folder, or, heaven forbid, just doesn’t deliver it, in which case you’re *OL.

c.       Then either

                                                               i.      Sends spam report to groups.io, or

                                                             ii.      Does not send spam report to groups.io.

5.       Assuming 4.c.i., Groups.io receives spam report

a.       Groups.io automatically unsubscribes member

b.       Groups.io sends notice of unsubscription with resubscribe link to member.

6.       If mail goes to inbox, then member receives messages and takes appropriate resubscribe action.

7.       If mail goes to Spam folder, member notices “I haven’t received any messages from xyzzy lately, I wonder what happened.”

8.       Member thinks “I wonder if it’s being treated as spam.” And checks spam folder.

9.       Wallah! There it is.

10.   Member designates mail as not spam, or better yet designates sending domain as safe, and moves mail to inbox.

11.   Member re-subscribes using link in second email message.

12.   All is well, and future emails are received.

 

There are multiple permutations, additions, deletions and variations on the above depending upon

a.       Mail server behavior

b.       Mail recipient behavior

 

So the answer to the question

 

what's to then prevent the same thing from happening as before

 

is that, assuming the mail server takes expected action and the recipient takes the proper action to designate messages from xyzzy@groups.io as safe email, future messages will no longer be treated as spam and will be delivered appropriately.

 

Since the behavior of neither the email server nor (especially) the recipient is fully predictable, the process cannot be totally reliable, but (fingers crossed) may work most of the time.

 

I think a lot of the discussion has gone into how to make the process foolproof. IMO, there are too many permutations of fool for this to be accomplished. Either unsubscribing or setting to no mail, and simultaneously sending a notice with clear instructions is all we can do. My preference would be the latter, but I’m OK with either approach.

 

Randy T

 

From: main@beta.groups.io <main@beta.groups.io> On Behalf Of J_Catlady
Sent: Wednesday, May 9, 2018 9:15 PM
To: main@beta.groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] AOL problem

 

On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 05:59 pm, ro-esp wrote:

What's keeping those later messages from getting stuck in the same spamfilter?

This is related to my question (two posts back) about the difference between this method and the current method, wherein the user gets an email with a resubscribe link. Currently, after someone resubscribes, what's to then prevent the same thing from happening as before, i.e., future messages going into their spam? Is the current proposition different in that their configuration would somehow change to prevent future emails from going into spam?
 
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: AOL problem

 

On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 05:59 pm, ro-esp wrote:
What's keeping those later messages from getting stuck in the same spamfilter?
This is related to my question (two posts back) about the difference between this method and the current method, wherein the user gets an email with a resubscribe link. Currently, after someone resubscribes, what's to then prevent the same thing from happening as before, i.e., future messages going into their spam? Is the current proposition different in that their configuration would somehow change to prevent future emails from going into spam?
 
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Formatting Wiki Pages

Bruce Bowman
 

The wiki editor does not appear to support inline styles (they are stripped when you save). Even things like {float:right} are stripped. Because of this, I've had to resort to long-deprecated HTML usage just to get an image to scale properly and align to the right margin.

If there's a style sheet somewhere that we can apply (and is in a human-readable form), I would be pleased to use existing classes instead of resorting to this sort of kludging. Does such a thing exist?

Thanks,
Bruce


moderated Re: AOL problem

ro-esp
 

I'm getting confused here. it seems to be like this:

Some email-message from groups.io lands in somebody's spambox.
His/her ISP sends some message to groups.io requesting to stop messages.
When groups.io stops sending messages to that address, the subscriber can click a link (in an email-message or on the website) to resume receiving messages.

What's keeping those later messages from getting stuck in the same spamfilter?


groetjes, Ronaldo


moderated Re: AOL problem

kr402
 

That sounds good 👍 

On May 9, 2018, at 3:30 PM, Tom Vail <Tom@...> wrote:

Is the advantage that the person still has
access to the group content and can still
post to the group, but just doesn't receive
emails?

Yes

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