Date   

moderated Re: To improve the Address Confirmation email #suggestion

Tom Vail
 

Shal,

You used 3 terms here, which to the uninformed, could well be used interchangeably...account, membership, subscription.  You know this system well, and obviously, are doing a good job in trying to help.  But put yourself into the position of a Yahoo Form member who just got moved to Groups, and likely doesn't even really understand why (even though they have been told Yahoo is imploding) nor understand anything about Groups.  You can not expect them to understand the difference in terms without some explanation.  So you are right, I think the distinction between them need to be explained more clearly for the user, especially during the initial process for the new user.

It sounds like from your note that the system was intended to send the Pending message after the person replies to that initial message. That would help in the process greatly, but as J pointed out, that is not the way it works for a web application. Resolving that will go a long way in resolving this whole problem. But as John mentioned above, it would be nice if the message they received was customized to the group they were becoming a member of, and even nicer if we could add to or modify that message since it will be the first message they receive from Groups.

Peace,
Tom


moderated Re: To improve the Address Confirmation email #suggestion

 

On Fri, May 4, 2018 at 08:34 pm, Shal Farley wrote:
The Pending message is deferred until after the person replies to that initial message, or clicks through the link to Confirm their account.
That's true only if the person applies via email. If they apply via the web, both are sent out at once - and (as may be recalled in a prior thread about this) I personally would prefer that to happen in both cases, for symmetry.
 
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: To improve the Address Confirmation email #suggestion

 

Tom,

Replying to the message does not activate the account if it is a
restricted group. This is misleading the user, ...
Actually it does activate the account. An account is not the same as a membership.

What it doesn't do is approve their membership in (aka subscription to) your group. I think what you're looking for is to have that distinction more clearly made.

Maybe a better option is to send out an email to _just _confirm the
email address, and then once that is received, send out the group’s
Pending Subscription message. This would present a more logical flow
for the user and give more control of the communication with their
users.
Please explain how your proposal differs from how it works now. The Pending message is deferred until after the person replies to that initial message, or clicks through the link to Confirm their account.

Shal


moderated Re: I'm back!

Ginny T.
 

Welcome back, Mark and I hope that you had a great vacation. Now try to get some sleep!
Ginny T.
--
Ginny T.  gttemari21@...
========
TemariKai.com


moderated Re: Default membership to the update group

Tom Vail
 

It is not really a hardship, but just one more “button” to push which will take folks to a place where most people don’t need/want to go.  And when they do, then they have to figure out how to get back.

 

As you suggested, it is likely a hold-over that may have lost its usefulness.  IMHO, when designing a system, the KISS principle always works the best.  Keep it very simple for the basic user, and then allow the more advanced opt-in to additional features.

 

Peace,

Tom

 

 

From: <main@beta.groups.io> on behalf of Bruce Bowman <bruce.bowman@...>
Reply-To: "main@beta.groups.io" <main@beta.groups.io>
Date: Thursday, May 3, 2018 at 5:23 PM
To: "main@beta.groups.io" <main@beta.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [beta] Default membership to the update group

 

On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 02:20 pm, Tom Vail wrote:

If it is an FAQ, and not being emailed, then why have them be members?   It just confuses the not-so-savvy user, which I would guess it the vast majority.

I think it's a throwback to the time when groups.io was smaller and Mark may have needed a way to contact everybody about system issues. As the service has grown its utility has no doubt diminished and I agree that it may be time to abandon the notion.

What I'm struggling to understand is exactly what hardship it is causing. Your subscribers aren't getting emails and they don't have to visit the Updates group if they don't want to. I have not personally had a single person in my group make any inquiries about this. So what's the problem?

Thanks,
Bruce


moderated Re: Default membership to the update group

Bruce Bowman
 

On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 02:20 pm, Tom Vail wrote:
If it is an FAQ, and not being emailed, then why have them be members?   It just confuses the not-so-savvy user, which I would guess it the vast majority.
I think it's a throwback to the time when groups.io was smaller and Mark may have needed a way to contact everybody about system issues. As the service has grown its utility has no doubt diminished and I agree that it may be time to abandon the notion.

What I'm struggling to understand is exactly what hardship it is causing. Your subscribers aren't getting emails and they don't have to visit the Updates group if they don't want to. I have not personally had a single person in my group make any inquiries about this. So what's the problem?

Thanks,
Bruce


moderated Re: Default membership to the update group

Tom Vail
 

If it is an FAQ, and not being emailed, then why have them be members?   It just confuses the not-so-savvy user, which I would guess it the vast majority.

 

We need to remember that we, those who discuss these issues and ask these questions, are not the “normal” user.  As a moderator I think it is my job to make the system as easy to use, and require the least amount of technical expertise as possible for the end user.  What we “techies” think is either cool or interesting, or just nice to know, for the most part is unnecessary to most unless they require it to accomplish the task they are trying to accomplish.

 

Peace,

Tom

 

From: <main@beta.groups.io> on behalf of Bruce Bowman <bruce.bowman@...>
Reply-To: "main@beta.groups.io" <main@beta.groups.io>
Date: Thursday, May 3, 2018 at 1:23 PM
To: "main@beta.groups.io" <main@beta.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [beta] Default membership to the update group

 

On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 11:36 am, Tom Vail wrote:

Is it really necessary to have every user to be a member of the "Update" group?

This is beginning to become an FAQ.

The #changelog hashtag in the Updates group has the "no email" flag set. This means that one must log in and manually go to the Updates group to read it. It is not being emailed to your subscribers.

Hope this helps,
Bruce


moderated Re: LISTSERV #suggestion

Bruce Bowman
 

On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 02:49 pm, Michael Dunn wrote:
Any chance we might see LISTSERV import added someday...? thx
Hmmm...the original Bitnet Listserv was just a remailer that ran on the old IBM VM mainframes. It did not store messages or allow people to archive files/attachments and such (beyond the basic functionality necessary to accumulate enough to form a daily digest). That being the case, if you have a list of email addresses it is already possible to upload that as a CSV file into the Direct Add or Invite box and get people into the group.

If newer versions of the LSoft product have more capabilities, please enlighten us (or at least me).

Thanks,
Bruce


moderated Re: Default membership to the update group

Bruce Bowman
 

On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 11:36 am, Tom Vail wrote:
Is it really necessary to have every user to be a member of the "Update" group?
This is beginning to become an FAQ.

The #changelog hashtag in the Updates group has the "no email" flag set. This means that one must log in and manually go to the Updates group to read it. It is not being emailed to your subscribers.

Hope this helps,
Bruce


moderated Re: Default membership to the update group

 

Plus, there are never (or hardly ever) any "updates" posted there. So it's pretty much moot. :)

On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 1:02 PM, Bob Bellizzi <cdfexec@...> wrote:
anyone can opt out by sending an email to updates+unsubscribe@groups,io
--

Bob Bellizzi

Founder, Fuchs Friends ®
Founder & Executive Director, The Corneal Dystrophy Foundation



--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Default membership to the update group

Bob Bellizzi
 

anyone can opt out by sending an email to updates+unsubscribe@groups,io
--

Bob Bellizzi

Founder, Fuchs Friends ®
Founder & Executive Director, The Corneal Dystrophy Foundation


moderated Re: I'm back!

Joseph Hudson <jhud7789@...>
 

Welcome back, and have fun playing catch-up.

On May 3, 2018, at 1:17 PM, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:

Hi All,

I'm back from vacation. I'll be working through Yahoo Group invites (there are just under 400 of them to go through) and support emails, and then back to GDPR stuff. I hope to launch a full group export feature before the end of the week, replacing the existing archive export function.

Jetlagged, Mark


moderated Default membership to the update group

Tom Vail
 

Is it really necessary to have every user to be a member of the "Update" group?  Maybe we are unusual, but the vast majority of our users don't have any interest in system updates.  I would suggest that a button be added to the Subscription page for membership to the Update Group, and the default be NO.  That way those who are interested can opt-in, and the rest can blistfully go on unconserned about updates and what they might be.

Leave the update information to the moderators and those who have an interest.

For what it is worth.
Tom


moderated I'm back!

 

Hi All,

I'm back from vacation. I'll be working through Yahoo Group invites (there are just under 400 of them to go through) and support emails, and then back to GDPR stuff. I hope to launch a full group export feature before the end of the week, replacing the existing archive export function.

Jetlagged, Mark


moderated Re: Photo searching #suggestion

Noel Leaver
 

> Here is potentially a fix for this.  It would not work for a group who have people uploading hundreds of images, but for those who generally load only a few at a time, have the option to require the user to "Name" the image.

Another fix is to make users upload all files as attachments, as messages are fully searchable.

 

Noel


moderated Re: Photo searching #suggestion

Tom Vail
 

Here is potentially a fix for this.  It would not work for a group who have people uploading hundreds of images, but for those who generally load only a few at a time, have the option to require the user to "Name" the image.

It would be a new option under the Photos settings for "Photo name" with 2 options:
       Use downloaded file name as photo name (default)
       Require user to name each image 

As it is today, the name field would be prefilled with the file name, but it would either have to be changed, or a checkbox checked to say "Use this name."

Just a thought.
Tom 


moderated Re: To improve the Address Confirmation email #suggestion

Tom Vail
 

I agree with John, with a couple of additions.

 

As he said, the wording of the default message is misleading/wrong and should be corrected.  Replying to the message does not activate the account if it is a restricted group.  This is misleading the user, and likely at a time when they are new to Groups.io, leaving them asking why their membership did not get activated.  To me this is not something that is a “let’s consider for the next release,” but an error which should be fixed.

If they do “reply” to the initial email they get a response that says “If any of the groups you subscribed to require approval before joining, you will be notified when that happens.”   That assumes they understand the difference between “confirmed” and “approved.”  Which I would submit is not very likely for someone new to Groups.io.

 

Additionally, if they click on the “Confirm account” link, it can be even more confusing because they are taken to the confirmed page, but they still need to be approved if it is a restricted group, and there is nothing on that page about the approval process.  Then if you click on the group you just joined, it takes you to their “home” page, but still says nothing about the approval process.  Only when you click on one of the side tabs do you get the “Your subscription has not yet been approved.” message.  There should be a separate page for public and restricted groups.

I agree also that different messages should be sent out depending on the type of group.  And having a very short and sweet response if there is an 
active "Pending Subscription" in place gives the group the ability to guide their users through the process they have in place.  Maybe a better option is to send out an email to just confirm the email address, and then once that is received, send out the group’s Pending Subscription message. This would present a more logical flow for the user and give more control of the communication with their users.

For what it is worth,

Tom


moderated Re: Photo searching #suggestion

Chris Jones
 

On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 03:20 pm, Michael Dunn wrote:
We have 700 albums! Being able to search on descriptions and filenames would be a lifesaver.
OK; you have 700 albums; we had 256, containing perhaps 2500 photographs (No - I didn't count them) most of which were "named" largely as Duane described: IMG_20160920_154327096_HDR.jpg or similar. It was, and in many respects still is, an alphanumerical soup, and that includes many of the Album names.

I have spent a lot of time trying to bring some order to the whole thing, with at least a degree of success, but it is tedious. One thing is for certain; it was totally unsearchable.

I had to create a whole new batch of albums, and rename many others to provide broad subject headings and then sub - headings to try to ensure that even if individual photographs aren't indexed their likely location could be. (FWIW as the Photos section has no index of its own I created one in the group wiki with each subheading being hyperlinked to the album concerned.) I have also (in some cases, not all) re - titled photos so that they appear in the album in some sort of sensible sequence.

The one thing that would have been of major benefit would have been the ability to move photos between albums (as one can with Files in Folders in the Files section) without having to download them and then upload them again; the big problem with this is that it changes the photos' attibutions so I have have to reattribute them to their originators in the "text area".

Perhaps you are luckier in the way your members upload photo material, but I strongly doubt it! At least we are down to about 200 albums and maybe half the original number of photos, having stripped out the near duplication and, frankly, the complete dross.

Yes; it has been and still it a lot of work, but perhaps that is the price of being a Moderator.

Chris


moderated Re: Photo searching #suggestion

Duane
 

On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 03:20 pm, Michael Dunn wrote:
What?!? How so? We have 700 albums! Being able to search on descriptions and filenames would be a lifesaver. Sheesh.
Do you know that the photo you're searching for is named IMG_20160920_154327096_HDR.jpg?  Or that the poster described it as LFTtllt?  Those are actual items from one of the photos on one of my groups.

You may think it's an easy task, but you need to consider possible problems, database limitations, future enhancements, other requests, etc.  Mark has many improvements planned and has to schedule his time to benefit the most people for any task.

Duane


moderated Re: Photo searching #suggestion

Michael Dunn
 

On May 2, 2018, at 19:05, Chris Jones via Groups.Io <chrisjones12@...> wrote:
I can see that trying any search would be a dismal failure

What?!? How so? We have 700 albums! Being able to search on descriptions and filenames would be a lifesaver. Sheesh.


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