Date   

moderated Re: Business models was Re: [beta] Make Basic level accounts paid

Bob Bellizzi
 

Paypal even works well with any shopping cart. Most ot our donors use PayPal even though they don't have an account.  Some of them utilize it for recurring donations which Paypal nicely handles.
But, as I said the majority aren't and don't need to be Paypal account members.
Moderate away!
--

Bob Bellizzi

Founder, Fuchs Friends ®
Founder & Executive Director, The Corneal Dystrophy Foundation


moderated Re: Make Basic level accounts paid

 

All,

I am moderating this topic. Unless your post demonstrates that you know what I've already said on this subject in this thread, and adds to the conversation, it will be deleted without comment.

Thanks.

Going back on vacation, Mark (not grumpy, just disappointed in the unfounded fear some have and have spread)


moderated Re: Make Basic level accounts paid

 

Also Mark said he's not planning on doing anything. 

On Thu, Apr 26, 2018 at 8:15 AM, J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:
Jerome,
Just stay. As Shal has said, eliminating free groups is not even on the table. This whole discussion went wacko.

On Thu, Apr 26, 2018 at 4:37 AM, Jerome Kutche <n9lya@...> wrote:
Like I stated before..
I am not a company 

No money changes hands for what we do it would be illegal.. Against the FCC rules.
But paying if we must maybe.. But most likely I would just drop Groups.io
I was invited for a free acct. To charge for that would be a bit rude.
I dropped Yahoo to move here.. Anything would most likely cause a group with well over 3500 Members to disappear.

Nuff said its now up to Mark do I stay or do I go... 



--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu



--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Make Basic level accounts paid

 

Jerome,
Just stay. As Shal has said, eliminating free groups is not even on the table. This whole discussion went wacko.

On Thu, Apr 26, 2018 at 4:37 AM, Jerome Kutche <n9lya@...> wrote:
Like I stated before..
I am not a company 

No money changes hands for what we do it would be illegal.. Against the FCC rules.
But paying if we must maybe.. But most likely I would just drop Groups.io
I was invited for a free acct. To charge for that would be a bit rude.
I dropped Yahoo to move here.. Anything would most likely cause a group with well over 3500 Members to disappear.

Nuff said its now up to Mark do I stay or do I go... 



--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Make Basic level accounts paid

Jerome Kutche
 

Like I stated before..
I am not a company 

No money changes hands for what we do it would be illegal.. Against the FCC rules.
But paying if we must maybe.. But most likely I would just drop Groups.io
I was invited for a free acct. To charge for that would be a bit rude.
I dropped Yahoo to move here.. Anything would most likely cause a group with well over 3500 Members to disappear.

Nuff said its now up to Mark do I stay or do I go... 


moderated Re: Icon upgrades

Ginny T.
 

Are we the only ones missing the attachment icon? And I did a hard reload...
Thanks,
Ginny
--
Ginny T.  gttemari21@...
========
TemariKai.com


moderated Re: Make Basic level accounts paid

toki
 

On 04/24/2018 06:37 PM, Randy Thomson via Groups.Io wrote:

for the board of directors (17 Group members) of a small (currently under 50
members) non-profit with a very low budget, if I had had to pay to move to
Groups.IO offers 501(c)(3) organizations a discount.
What Mark would do if a non-profit from Canada, England, or elsewhere
requested the discount, is up to him.

If the applicant were IKEA, I'd hope he'd charge them full commercial
rates.(How they manage to maintain their non-profit status is a mystery
to me.)

OTOH, if it was _St John's Ambulance_ - let them have the non-profit
discount.

jonathon


moderated Re: free accounts

 

On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 03:15 pm, toki wrote:
Hint: Neither FaceBook nor YahooGroups are his competitors.
All of this sounds right. 
Who are the competitors???
 
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: free accounts

toki
 

On 04/24/2018 10:19 PM, Barbara Byers wrote:

It is that the paying groups are subsidizing the free basic ones.
What you are missing is how Mark views the different plans:
* Free groups are his marketing tools;
* Premium groups pay the rent;
* Enterprise groups provide the profit;

He's got a couple of Enterprise customers, who are very happy with his
services. Those are the customers that might be subsidizing the rest of
the groups.

In running a cost/feature comparison between Groups.IO, and his major
competitors, it looks like the Enterprise customers are the ones who are
being subsidized.

Hint: Neither FaceBook nor YahooGroups are his competitors.

jonathon


moderated Business models was Re: [beta] Make Basic level accounts paid

Christopher Hallsworth <challsworth2@...>
 

Dear all,

Speaking of business models, I propose to you support for paying for advanced account level access via Paypal, including the option to set it up as a preapproved payment. This way, users do not have to have their credit/debit card on file but their Paypal account instead, should support for preapproved payments come into force.

On 25 Apr 2018, at 05:28, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:

Hi All,

This thread happened while I was on various planes.

I am totally fine with business model discussions, and there have been some interesting ideas discussed here, but these topics do tend to generate unfounded rumors and cause stress, which I’m unfortunately already seeing.

So, there is no need to delete your accounts! I’m not making any changes right now(i’m on vacation, and jet lagged!) If I ever do make any changes they will be discussed and telegraphed ahead of time. Remember, I didn’t start this thread.

Thanks,
Mark


moderated Re: Make Basic level accounts paid

Marina
 

On Tue, Apr 24, 2018 at 08:22 am, Barbara Byers wrote:


I totally disagree on charging for every level. You've gotten all these
groups to come over with the promise of free service, and then you're
going to take it back? I just don't think that is a great idea. The
hurdle of paying anything is kind of a big one for many groups who are
just social or volunteer.s
I agree with Barbara. I moved my Yahoo group here because the basic level of Groups.io was free. Otherwise, I would have made a different choice and moved elsewhere. My group has always been run for free, on a voluntary basis and I don't want to start charging my members now.
If the basic level has too many features to be sustainable in the long run (actually, this was one of my main concerns when thinking about moving), my group members and I would be happy even with a simpler version.

Marina


moderated Re: Make Basic level accounts paid

Jerome Kutche
 

Bob Bellizzi

 

Gutter language, Explain please. If Put Offish or the word Screwy offends.. Grow some think skin.

When were…

 

It was fast becoming a good runner up for Facebook.

 

From: main@beta.groups.io <main@beta.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Bellizzi
Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2018 7:43 PM
To: main@beta.groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] Make Basic level accounts paid

 

Please,  Jerome Kutche,
Keep the gutter language off this group.  
This isn't Facebook
--

Bob Bellizzi

Founder, Fuchs Friends ®
Founder & Executive Director, The Corneal Dystrophy Foundation


moderated Re: Make Basic level accounts paid

 

Paul,

My suggestion was that the current features included in the Basic level account are worthy of being paid, so making these features paid would be a good way to motivate me to becoming a paying customer, rather than adding new features or making other features cheaper.

There's always customer push-back to taking features away (which making them paid features effectively does when the feature was formerly included in your plan). For any given feature you choose to make paid, there will be a certain number of groups for which that was the "indispensable" feature, yet (for whatever reason) the group can't bring itself to pay for it. And there's a certain amount of "friction" to having too many choices - more work to implement and maintain, and more confusing to customers. What I'm saying is that the cost/benefit evaluation for splitting off any given feature would not be a simple one.

For example, there was an earlier conversation about having ala carte options for groups to buy additional storage space, without changing plan (or other features). I'm not sure what Mark's thoughts on that were, but I note that it hasn't happened. Yes, I know add-ons are not what you asked for, but it seems related to to the concept of having finer-grained choices than just Basic, Premium, and Enterprise.

Shal


moderated Re: Make Basic level accounts paid

Ellen Moody
 

Thank you to Shal for this explanation and also J_Catlady.  There has been much misunderstanding in this thread. I withdraw my comment.  For myself I want to stay but I feel as list moderator I made a decision for these groups so worried about it like some hen with chicks ....

Ellen, off to sleep now

On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 12:23 AM, Shal Farley <shals2nd@...> wrote:
Michael,

same here, if we have to pay for basic service, consider me gone.

That's not on the table, it is only in the imaginings of some members posting here.

Mark has committed to the "Freemium" business model, where the Basic groups are free, subsidized by the Premium and Enterprise groups. He's also rejected the idea of being ad-supported, and all the intrusiveness and tracking that too often goes with that model.

Shal



moderated Re: Make Basic level accounts paid

 

Hi All,

This thread happened while I was on various planes.

I am totally fine with business model discussions, and there have been some interesting ideas discussed here, but these topics do tend to generate unfounded rumors and cause stress, which I’m unfortunately already seeing.

So, there is no need to delete your accounts! I’m not making any changes right now(i’m on vacation, and jet lagged!) If I ever do make any changes they will be discussed and telegraphed ahead of time. Remember, I didn’t start this thread.

Thanks,
Mark


moderated Re: Make Basic level accounts paid

 

Michael,

same here, if we have to pay for basic service, consider me gone.

That's not on the table, it is only in the imaginings of some members posting here.

Mark has committed to the "Freemium" business model, where the Basic groups are free, subsidized by the Premium and Enterprise groups. He's also rejected the idea of being ad-supported, and all the intrusiveness and tracking that too often goes with that model.

Shal


moderated Re: Make Basic level accounts paid

Michael Capelle <mcapelle@...>
 

same here, if we have to pay for basic service, consider me gone.
 
 

Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2018 3:09 PM
Subject: Re: [beta] Make Basic level accounts paid
 

I am totally against basic members giving monthly payments regardless of the cost.  Some people might not be able afford even $1 a month.

 

If money is an issues, my suggestion would be maybe finding sponsors.

 

Have a blessed day! Steph

 

From: Armando
Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2018 2:22 PM
To: main@beta.groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] Make Basic level accounts paid

 

I totally disagree with paying $1 a month on the basic groups.io service. This is because this service always receive updates and is always maintenanced, while other services such as Google Groups/Yahoo Groups are sooooooooooooooooo outdated. Without the advantages of the Groups.io services, such as RSS Feed integration, I would have to manually send out my newsletter to my group. I agree on the donation part though.

 

--

Armando L. Vias

Student

Founder | Blindness Awareness and More

Website: www.blindnessawarenessandmoreblog.wordpress.com

Facebook: www.facebook.com/baamoreblog

Twitter: www.twitter.com/baamoreblog

Blindness Awareness and More Feedback Line: (724) 964-2111

Blindness Awareness and More Email Address: blindnessawarenessandmore@...

 

> On Apr 24, 2018, at 8:54 AM, Paul W. Rankin <paul@...> wrote:

>

> HI Mark,

>

> I'm a big believer in paying for the web services I use. I tend to agree with this (archived) post from the Pinboard blog: https://web.archive.org/web/20120921032442/https://blog.pinboard.in/2011/12/don_t_be_a_free_user/ and related Hacker News: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13449875. And there's evidence that paying users appreciate the product they pay for more than free users.

>

> Looking at the plans, the Basic level offers so much that I'm really surprised it's offered for free, but then looking at the Premium feature set, there's nothing there that I really want. I'd like to use my own domain, but mostly out of vanity, which is not enough to prompt me to go Enterprise (which is actually far too expensive for me). I'd like to pay for Groups.io but at the current pricing levels I don't have much motivation to do so.

>

> I saw your note regarding increasing revenue: https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/16791. IMHO the most obvious and easiest way to do this is to charge for Basic level accounts. If the Basic level cost something like $3/month or $30/year this would be an easy decision, and I'd be very skeptical of anyone who says they couldn't/wouldn't pay that to maintain their group.

>

> (This said, I also understand that people do run open source projects or volunteer groups where any expenditure becomes a sticking point, so I'd suggest there's still a space for a public-only free accounts that lack some/most of the features in Basic.)

>

> Paul

>

>

>

 

 

 


moderated Re: Make Basic level accounts paid

Paul W. Rankin <paul@...>
 

As a new user to Groups.io I was very surprised at the response to this thread. Discussion seemed to be quickly derailed away from the original topic.

To make things explicitly clear: I am not suggesting that a free tier be eliminated.

My position is that I wish to be a paying customer but currently do not see a good avenue to that. I felt that this might be a helpful thing for Mark to hear given his mention of increasing revenue. My intent was to communicate to Mark that I would like more motivation to become a paying customer.

My suggestion was that the current features included in the Basic level account are worthy of being paid, so making these features paid would be a good way to motivate me to becoming a paying customer, rather than adding new features or making other features cheaper. This does not entail eliminating a free tier. I apologise if this wasn't clear to anyone.

I am not soliciting suggestions on how I can make donations.

It is uncomfortable to wake up to an inbox full of irate people, so can I ask that off-topic replies be directed to a new thread, and only reply to this thread if you are responding to the topic.

Thank you.


moderated Re: Make Basic level accounts paid

Randy Thomson
 

I’ll bet that just about every permutation of opinion on this topic has been made more than once, and that it is about time for us to voluntarily put an end to this thread.

Randy T


moderated Re: Make Basic level accounts paid

Southenders Admin
 

I created a site that is 'premium'. There are very few premium features that we need. We are a group of retired guys who had a free ride at Yahoo for 10 years. It worked until it didn't. I think most of the groups here came because of what Yahoo is not. I can attest that Mark made changes to the RSVP feature that were very helpful to our group. And he responded quickly to the request. And brought more than asked for in the work around. While we'd rather have it free, we know what we get here is worth something. As a group of retired men, we know what the business world is about, and would love to see more of a business plan here because it gives an aura of stability. We'd rather not rely on "the kindness of strangers" (I'll let the young here look that phrase up), but be serviced by a business.

That being said, there are all types of free plans that Mark could have initiated if he wanted to, or do if he ever decides to. Who are we to advise him how to run his business? We are all users. None of those pro or con fees have discussed what is evident--the place works. Those here should consider themselves lucky, whether you pay, would like to pay, or not. It works. Shhh.
Leave the running to Mark. If he didn't know what he was doing, we wouldn't be here. If he want to be beneficent to those that need it, let it be. If you want a free ride but can afford to pay, enjoy. Let Groups.io continue to be what it is.

And I wouldn't be replying to this thread except that I am a member who wants to know what Beta is up to. But I get all the replies to this thread, and would like to see it go away. Without a mute.

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