For general Groups.io questions, please see the Group Managers Forum and Group_Help groups. Note: those groups are volunteer-led and are not officially run by Groups.io.
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Re: free accounts
Well the goal for a paid product isn't to gripe over the fact that you
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want to pay for it or not. This is why I'm against things being offered for free. People lose focus or sight of what they wish the group to be for all because of a number. I've seen countless people shy away from what they truly want, or even think they want to try because of money. It saddens me to think people expect everything for free. It's costing Mark money in bandwidth, servers, hosting, IP addresses, email programs, just to withstand groups.io itself. and the more people who use the service, no matter how much money it is, the more the cost goes up for him. It's not fair for him to have to ask people to cover a bill he might not expect to get. Because the outside world away from the internet is a paid world, with no option of whether things ought to be free or not. Paid products get the majority of the attention. Unless you cannot afford to pay money for anything. Only then can you target a majority. Singular group of users who refuse to, cannot, or will not pay money towards a product. Craig's List for example operates on such a principle. Buyer beware in other words. It might be crap. It might be decent. And it might be something to knock your socks off as it's so fantastic. But regardless, groups.io is not a service to sell something. it's a service to gain or benefit from communication tools. Everyone pays to communicate. You pay the internet company to keep your internet online. You pay your phone service. You pay your television provider, your satellite service. And you can pay for groups.io. Nobody is saying leave based on any kind of racial, financial or otherwise segregative scenario. It's just because if nobody paid, the bill would rest on either one of three (3) scenarios. 1. Angel investors. 2. Out of pocket expenses by the developer. 3. Nobody. If nobody paid, you know how quick nobody would be able to use groups.io at all? If angel Investors had control, it would work for a little while. But soon the funds would run out. Mark would have to make a lot of money to keep paying for the service just to keep the connection online. this is why I say to everyone. Free models work if you have enough money to cover the balance. As an independent service, this can't be the case for ever because of the costs involved in connecting computer with server. I'm just trying to think of long term goals that are consistent, stable and just work. You know who came up with such a resource? Posthaven. And it's worked for them. I want this product to thrive. but I also think it can only do that if regardless of who pays money, people use it to communicate ideas. Not problems.
On 4/24/18, Jerome Kutche <n9lya@nwcable.net> wrote:
I am group owner of a Raspberry Pi for Ham Radio Group.. It is a relatively
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Re: Make Basic level accounts paid
kr402
😊
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Re: Make Basic level accounts paid
Exactly. Home run.
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On Apr 24, 2018, at 2:38 PM, kr402 via Groups.Io <kr402@...> wrote:
-- J
Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones. I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu
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Re: Make Basic level accounts paid
kr402
I see nothing from Mark that this is the intent. free basic service is what gets most in the door.
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Re: Make Basic level accounts paid
Jerome Kutche
I agree with that… But to remove features unless someone pays now for an established group.. Well that sounds screwy…
From: main@beta.groups.io <main@beta.groups.io> On Behalf Of Paul W. Rankin
Thanks for all the responses. I would like to reiterate that the original suggestion is not to eliminate a free tier, only that the current Basic level offers more than enough value to the user to be paid.
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Re: Make Basic level accounts paid
Jerome Kutche
I would not be against something like ads on the site.. Especially if it benefitted MARKs efforts..
From: main@beta.groups.io <main@beta.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steph Mathews
Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2018 4:09 PM To: main@beta.groups.io Subject: Re: [beta] Make Basic level accounts paid
I am totally against basic members giving monthly payments regardless of the cost. Some people might not be able afford even $1 a month.
If money is an issues, my suggestion would be maybe finding sponsors.
Have a blessed day! Steph
From: Armando
I totally disagree with paying $1 a month on the basic groups.io service. This is because this service always receive updates and is always maintenanced, while other services such as Google Groups/Yahoo Groups are sooooooooooooooooo outdated. Without the advantages of the Groups.io services, such as RSS Feed integration, I would have to manually send out my newsletter to my group. I agree on the donation part though.
-- Armando L. Vias Student Founder | Blindness Awareness and More Website: www.blindnessawarenessandmoreblog.wordpress.com Facebook: www.facebook.com/baamoreblog Twitter: www.twitter.com/baamoreblog Blindness Awareness and More Feedback Line: (724) 964-2111 Blindness Awareness and More Email Address: blindnessawarenessandmore@...
> On Apr 24, 2018, at 8:54 AM, Paul W. Rankin <paul@...> wrote: > > HI Mark, > > I'm a big believer in paying for the web services I use. I tend to agree with this (archived) post from the Pinboard blog: https://web.archive.org/web/20120921032442/https://blog.pinboard.in/2011/12/don_t_be_a_free_user/ and related Hacker News: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13449875. And there's evidence that paying users appreciate the product they pay for more than free users. > > Looking at the plans, the Basic level offers so much that I'm really surprised it's offered for free, but then looking at the Premium feature set, there's nothing there that I really want. I'd like to use my own domain, but mostly out of vanity, which is not enough to prompt me to go Enterprise (which is actually far too expensive for me). I'd like to pay for Groups.io but at the current pricing levels I don't have much motivation to do so. > > I saw your note regarding increasing revenue: https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/16791. IMHO the most obvious and easiest way to do this is to charge for Basic level accounts. If the Basic level cost something like $3/month or $30/year this would be an easy decision, and I'd be very skeptical of anyone who says they couldn't/wouldn't pay that to maintain their group. > > (This said, I also understand that people do run open source projects or volunteer groups where any expenditure becomes a sticking point, so I'd suggest there's still a space for a public-only free accounts that lack some/most of the features in Basic.) > > Paul > > >
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Re: free accounts
Jerome Kutche
I disagree with your assessment.. Assuming, we would not be willing to pay for it, is because we are poor is a bit insulting..
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-----Original Message-----
From: main@beta.groups.io <main@beta.groups.io> On Behalf Of Elshara Silverheart Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2018 3:48 PM To: main@beta.groups.io Subject: Re: [beta] free accounts I understand your concern. For people who are on low, fixed income or who just want to budget their resources, free groups should exist. So long as the group is honoring such a service or about such a service. If someone says they're on disability but starts a group for a service lots of members make good money at. Such as construction work. Or office support. I could kind of see how the paid model would be a better fit for the groups sake. On 4/24/18, jamie <jaimemcgill27@gmail.com> wrote: hi all
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Re: free accounts
Jerome Kutche
I am group owner of a Raspberry Pi for Ham Radio Group.. It is a relatively large group. But it is all for a Hobby.. Ham Radio and Raspberry Pis. If had to pay for it. I might be inclined too, then I might not be… Its only a Hobby… So if we had to have some dumbed down free version.. it would mean looking at changes and what was taken away. What is the cost involved to keep it at a paid level. Is it worth it to me… What do you get for your $$$ Do I want to leave all 3000+ Members in the dark. Should I have really left Yahoo and came here or was that in reality a bad choice?
Just saying a lot to consider.. I have just went thru and deleted several Minor Groups I have no interest in paying for. Only had 2 members anyway.. lol They were futile.. at best.
Moving to Groups.io was nice and easy and appreciated.. Just remember this for me is an extension of our Hobby… Depends on costs vs benefits…
With that said.. I may Pay something… Just depends.. 73 Jerry
Just my 2 ¢
From: main@beta.groups.io <main@beta.groups.io> On Behalf Of jamie
Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2018 1:06 PM To: main@beta.groups.io Subject: [beta] free accounts
hi all i think there should be free accounts still for people with disabilities who need online friendships or use groups.io as ahobbie who like to make groups for friends so i voat yes for free accounts still chat soon jamie
From: main@beta.groups.io [mailto:main@beta.groups.io] On Behalf Of J_Catlady
On Tue, Apr 24, 2018 at 09:37 am, Bruce Bowman wrote: in my opinion Mark is already giving away too much That's possible. I don't think it's necessarily a bad idea to cut down on the functionality in the free version. But I think there should always be a free version, if for no other purpose than to lure new people in (should I say, less cynically, "build new relationships"?) and build trust with them.
Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones. I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu
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Re: Make Basic level accounts paid
Paul W. Rankin <paul@...>
Thanks for all the responses. I would like to reiterate that the original suggestion is not to eliminate a free tier, only that the current Basic level offers more than enough value to the user to be paid.
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Re: Make Basic level accounts paid
I am totally against basic members giving monthly payments regardless of the cost. Some people might not be able afford even $1 a month.
If money is an issues, my suggestion would be maybe finding sponsors.
Have a blessed day! Steph
From: Armando
Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2018 2:22 PM To: main@beta.groups.io Subject: Re: [beta] Make Basic level accounts paid
I totally disagree with paying $1 a month on the basic groups.io service. This is because this service always receive updates and is always maintenanced, while other services such as Google Groups/Yahoo Groups are sooooooooooooooooo outdated. Without the advantages of the Groups.io services, such as RSS Feed integration, I would have to manually send out my newsletter to my group. I agree on the donation part though.
-- Armando L. Vias Student Founder | Blindness Awareness and More Website: www.blindnessawarenessandmoreblog.wordpress.com Facebook: www.facebook.com/baamoreblog Twitter: www.twitter.com/baamoreblog Blindness Awareness and More Feedback Line: (724) 964-2111 Blindness Awareness and More Email Address: blindnessawarenessandmore@...
> On Apr 24, 2018, at 8:54 AM, Paul W. Rankin <paul@...> wrote: > > HI Mark, > > I'm a big believer in paying for the web services I use. I tend to agree with this (archived) post from the Pinboard blog: https://web.archive.org/web/20120921032442/https://blog.pinboard.in/2011/12/don_t_be_a_free_user/ and related Hacker News: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13449875. And there's evidence that paying users appreciate the product they pay for more than free users. > > Looking at the plans, the Basic level offers so much that I'm really surprised it's offered for free, but then looking at the Premium feature set, there's nothing there that I really want. I'd like to use my own domain, but mostly out of vanity, which is not enough to prompt me to go Enterprise (which is actually far too expensive for me). I'd like to pay for Groups.io but at the current pricing levels I don't have much motivation to do so. > > I saw your note regarding increasing revenue: https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/16791. IMHO the most obvious and easiest way to do this is to charge for Basic level accounts. If the Basic level cost something like $3/month or $30/year this would be an easy decision, and I'd be very skeptical of anyone who says they couldn't/wouldn't pay that to maintain their group. > > (This said, I also understand that people do run open source projects or volunteer groups where any expenditure becomes a sticking point, so I'd suggest there's still a space for a public-only free accounts that lack some/most of the features in Basic.) > > Paul > > >
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Re: Make Basic level accounts paid
Sue
>There will always be a place for the free, entry-level option, but in my opinion Mark is already giving away too much.
Mark has certainly been generous with his features. In my group which is small and hobby related, we don’t need or use many of the features but were Mark to consider some of the suggestions made here and cut down on the options in the free version, it might well be hard to reach any sort of consensus as to what should be lost (whilst always remembering that the ultimate decisions would be Mark’s).
I think there would always be a need to have a free version to capture those groups that have been used to free at Yahoo. I found Groups io when searching for somewhere to move our group and had it not been free I would have moved on in my search – and in doing so missed out on the excellent service Mark provides. The rock bottom, fundamental selling point of Groups io is that it works! I created my group over two years ago and it is still such a pleasure to just click a button and have it work, but convincing somebody of the vast difference between here and Yahoo would be hard if they had to pay to find out the truth of it. At the very least, there should be a trial period so people could test it for themselves.
Having already said we use very few of the features, I would add that therefore we have no need of the premium version and I don’t think asking for donations to keep our group going would work. I would, however, support the option to make optional, ad hoc payments. I’ve done that before for free programmes that I’ve been particularly impressed with and would happily do it here as well.
Sue
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Re: free accounts
I understand your concern.
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For people who are on low, fixed income or who just want to budget their resources, free groups should exist. So long as the group is honoring such a service or about such a service. If someone says they're on disability but starts a group for a service lots of members make good money at. Such as construction work. Or office support. I could kind of see how the paid model would be a better fit for the groups sake.
On 4/24/18, jamie <jaimemcgill27@gmail.com> wrote:
hi all
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Re: Make Basic level accounts paid
I tried that wiht my podcast and for me that did not work. I got a bunch of emails saying, can I have this for free and that for free etc? Then I lost about half of my subscribers. This after 12 years by the way of podcasting. So this is a hard battle.
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Re: Make Basic level accounts paid
I do feel that Google Groups works well as a free model because Google
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gets money in other ways. Groups.io would use its own service for primary funding, so as long as enough people pay for groups, having an option to have a free group based on specific needs shouldn't harm the platform too badly. Although I am someone who feels paid services are a must in 2018, I understand why people feel among certain applications it wouldn't make sense to pay for a way to connect with two or more people professionally. Would this not be the reason why Google Groups could be useful still? I could understand it then. As a company not connected to any big player, groups.io would be ideal. Perhaps having both a google and a groups.io group may be useful in this regard.
On 4/24/18, Barbara Byers <babmay11@provide.net> wrote:
I agree. My groups have a zero budget. They are for 1) families of
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Re: Make Basic level accounts paid
jamie <jaimemcgill27@...>
hi all i do agree with this last message all of my groups are for people with disabilities and any future groups i may do will be the same and this service is easyer to use and i hope mark carrys on his free basic accounts for us who can not pay the cost jamie
From: main@beta.groups.io [mailto:main@beta.groups.io] On Behalf Of Barbara Byers
Sent: 24 April 2018 20:40 To: main@beta.groups.io Subject: Re: [beta] Make Basic level accounts paid
I agree. My groups have a zero budget. They are for 1) families of individuals with autism, and then a larger group for families of special needs students in our school district. So folks are not going to pay. I would do the same, maybe make a couple of small donations in gratitude for being rescued from the Yahoogroups meltdown, but if we had to pay I would also probably just go back and muddle along with Yahoogroups or Googlegroups. Looks like it is very easy for someone to pay if they want to, so go right ahead if that is what you prefer. As long as Mark is committed to maintaining some level of basic free service, I am very grateful for that. Also, I would say that if push came to shove, I would rather see ads than have to pay. Barb B
On 2018-04-24 02:37 PM, Randy Thomson via Groups.Io wrote:
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Re: Make Basic level accounts paid
Barbara Byers
I agree. My groups have a zero budget. They are for 1) families of individuals with autism, and then a larger group for families of special needs students in our school district. So folks are not going to pay. I would do the same, maybe make a couple of small donations in gratitude for being rescued from the Yahoogroups meltdown, but if we had to pay I would also probably just go back and muddle along with Yahoogroups or Googlegroups. Looks like it is very easy for someone to pay if they want to, so go right ahead if that is what you prefer. As long as Mark is committed to maintaining some level of basic free service, I am very grateful for that. Also, I would say that if push came to shove, I would rather see ads than have to pay. Barb B
On 2018-04-24 02:37 PM, Randy Thomson via Groups.Io wrote:
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Re: Make Basic level accounts paid
Armando <a.vias@...>
I totally disagree with paying $1 a month on the basic groups.io service. This is because this service always receive updates and is always maintenanced, while other services such as Google Groups/Yahoo Groups are sooooooooooooooooo outdated. Without the advantages of the Groups.io services, such as RSS Feed integration, I would have to manually send out my newsletter to my group. I agree on the donation part though.
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-- Armando L. Vias Student Founder | Blindness Awareness and More Website: www.blindnessawarenessandmoreblog.wordpress.com Facebook: www.facebook.com/baamoreblog Twitter: www.twitter.com/baamoreblog Blindness Awareness and More Feedback Line: (724) 964-2111 Blindness Awareness and More Email Address: blindnessawarenessandmore@outlook.com
On Apr 24, 2018, at 8:54 AM, Paul W. Rankin <paul@bydasein.com> wrote:
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Re: Make Basic level accounts paid
Randy Thomson
As the volunteer owner of a Group that serves as a communications channel
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for the board of directors (17 Group members) of a small (currently under 50 members) non-profit with a very low budget, if I had had to pay to move to Groups.io, I would probably have just toughed it out with Yahoo, or possibly shifted to Google. I appreciate having had the opportunity to move to Groups, and will likely make a small personal donation, but I wouldn't ask the group to budget it. Many internet services provide free assistance to 501(c)3's (US non-profit tax designation). For example, VerticalResponse, which we use for eblasts to the total membership, allows non-profits 5000 free emails/month. We don't come close to that limit. If our organization had five hundred dues paying members, then, I'm sure all of the above would change. Randy T
-----Original Message-----
From: main@beta.groups.io <main@beta.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2018 11:49 AM To: Groups.Io Beta List <main@beta.groups.io> Subject: Re: [beta] Make Basic level accounts paid Personally I don't think this is a good idea. I'm one of the ones who can't pay $30 a year which is why I went with groups.io when making my switch from mail man..
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Re: Make Basic level accounts paid
Barbara Byers
I just checked this out, that is great that there actually is an option to change to premium for one month! I was thinking I would have to toggle back and forth from Basic to Premium. Basically the same as a one time $10 donation. Thanks! Barb B
On 2018-04-24 11:27 AM, Lena wrote:
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Re: Make Basic level accounts paid
Changes in moderator functions, storage space, etc would be mostly transparent to non-moderators.
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On Apr 24, 2018, at 11:06 AM, Sharon Villines <sharon@sharonvillines.com> wrote:On Apr 24, 2018, at 1:19 PM, J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@gmail.com> wrote:How could changes only affect the group owners? --
J Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones. I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu
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