Date   

moderated A couple of (I think) simple suggestions

Randy Thomson
 

As the moderator of a recently transferred Yahoo group, and new to Groups.io, I would like to make a couple of suggestions.

First, that a brief Help topic be added for Group Transfer. Granted the link is at the bottom of every page, and maybe I'm the only one that rarely looks for something useful at the bottom of the page, but a brief entry in Help that just says "Look for the link at the bottom of any page to get instructions." would be most helpful for others, like me, who require "Groups.io for Dummies".

Secondly, occasionally I need to review an early message, moderator activity, or other item which is presented in a list with "< 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9  >" at the bottom. When the list is very long, unless I have a good idea of the date it's very difficult to reach the early (or if already at the earliest, then the latest) entries in a list (unless I missed something). Adding "Got to First" and "Go to Last" links, i.e., "<< < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 > >>" would make that very convenient.

Thanks,
Randy


moderated Re: RSVP request

Southenders Admin
 

Mark, any update on what can be done to make RSVP's more visible?


moderated Re: T & Cs / Privacy Policy #suggestion

Chris Jones
 

Oh well it was a good idea while it lasted... it's just that it didn't last very long. :(

Is there a solution? Let me guess...

Regards,

Chris


moderated Re: T & Cs / Privacy Policy #suggestion

 

On Mon, Apr 9, 2018 at 5:19 AM, Chris Jones via Groups.Io <chrisjones12@...> wrote:

In addition there is no "obvious" way of finding the Privacy Policy. Can I suggest that "Terms" at the bottom of every page be amended to read Terms & Privacy Policy, or for Privacy Policy to have its own separate entry on the bottom line.

Even if you don't like the checkbox idea adding "Privacy Policy" should be uncontroversial. :)

You'd think. :-)  It's 'Terms' right now because, on tablet sized screens, that's all that will fit in the footer without breaking the footer into two lines.


Mark

 


locked Re: EU General Data Protection Regulation

 

Hi All,

I appreciate the discussion about GDPR. It's been on my radar for awhile, but it hasn't made it to the top of the TODO list until now. I'm scheduling some time with our lawyers this week to figure out exactly what I need to do. My plan and hope is for Groups.io to be in compliance by the deadline.

I've created a new page, https://groups.io/static/compliance, which will be updated with our compliance status. I will also post here when I have more information.

Thanks,
Mark


locked Re: EU General Data Protection Regulation

Chris Jones
 

On Mon, Apr 9, 2018 at 09:20 am, Marv Waschke wrote:
I am not a lawyer, etc.
And neither am I! There is (perhaps) a weakness in the current system.

See my #Suggestion in T & Cs / Privacy Policy.

Sorry; for some reason I cannot change the font size on this Group. Weird...

Chris


locked Re: EU General Data Protection Regulation

Marv Waschke
 

I am not a lawyer, etc. But I have dealt with EU privacy issues with products my team developed and spent a lot of time discussing the issues with both US and EU lawyers.Keep in mind that I look at things from the viewpoint of a multi-national corporation with products disseminated in close to every country on the planet and wants to keep it that way. I retired several years ago, so my info is not current, although I try to keep up.

This is just my impression, but I think email discussion forums may be in for a rough ride. I suggest we all keep our eyes open and be prepared for some tough decisions. From discussions I have listened in on, I believe it is quite possible that the GDPR may require that every single post from a member be removed on the member's request. That may include quotations in other posts. Statements of non-compliance in click-through TOSs are often shaky in court.

All this will be subject to interpretation and no one knows how it will turn out. As far as jurisdiction is concerned, I doubt that US Marshals are likely to put any groups.io group owners on planes to Brussels, but I do think that group owners who refuse to cooperate might find that they have problems traveling to the EU or might see interference in their finances in EU institutions. These are only possibilities, but I take them seriously. The future is notoriously hard to predict.

What am I doing now? Basically, nothing. Responding to a full-on request to delete a member's entire history will be tough and I hope it does not happen. At the moment, I don't see any reasonable way to prepare for it. Investing in half-cocked preparation for legal interpretations that may or may not materialize is seldom a winning strategy, but putting a little thought into what could be done if decisions don't go our way is often worth the trouble. For example, putting some thought (NOT code for heaven's sake) into ways of segregating member's quoted material for easy removal might be a good way to spend an idle moment. I would also keep in mind that good faith efforts to comply are often rewarded.

I think Mark has to worry about where data is stored, but I have an impression that will not be difficult. The cloud storage providers have been thinking about that for a decade at least.

I hope these observations are helpful, but they are only speculation.
Best, Marv Waschke


moderated Re: Embedded groups.io photo gallery

Benoît Dumeaux
 

How can I use easly for my messages, the photos or files stock to groups.io?


moderated Allow subgroups to have subgroups

Beth Weld
 

I'm hoping to move my group from yahoo to groups.io shortly, and the subgroup feature is a powerful motivator.  However I really need to build on that structure to further organize and streamline the various functions of my group.  An example:
Main Group
   Subgroup Meetings
          Subgroup   2018
                 Subgroup April
                 Subgroup May
If we had this structure, all items for the April, 2018 meeting including conversations would be contained in a subgroup that is easy to maintain.  This would cut down on hundreds (or thousands after a year or two) of emails in the Meetings subgroup that can be hard to search and maintain.

We currently have dozens of yahoo groups that I plan to bring under one umbrella, but a natural subgroup hierarchy would make life so much easier than having 1 level of (again) dozens of subgroups and growing every month.

Thanks
Beth


moderated T & Cs / Privacy Policy #suggestion

Chris Jones
 

Mark; this suggestion (or related suggestions) have come to mind following the "GDPR" thread on this forum.

I first came to Groups.io when a Yahoo Group of which I was a member migrated over. Since then a second Group came across, followed in December when the Group of which I am a Moderator moved over.

My memory might be playing tricks, but I have no recollection of being asked to accept the Ts & Cs or the Privacy Policy. Does this also apply to individuals who sign up?

If this is the case, then it might be better if everyone coming to Groups.io for the first time was required to tick a checkbox confirming that they had read (and understood?) both. I would suggest that the preamble to the checkbox provides links to both documents.

In addition there is no "obvious" way of finding the Privacy Policy. Can I suggest that "Terms" at the bottom of every page be amended to read Terms & Privacy Policy, or for Privacy Policy to have its own separate entry on the bottom line.

Even if you don't like the checkbox idea adding "Privacy Policy" should be uncontroversial. :)

Thanks,

Chris


moderated Re: yet another "Likes" request: see all my "Likes" #suggestion

Benoît Dumeaux
 

- A notification alert when users can like your post.
- In profile section one can see the likes given and received by a user so far.
 - Interface to see various stats like it's possible to see the numbers of messages by month.


locked Re: EU General Data Protection Regulation

 

Chris,

As they stand Groups.io's Privacy Rules /clearly/ exclude anything
posted in a Group Message.
I assume you refer to:
"This Privacy Policy shall not apply to any unsolicited information you
provide to Groups.io through the Services or through any other means."

So Groups.io's policy doesn't apply, but what effect does that have on the topic at hand (the EU General Data Protection Regulation)? That is, is it plausibly the case that having stated this as the rule for participation in Groups.io's groups that such notification and tacit agreement will satisfy the requirements of the law?

I'd like to think so, but I don't pretend to have delved into the actual requirements of any EU laws.

Even in the U.S., "shrink-wrap" agreements, agreements that take effect because you used a product (opened its packaging) don't always hold in court. Though as far as I know they've only been voided in cases where they contained rather egregious terms and conditions, and I don't think this is such a case.

The other bit of common sense here is that the TOS requires one to grant a rather complete license to Groups.io for the display and use of your content. Having granted such a license it would be hard to claim with a straight face that the information is deserving of strict privacy protection.

Shal


locked Re: EU General Data Protection Regulation

Chris Jones
 

On Mon, Apr 9, 2018 at 03:08 am, Shal Farley wrote:
This speaks to my common-sense argument that the privacy rules, and in particular the right to be forgotten, shouldn't be applicable to group messages
As they stand Groups.io's Privacy Rules clearly exclude anything posted in a Group Message.

Chris


locked Re: EU General Data Protection Regulation

 

Marina,

However, even if you manage to delete all past messages sent by a
member ... this does not grant his/her right to oblivion as parts of
the original messages may be disseminate in other members' replies.
Quite true. And while it is technically possible for a moderator to go through and edit each post with a quote of that member, that would likely be completely impractical in practice for an active member.

This speaks to my common-sense argument that the privacy rules, and in particular the right to be forgotten, shouldn't be applicable to group messages, for much the same reason they won't be applied to newspapers: the postings are intended, purposefully, for dissemination (at least among group members). They are in that sense published works, even if the distribution is limited.

But yes, I know, the law is an ass, having no regard for common sense.
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/the_law_is_an_ass

(by the way, I couldn'f find a "bulk remove" option under All Posts by
this Member)
That feature does not exist. I fear we'll all rue the day it does. It seems like a quick way to destroy the useful content of a group.

There's a reason that the word "archive" is often used to describe a group's store of messages: it carries the connotation that they are something of value.

Shal


locked Re: EU General Data Protection Regulation

Chris Jones
 

On Mon, Apr 9, 2018 at 02:11 am, Marina wrote:
However, even if you manage to delete all past messages sent by a member (by the way, I couldn'f find a "bulk remove" option under All Posts by this Member), this does not grant his/her right to oblivion as parts of the original messages may be disseminate in other members' replies.
If you read Gerald's post above I think you will find that this is a non - problem. At the risk of "padding" I will repost a highly relevant paragraph that he quoted from the Privacy Policy.

Exclusions

This Privacy Policy does not apply to any Personal Data collected by Groups.io other than Personal Data collected through the Services. This Privacy Policy shall not apply to any unsolicited information you provide to Groups.io through the Services or through any other means. This includes, but is not limited to, information posted to any public areas of the Services, such as forums, any ideas for new products or modifications to existing products, and other unsolicited submissions (collectively, “Unsolicited Information”). All Unsolicited Information shall be deemed to be non-confidential and Groups.io shall be free to reproduce, use, disclose, and distribute such Unsolicited Information to others without limitation or attribution.

The sentences in bold have been highlighted by me. In other words, if someone puts something "personal" in a Group Post then it's their responsibility, not that of Groups.io. It also addresses the point made by Shal earlier in this thread:

I like Chris' idea of just removing their display name and other meta-data from the content, thereby anonymizing it. But that may not cut it, and no doubt Chris has identified the bug-a-boo: personal info within the content.

I would have thought that just removing the original Display Name would be perfectly adequate.

The real problem will arise with individual Groups that for whatever reason collect personal information about their members as part of the Groups raison d'etre. A further potential problem is the ability of some types of Group to be able to download a list of previous members. Now that might prove contentious.

Chris



locked Re: EU General Data Protection Regulation

Marina
 

On Sun, Apr 8, 2018 at 05:03 pm, Shal Farley wrote:


Fortunately though, at least with respect to message postings, it is
easy to comply with a retrieval request (so long as web delivery is
permissible) - just provide the "All Posts By This Member" link
That sounds a good way to deal with privacy requests.
However, even if you manage to delete all past messages sent by a member (by the way, I couldn'f find a "bulk remove" option under All Posts by this Member), this does not grant his/her right to oblivion as parts of the original messages may be disseminate in other members' replies.

Marina


locked Re: EU General Data Protection Regulation

Marina
 

On Sun, Apr 8, 2018 at 07:29 am, Victoria wrote:


So I have just installed our own privacy policy regulations into my group´s
files.

I used a free generator, created by lawyers, which poses a few questions
concerning the type of declaration you need. This generator then creates the
declaration covering your special issues.

I don´t know if in Italy the same is possible. If you spoke German I could
send you the link to the generator.
Thank you for your offer, but unfortunately I don't speak German.
I shall try and set up a privacy policy. Ideally, prospective members should have a chance to read it before even sending a subscription request.

Marina


locked Re: EU General Data Protection Regulation

 

On 8 Apr 2018, at 15:47, Ford Amateur Astronomy Club <info@...> wrote:

The fact that Groups.io is hosted outside the EU means nothing as they plan on aggressively perusing any and all companies to make their point. The question is will they go afer Groups.io or the group owner.

Hi Liam,

I’m interested in what evidence you have seen that this is so? I am involved in a number of UK/EU government roundtable departmental meetings (connected with intellectual property) in which the GDPR has come up as a discussion point. I have not heard anything from the EU officials side that they 'plan on aggressively pursuing any and all companies’ as you say.

As a side note, the fact that the UK is leaving the EU won’t make any difference to anything (as far as the UK is concerned) as the EU acquis as it stands will be implemented into UK law (regulations such as the GDPR have direct effect anyway and directives will have been transposed into UK statute).

kind regards

Nick
__

dUNMUR | member of the Association of Photographers


moderated Re: yet another "Likes" request: see all my "Likes" #suggestion

 

Related to that, I would also like to be able to see the Likes by another member. So the feature would display all "Likes" by any member, myself or another member, similar to displaying all posts by that member.
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated yet another "Likes" request: see all my "Likes" #suggestion

 

It would be nice to be able to get a list of all posts I have "Liked." Among other things, it would serve as a sort of bookmark function.
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu