Date   

moderated Re: automatic deletion, why?

Barbara Byers
 

Yes, I already read that, but it doesn't really answer my question, if there is a actual problem to doing nothing.

"...The reason is a concern that if Groups.io were to continue sending messages to that address then the email service provider might "punish" Groups.io by (more frequently) relegating other members' messages to their spam boxes."

Is this a real negative or just speculation of what "might" happen?  Since it seems like members are already being punished by being unsubscribed simply because a message goes into spam and they delete it.  Right?

I fully admit I am not a techie person, so perhaps this is a horrible real threat.  In that case, feel free to be condescending and laugh at me.  It just seems like the automatic unsubscribing is causing a lot of angst, as evidenced by the volume of messages about it.

Barb

 


On 2018-03-19 06:25 PM, Bruce Bowman wrote:

On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 01:02 pm, Barbara Byers wrote:

Maybe I am just missing it, but why does groups.io care if their emails go to a spam folder, it's not their (groups.io) fault and they (groups.io) can't control it.
https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum/message/6243

Bruce


moderated Re: automatic deletion, why?

 

It seems to be groundhog day around here...

On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 3:25 PM, Bruce Bowman <bruce.bowman@...> wrote:
On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 01:02 pm, Barbara Byers wrote:
Maybe I am just missing it, but why does groups.io care if their emails go to a spam folder, it's not their (groups.io) fault and they (groups.io) can't control it.
https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum/message/6243

Bruce



--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: automatic deletion, why?

Bruce Bowman
 

On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 01:02 pm, Barbara Byers wrote:
Maybe I am just missing it, but why does groups.io care if their emails go to a spam folder, it's not their (groups.io) fault and they (groups.io) can't control it.
https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum/message/6243

Bruce


moderated Re: order of sending welcome message and group guidelines #suggestion

 

Mark,

Thanks. I will email you at support about at least one situation that does not fit this - namely, an email address that already had an account was sent a confirmation email after requesting membership via email. (Before doing that, I will run the test again. I think I ran it several times already but will do that again to be sure.)

In general, why are the two sequences - request join via email and request join via the web - so different? It is confusing to moderators (at least this one:). I would assume (and was assuming) that in both cases, the confirmation email and the pending subscription notice are sent immediately upon the join request. Yet you say here that in the case of requesting via email, they have to confirm before receiving the notice. Is there a reason why? I ask because it would give me some guidance about when to query them outside the system about whether they've received the pending notice. And also, if it is at all possible, it would be more helpful and clear if in both cases, they were done the same way.

Also: could you also possibly add to these sequences the "appropriate messages to moderators" that you said you've left out here? I sometimes have no idea what's going on when I see a pending member without an NC, or with an NC. I look in their email delivery history to see what they've last been sent (but that is often less than illuminating). Sometimes I will immediately "resent" the pending subscription notice, but now I see that in some cases, they were not SUPPOSED to have been sent it yet. I would like to know precisely when in these sequences the "appropriate message to moderators" are sent.

Finally: I understood, perhaps wrongly, that in a premium group, once we approve the membership it also confirms them. I have some memory of when you made that change. Yet recently, there have been several members we've approved who are still NC. Did this change, or am I misremembering?

Thanks!
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Yahoo screwup today

 

Great!
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Yahoo screwup today

 

J

On Sat, Mar 17, 2018 at 8:18 AM, J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

I'm glad this was fixed, but as a heads up, I'm not sure it does anything about the bug I sent you yesterday, where I'm getting log entries that banned members are bouncing. It happened to be a yahoo-email member yesterday, so I thought at first it was part of the yahoo snafu, but I don't think it is. It's probably an easy fix. 

I've changed it and you should no longer get bouncing or unbouncing log entries for banned people.

Thanks,
Mark 


moderated Re: Y!G transfer and collapse topics

Benoît Dumeaux
 

Video off the problem


moderated Calendar defaults

Bruce Carter
 

Could there be an addition to allow us to set the defaults?  Right now it defaults to all day event, then unchecked it defaults to one hour.  The vast majority of our events are half hour.  Also, it would be nice to set up default notifications.  Right now it defaults to none.  If I could pre-set these things in my group, it would save a lot of time.


moderated Re: order of sending welcome message and group guidelines #suggestion

 

Hi J,

On Thu, Mar 15, 2018 at 3:49 PM, J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:
There seem to be some anomalies between the relative chronologies of member confirmation, sending of the Welcome Notice, and sending of the Group Guidelines (if set to be sent on join).


Here are the steps involved in subscribing, via web or via email, as I just verified on my test machine:

Subscribe via web (ignoring appropriate messages to the moderators):

- If new user, create the user as not confirmed, send a confirmation email to them.
- Add a subscription to the group. If the group is restricted, this is a pending subscription.
- If the group is restricted, send the active pending subscription notice, if any, otherwise, send the welcome notice and guidelines.


Subscribe via email (ignoring appropriate messages to the moderators):
- If new user, create the user as not confirmed.
- Send a subscription confirmation email.
- Upon receipt of a reply to that subscription confirmation email:
  - Add a subscription to the group. If the group is restricted, this is a pending subscription.
  - If the group is restricted, send the active pending subscription notice, if any, otherwise send the welcome notice and guidelines.


Approve subscription via web:
- Send the group guidelines and active welcome message, if any.

Approve subscription via email:
- Send the group guidelines and active welcome message, if any.


Thanks,
Mark


moderated Re: automatic deletion, why?

Barbara Byers
 

My recommendation would be to do nothing.  Stop unsubscribing them.  It seems like the subscriber needs to fix it themselves.  Maybe I am just missing it, but why does groups.io care if their emails go to a spam folder, it's not their (groups.io) fault and they (groups.io) can't control it.

Barb

 


On 2018-03-19 03:50 PM, RickGlaz wrote:

I think I nailed the bug, but a second opinion from the OP is still reassuring...
Sorry if I'm rushing too much...

RickGlaz

On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 11:29 am, RickGlaz wrote:

Remember how Screwed up Yahoo Groups got when they loaded it up with lots
of extra stuff. Be Careful what you ask for... ;-(

Speaking of which, I'm chasing an error in sending...
I've set up the correct scenario.
IF "groetjes, Ronaldo" (ONLY) sees my/this exact reply come back more than once
PLEASE let me know either way. 1, 2, etc...

Rick

On March 19, 2018 at 9:49 AM ro-esp <ro-esp@...> wrote:


I'm not sure why anyone would have a feature unsubscribing people
automatically. Wouldn it be far more practical if messages being sent
back or reported as spam would trigger a message to the moderator like:

message such-and such was reported as spam by pq@.../ sent back by
provider xxyy. Do you wish to contact the member or unsubscribe him/her
?


groetjes, Ronaldo



moderated Re: automatic deletion, why?

Bob Bellizzi
 

Unless you review the entire thread of this subject or you've been a mail server software specialist or something similar, you won't understand it.

--

Bob Bellizzi

Founder, Fuchs Friends ®
Founder & Executive Director, The Corneal Dystrophy Foundation


moderated Re: Make Database Link Title and Description optional

 

On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 7:58 AM, Tom H <ve3meo@...> wrote:
Could the Input form for a Link field in a database be changed to make the Title and Description optional, leaving only the URL mandatory? If Title is empty, then display the URL.

I've changed it so that titles and descriptions are optional, even with required columns.

Cheers,
Mark 


moderated Re: Visibility in Privacy section of group Settings page - s/archive/message archive/

 

On Sat, Mar 10, 2018 at 5:33 PM, Shal Farley <shals2nd@...> wrote:

It has become almost a FAQ in GMF to explain that the Visibility option refers to the messages only. Many people interpret "archive" more broadly to include other areas of the group.

I recommend adding the word "message" in front of each use of the word "archive" - in the drop-list entries as well as the sentence below the control.

Either that or simply replace "archive" with "Messages".

I've replaced archive with messages, and added the word group in some places to hopefully make things more clear.

Thanks,
Mark 


moderated automatic deletion, why?

ro-esp
 

I'm not sure why anyone would have a feature unsubscribing people automatically. Wouldn it be far more practical if messages being sent back or reported as spam would trigger a message to the moderator like:

message such-and such was reported as spam by pq@.../ sent back by provider xxyy. Do you wish to contact the member or unsubscribe him/her ?


groetjes, Ronaldo


moderated Re: Automatic Deletion of Members / Spam Messages #suggestion

Bob Bellizzi
 

In future, there should be a reference & link to the help article for further expansion of information in re the potential issues for groups.io should it not perform this unsubscribe.
--

Bob Bellizzi

Founder, Fuchs Friends ®
Founder & Executive Director, The Corneal Dystrophy Foundation


moderated Re: Automatic Deletion of Members / Spam Messages #suggestion

 

Chris,

I have joined this Group prompted by Shal Farley following problems
caused by the automatic deletion of members following an email sent to
them being marked as spam.
For other's curiosity, this topic:
https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum/topic/15036408

A large part of the overall problem can be put down to the absence of
any “help” published in the Help section ...
I agree. Having a fuller explanation on site somewhere (written for the member and for the group admins), and cited in their respective notices, might head off a lot of misunderstandings.

I don’t want to go too far down that route until I have at least tried
to have one or two *minor* changes introduced; I would only have to
amend the help shortly after I had written it.
Good thing wikis are trivial to amend. ;-)

Turning now to the message sent to the member concerned ...
I like your replacement of "you have marked" with "has been marked". I would also add "sent to you" so as to retain the context of why this message is going to this member.

For brevity I would drop the "Please note..." sentence; that's redundantly stated by the following sentence suggesting that the member check their Spam folder. I also would discard the parenthetical about the ESP possibly being different than the ISP - it just introduces an extraneous question. So I would suggest:

-----
Because your Email Service Provider reported to us that one or more
messages sent to you from [GroupName]@groups.io has been marked as spam
you have been automatically removed from the group. We suggest that you
check your spam box as soon as possible to see if your Email Service
Provider has diverted legitimate messages into it. For further information see [link to aforementioned explanation].
-----

Shal


moderated Re: Automatic Deletion of Members / Spam Messages #suggestion

Frances
 

Sorry, my quotation made it look like Chris was recommending the wording to the owner. He was quoting from the Groups.io message.

Frances


moderated Re: Automatic Deletion of Members / Spam Messages #suggestion

Frances
 

On Sun, Mar 18, 2018 at 10:16 am, Chris Jones wrote:

To turn off this notification, log into https://groups.io and edit your subscription.

 I have never understood why an owner or moderator would want to turn off the notification that they get. The way it is presented, it seems to be almost recommending this. Surely the owner / moderators want to know that there are members being unsubscribed due to spam.

Perhaps it should say, that you may modify your notifications if you wish. Log into .....

Happy with the proposed notice to the unsubscribed member. 
Except perhaps saying that deleting an email from your inbox does not trigger the spam action and is safe to do if you wish. (Or something like that - there are people who want to clean up their inbox!)

Frances


moderated Digest link to "view all messages in topic" #suggestion

Traveler
 

First, great forum, thanks!

It would a small but nice enhancement to include a link for messages in a digest to the "view all messages in topic" view.

Currently, the assumption is that when you click, you want to reply to the message.

For me, it is more common that I want to see the full context of the messages in the discussion thread.

I have trained myself to click reply and then discard the post (so that a lot of empty posts don't accumulate) and then click the link for "view all messages in topic".

I can live with that but would really like a "View Topic" link that does that directly.

Many thanks!


moderated Automatic Deletion of Members / Spam Messages #suggestion

Chris Jones
 

I have joined this Group prompted by Shal Farley following problems caused by the automatic deletion of members following an email sent to them being marked as spam. I will not trouble members of this Group by going over ground already covered in exchanges over the last 24 hours by unnecessary duplication. For the record I am a Moderator on one Group, and a member of several others.

 

On the basis of what I have read already (and that took a lot of finding!) this is a continuing problem, and that at the moment at least there is no obvious “technical” solution to it. A large part of the overall problem can be put down to the absence of any “help” published in the Help section and I seem to have talked myself in trying to prepare some guidance; I don’t want to go too far down that route until I have at least tried to have one or two minor changes introduced; I would only have to amend the help shortly after I had written it.

 

So here goes…

 

The messages sent to members being automatically deleted and to the Owner and Moderators of their parent Group are IMHO not as clear as they might be. Looking first at the message to Owners and Moderators because it is the easier to deal with, one received yesterday read (with the identity of the member concealed):

 

Hello,

 

This is to notify you that xxxxx@... has been unsubscribed from your group wireless-set-no19@groups.io because they marked a message as spam.

 

To turn off this notification, log into https://groups.io and edit your subscription.

 

Thank you for choosing Groups.io groups.

 

Cheers,

 

The Groups.io Team

 

This clearly "blames" the individual member, when in fact it was his email service provider that marked the message as spam.

 

May I suggest a rewording as follows:

 

Hello,

 

This is to notify you that xxxxx@... has been unsubscribed from your group wireless-set-no19@groups.io because a message to them was marked as spam. Note that this may have been done by their email service provider, not by the individual member personally.

 

To turn off this notification, log into https://groups.io and edit your subscription.

 

Thank you for choosing Groups.io groups.

 

Cheers,

 

The Groups.io Team

 

Turning now to the message sent to the member concerned; it read as follows:

 

Hello,

 

Because your email service reported to us that you have marked one or more messages from wireless-set-no19@groups.io as spam, you have been automatically removed from the group. You will receive no more emails from that group. If this was a mistake, you can resume your subscription within the next 3 days by clicking the following link:

Resume Subscription

Groups.io groups offer several options for controlling how much and what types of emails to receive. See this Help Center article for more information.

If this happens repeatedly please check with your email service to learn about how they decide to send feedback reports to list services (such as Groups.io groups).

 

Cheers,


The Groups.io Team

 

Until I contacted the person concerned he was deeply distrustful of the above; it looked like an unsolicited invitation to click on a link and we all know the trouble that can cause! Needless to say he had not marked one or more messages from wireless-set-no19@groups.io as spam so he had no idea about what had happened.

 

May I suggest a rewording as follows:

 

Because your Email Service Provider reported to us that one or more messages from [GroupName]@groups.io has been marked as spam you have been automatically removed from the group.  Please note that this "marking as spam" may have been done by your Email Service Provider and not by you. We suggest that you check your spam box as soon as possible to see if your Email Service Provider has diverted legitimate messages into it. (Your Email Service Provider may not be the same as your Internet Service Provider.)

 

You will receive no more emails from that group. If this was a mistake, you can resume your subscription within the next 3 days by clicking the following link:

Resume Subscription

Groups.io groups offer several options for controlling how much and what types of emails to receive. See this Help Center article for more information.

If this happens repeatedly please check with your email service to learn about how they decide to send feedback reports to list services (such as Groups.io groups).

 

Cheers,


The Groups.io Team

 

IMHO the above changes would reduce the confusion and lack of understanding amongst Group Members and Owners / Moderators with (hopefully) not much work being necessary to achieve it.

 

Regards,

 

Chris