Date   

moderated Re: search function

 

Whatever happens, *please* let's not go back to the days of stemming, if "stemming" means returning all words having the same root. That's what Search used to do here and it was unacceptable, useless, and a huge PITA!
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: search function

Walter Underwood
 

Linguistically, there are derivational and inflectional stemmers. Derivational stemmers are more aggressive and can reduce “conduction” to “conduct” and “catty” to “cat". Some even remove prefixes, so “superconductor” becomes “conduct”. They are allowed to change between parts of speech, like noun to verb. Inflectional stemmers do not change the part of speech. They might remove endings (“cars” to “car”) or make internal changes (“women” to “woman”). Some handle irregular plurals, like “people” to “person”.

In Solr, Lucene, and ElasticSearch, the KStem analyzer is the least aggressive.

I’m not a fan of stemming proper nouns like “Holbrooks”. “Steve Jobs” and “Bill Gates” are not a job or a gate.

Because the search includes date sorting, precision becomes really important. When sorting by relevance, it is OK to have lots of poor matches as long as they are on page 10 of the results. But when sorted by date, all those bad matches are mixed in, with no way to ignore them.

Wildcards, like asterisks, usually put a huge load on the search engine. First it must scan all the terms to get matches, then search with the hundreds or thousands of terms that match.

wunder
Walter Underwood
wunder@...
http://observer.wunderwood.org/  (my blog)

On Feb 12, 2018, at 5:14 PM, Shal Farley <shals2nd@...> wrote:

J,

I agree with Walter. I'd rather have it this way than the other way.

Ideal, I think, would be the third way: partial but not stemming.

I still think it should be possible to use an asterisk to indicate "contains this string." No?

No.

I'd much rather have partial matches without needing a "syntax" element like an asterisk to mark it. That is, I'd like to have a search for "driver" match "drivers", which would be a match on part of the word, but not "driving", which would be a match based on word stems.

Partial matching would solve Nancy's case of Holbrook versus Holbrooks, and it would allow one to do "psuedo-stemming". For example, searching for "driv" if one wanted to match both "drivers" and "driving". Note the "psuedo", as that would also match "drivel", which a true stemming search would not.

Shal



moderated Re: #transfer

Southenders Admin
 

On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 12:37 pm, J_Catlady wrote:
On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 12:30 pm, Southenders Admin wrote:
I really want this to wok, and I think it will.
It's not only going to wok. It's going to wok and roll! 
 
Oh, the humanity!
(where's my spell checker?)


moderated On language and date localization

 

Hi All,

I agree that localizing Groups.io into different languages would be great, and it's on the TODO list. Unfortunately I can't dedicate the time to make it happen right now. One of the reasons is that once a site is localized, it's more difficult to add/change features. It slows development down a bit, for the rest of time. Also, no paid groups have asked for it (but have asked for other features not yet supported). Again, I think it's absolutely worthwhile. But I can't do it right now.

Date localization is a little easier, as it's a lot more limited in scope. The outstanding problem with getting that done right now (besides time) is that it's unclear if the library I use for the date picker on the add event page supports different date formats. That's on me to spend the time to figure out; I just haven't been able to yet.

Thanks,
Mark


moderated Re: #transfer

Southenders Admin
 

Thanks, Shal

Message problem solved, in a way.

I changed all my members to default Message Policy, and my message with attachment went through. I guess I must have misunderstood the Overides.

But even so, after I approved the earlier  messages, they did not go through after moderation.

I have created a PDF for event creation, but it's pretty rudimentary. I also have one explaining hashtags to new members.

The message to my members about hashtag was regarding color coding.  Here's the wording:
***************************************************************************************************************************

The new website has a very important feature. These are Hashtags that allow you to focus in on a particular Interest Group, and its activities.

Hashtags are color coded:

Red are for general membership and board business
Blue represents Outdoor activities
Gold represents Indoor activities
Green represents...eating activities
Attached is a copy of part of the web page showing how these look. 

 

 
*******************************************************
When you're old and retired like my group, you can move down to Lake Norman NC, and join!


moderated Re: search function

 

J,

I agree with Walter. I'd rather have it this way than the other way.

Ideal, I think, would be the third way: partial but not stemming.

I still think it should be possible to use an asterisk to indicate "contains this string." No?

No.

I'd much rather have partial matches without needing a "syntax" element like an asterisk to mark it. That is, I'd like to have a search for "driver" match "drivers", which would be a match on part of the word, but not "driving", which would be a match based on word stems.

Partial matching would solve Nancy's case of Holbrook versus Holbrooks, and it would allow one to do "psuedo-stemming". For example, searching for "driv" if one wanted to match both "drivers" and "driving". Note the "psuedo", as that would also match "drivel", which a true stemming search would not.

Shal


moderated Re: #transfer

Bob Bellizzi
 

Wow Sharon!  I love it!
It's everything I've thought also.  
Rah, Rah, Mark!  And I really mean that.
--

Bob Bellizzi

Founder, Fuchs Friends ®
Founder & Executive Director, The Corneal Dystrophy Foundation


moderated Re: #transfer

 

Southenders Admin,

Since the attachment is a description of my hashtag color coding, I'd be happy to post it here to see if anyone gets it in this group, as opposed to what is happening on my created site.

I don't think we should use beta for tests. But you're welcome to join shalstest, or in this case since the content might be useful to other moderators, post it in GMF.
https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum

In GMF the Attachments option is set to "Allow", so it should go through. I'm not certain of beta's setting, so it may not be a valid test.

Shal
 _.


moderated Re: search function

 

I agree with Walter. I'd rather have it this way than the other way. I still think it should be possible to use an asterisk to indicate "contains this string." No?

On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 4:07 PM, Walter Underwood <wunder@...> wrote:
I’ve been working in search for over twenty years and you really, really cannot get 100% specific and 100% sensitive. In search evaluation, those are called “precision” and “recall”. You are lucky to get to 50% on either one. I got the Netflix search working better than that, but that was in a very specific domain, just movies and TV.

The most common solution is to try and get the first few result to be very specific (high precision), matching the customer’s query. Weaker matches are farther down and on later pages of results.

I’ll go look over the previous discussion to see if there is anything I can add.

wunder
Walter Underwood
wunder@...
http://observer.wunderwood.org/  (my blog)

On Feb 12, 2018, at 4:02 PM, J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

There were some long debates about the search function in the past. This is one side of the issue. Before the newest version, the search function would return too much (it was over-sensitive) - for example, if you searched on "diagnosis," it would return diagnosis, diagnostics, diagnosed, etc. etc. etc. It was a big argument to get it to be more specific. I wanted it to be both 100% sensitive and 100% specific but it seems you can't have both given the search software that Mark is using. I agree that it would be better if you could also do the kind of partial search you are asking for here, perhaps by using an asterisk at the end of the search term. But if I had to pick one way (sensitivity or specificity) I'd pick the latter, i.e., the way it is now. It was useless for me, and some others, to have too much returned every time.
--
J
 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu




--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: #transfer

Southenders Admin
 

Thanks for shooting me, Shal, I needed that. I can put the hashtag in the event name, but my 30 Group Directors, aged 65+, probably will forget to do this. I set message to only allow New Messages with a hashtag, so the drop down list comes down.

But unfortunately, larger issue is that even on a message I created with only a 77KB attachment half an hour ago has not been received.Messages with attachments don't seem to go out, or at least I am not getting a copy of them.

Since the attachment is a description of my hashtag color coding, I'd be happy to post it here to see if anyone gets it in this group, as opposed to what is happening on my created site.


moderated Re: search function

Walter Underwood
 

I’ve been working in search for over twenty years and you really, really cannot get 100% specific and 100% sensitive. In search evaluation, those are called “precision” and “recall”. You are lucky to get to 50% on either one. I got the Netflix search working better than that, but that was in a very specific domain, just movies and TV.

The most common solution is to try and get the first few result to be very specific (high precision), matching the customer’s query. Weaker matches are farther down and on later pages of results.

I’ll go look over the previous discussion to see if there is anything I can add.

wunder
Walter Underwood
wunder@...
http://observer.wunderwood.org/  (my blog)

On Feb 12, 2018, at 4:02 PM, J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

There were some long debates about the search function in the past. This is one side of the issue. Before the newest version, the search function would return too much (it was over-sensitive) - for example, if you searched on "diagnosis," it would return diagnosis, diagnostics, diagnosed, etc. etc. etc. It was a big argument to get it to be more specific. I wanted it to be both 100% sensitive and 100% specific but it seems you can't have both given the search software that Mark is using. I agree that it would be better if you could also do the kind of partial search you are asking for here, perhaps by using an asterisk at the end of the search term. But if I had to pick one way (sensitivity or specificity) I'd pick the latter, i.e., the way it is now. It was useless for me, and some others, to have too much returned every time.
--
J
 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu



moderated Re: search function

 

There were some long debates about the search function in the past. This is one side of the issue. Before the newest version, the search function would return too much (it was over-sensitive) - for example, if you searched on "diagnosis," it would return diagnosis, diagnostics, diagnosed, etc. etc. etc. It was a big argument to get it to be more specific. I wanted it to be both 100% sensitive and 100% specific but it seems you can't have both given the search software that Mark is using. I agree that it would be better if you could also do the kind of partial search you are asking for here, perhaps by using an asterisk at the end of the search term. But if I had to pick one way (sensitivity or specificity) I'd pick the latter, i.e., the way it is now. It was useless for me, and some others, to have too much returned every time.
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated search function

Nancy P
 

I'd posted this earlier in the group managers forum and it was suggested that I try it here as well as it was apparently a subject for discussion a few months ago - any chance the search function will be expanded to include partial words?

" We've just started transferring our groups from yahoo and have been very pleased so far with both the results and Mark's support.  However, I discovered something a bit puzzling today.  I was searching for a person whose last name was Holbrooks and, when I enter that entire name, all his records came up.  However, if I just enter Holbrook (without the "s" at the end), it doesn't find any of his records.  That seems very peculiar to me!   What am I missing?  Or perhaps I was spoiled in yahoo where I could enter a truncated version of a name and it would find all entries containing that sequence of letters?"


moderated Re: Date format settings #suggestion

kr402
 


On Feb 12, 2018, at 2:01 PM, Ian Gillis <tessel.bas@...> wrote:

About the only criticism of my transferred former Yahoo group of retired Marconi (UK) engineers was the date format. Absolutely no-one likes mm-dd-yyyy, everyone would be happy with the European dd-mm-yyyy but a fair few would be prepared to accept the ISO 8601 yyyy-mm-dd. I understand that to a US developer mm-dd-yyyy is familiar and doesn't yell "Change Me!" - but to a retired UK engineer it's very irritating and a potential source of schedule errors…

hmmm, what do you propose different for each region?
EG: Ygroups has U.K. groups.
Is the date there 
European dd-mm-yyyy ?


moderated Re: Date format settings #suggestion

 

About the only criticism of my transferred former Yahoo group of retired Marconi (UK) engineers was the date format. Absolutely no-one likes mm-dd-yyyy, everyone would be happy with the European dd-mm-yyyy but a fair few would be prepared to accept the ISO 8601 yyyy-mm-dd. I understand that to a US developer mm-dd-yyyy is familiar and doesn't yell "Change Me!" - but to a retired UK engineer it's very irritating and a potential source of schedule errors…
--
______________________________________
 Ian Gillis C Eng MIET


moderated Re: #transfer

 

Southenders Admin

(Please put a ‘Add Hashtag’ drop down in the calendar.  ...)

In the mean time I think you can just add the hashtag(s) you want to the event name.

(Please, the rest of you, don’t shoot me!)

Bang!
Wait, why would I do that?

Shal


moderated Re: #transfer

 

On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 12:30 pm, Southenders Admin wrote:
I really want this to wok, and I think it will.
It's not only going to wok. It's going to wok and roll! 
 
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: foreign versions of groups.io

 

Thanks, Marina,

You wrote: "There is an invite message in English which, apparently, you can customize.
I thought that I could replace it with a text in Italian, but found out that you can't delete the English text and replace it with another one.
The customized/optional message is inserted automatically in the middle of the original English text, which makes it more confusing."

This of course will not solve the problem. Only the admin could change it then, if I consider this correctly.. All standard (fixed) texts should be replaced; otherwise it really is confusing.

Regards
Victoria

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: main@beta.groups.io [mailto:main@beta.groups.io] Im Auftrag von Marina
Gesendet: Montag, 12. Februar 2018 19:41
An: main@beta.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [beta] foreign versions of groups.io

On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 03:13 am, Victoria Caesar wrote:

But I don´t know if there aren´t specially prepared standard texts
(f.e. invitations to old group members), which automatically are sent
by groups.io and therefore are in English? These should definitely be
translated into their mother tongue. Or do I - being the owner -
create these standard texts myself anyway?

Marina


moderated Re: #transfer

Southenders Admin
 

Thanks all, for the helpful advice. 

i have invested many hours to create my test site. I really want this to wok, and I think it will.

and yes, Mark, you have underpriced your service.  And I’m going to take a paid subscription. But I’m going to have to tell my membership that they need the RSVP ‘module’ to explain the cost. (Please put a ‘Add Hashtag’ drop down in the calendar. And add default notification times.)

(Please, the rest of you, don’t shoot me!)


moderated Repeating Events in Calendar Bug

Scott Myers
 

I've noted that once a repeating event is added to the calendar, it will not accept a change.  It must be deleted and you have to reenter to correct the repeating event.

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