Date   

moderated Re: search function

 

I agree with Walter. I'd rather have it this way than the other way. I still think it should be possible to use an asterisk to indicate "contains this string." No?

On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 4:07 PM, Walter Underwood <wunder@...> wrote:
I’ve been working in search for over twenty years and you really, really cannot get 100% specific and 100% sensitive. In search evaluation, those are called “precision” and “recall”. You are lucky to get to 50% on either one. I got the Netflix search working better than that, but that was in a very specific domain, just movies and TV.

The most common solution is to try and get the first few result to be very specific (high precision), matching the customer’s query. Weaker matches are farther down and on later pages of results.

I’ll go look over the previous discussion to see if there is anything I can add.

wunder
Walter Underwood
wunder@...
http://observer.wunderwood.org/  (my blog)

On Feb 12, 2018, at 4:02 PM, J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

There were some long debates about the search function in the past. This is one side of the issue. Before the newest version, the search function would return too much (it was over-sensitive) - for example, if you searched on "diagnosis," it would return diagnosis, diagnostics, diagnosed, etc. etc. etc. It was a big argument to get it to be more specific. I wanted it to be both 100% sensitive and 100% specific but it seems you can't have both given the search software that Mark is using. I agree that it would be better if you could also do the kind of partial search you are asking for here, perhaps by using an asterisk at the end of the search term. But if I had to pick one way (sensitivity or specificity) I'd pick the latter, i.e., the way it is now. It was useless for me, and some others, to have too much returned every time.
--
J
 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu




--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: #transfer

Southenders Admin
 

Thanks for shooting me, Shal, I needed that. I can put the hashtag in the event name, but my 30 Group Directors, aged 65+, probably will forget to do this. I set message to only allow New Messages with a hashtag, so the drop down list comes down.

But unfortunately, larger issue is that even on a message I created with only a 77KB attachment half an hour ago has not been received.Messages with attachments don't seem to go out, or at least I am not getting a copy of them.

Since the attachment is a description of my hashtag color coding, I'd be happy to post it here to see if anyone gets it in this group, as opposed to what is happening on my created site.


moderated Re: search function

Walter Underwood
 

I’ve been working in search for over twenty years and you really, really cannot get 100% specific and 100% sensitive. In search evaluation, those are called “precision” and “recall”. You are lucky to get to 50% on either one. I got the Netflix search working better than that, but that was in a very specific domain, just movies and TV.

The most common solution is to try and get the first few result to be very specific (high precision), matching the customer’s query. Weaker matches are farther down and on later pages of results.

I’ll go look over the previous discussion to see if there is anything I can add.

wunder
Walter Underwood
wunder@...
http://observer.wunderwood.org/  (my blog)

On Feb 12, 2018, at 4:02 PM, J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

There were some long debates about the search function in the past. This is one side of the issue. Before the newest version, the search function would return too much (it was over-sensitive) - for example, if you searched on "diagnosis," it would return diagnosis, diagnostics, diagnosed, etc. etc. etc. It was a big argument to get it to be more specific. I wanted it to be both 100% sensitive and 100% specific but it seems you can't have both given the search software that Mark is using. I agree that it would be better if you could also do the kind of partial search you are asking for here, perhaps by using an asterisk at the end of the search term. But if I had to pick one way (sensitivity or specificity) I'd pick the latter, i.e., the way it is now. It was useless for me, and some others, to have too much returned every time.
--
J
 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu



moderated Re: search function

 

There were some long debates about the search function in the past. This is one side of the issue. Before the newest version, the search function would return too much (it was over-sensitive) - for example, if you searched on "diagnosis," it would return diagnosis, diagnostics, diagnosed, etc. etc. etc. It was a big argument to get it to be more specific. I wanted it to be both 100% sensitive and 100% specific but it seems you can't have both given the search software that Mark is using. I agree that it would be better if you could also do the kind of partial search you are asking for here, perhaps by using an asterisk at the end of the search term. But if I had to pick one way (sensitivity or specificity) I'd pick the latter, i.e., the way it is now. It was useless for me, and some others, to have too much returned every time.
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated search function

Nancy P
 

I'd posted this earlier in the group managers forum and it was suggested that I try it here as well as it was apparently a subject for discussion a few months ago - any chance the search function will be expanded to include partial words?

" We've just started transferring our groups from yahoo and have been very pleased so far with both the results and Mark's support.  However, I discovered something a bit puzzling today.  I was searching for a person whose last name was Holbrooks and, when I enter that entire name, all his records came up.  However, if I just enter Holbrook (without the "s" at the end), it doesn't find any of his records.  That seems very peculiar to me!   What am I missing?  Or perhaps I was spoiled in yahoo where I could enter a truncated version of a name and it would find all entries containing that sequence of letters?"


moderated Re: Date format settings #suggestion

kr402
 


On Feb 12, 2018, at 2:01 PM, Ian Gillis <tessel.bas@...> wrote:

About the only criticism of my transferred former Yahoo group of retired Marconi (UK) engineers was the date format. Absolutely no-one likes mm-dd-yyyy, everyone would be happy with the European dd-mm-yyyy but a fair few would be prepared to accept the ISO 8601 yyyy-mm-dd. I understand that to a US developer mm-dd-yyyy is familiar and doesn't yell "Change Me!" - but to a retired UK engineer it's very irritating and a potential source of schedule errors…

hmmm, what do you propose different for each region?
EG: Ygroups has U.K. groups.
Is the date there 
European dd-mm-yyyy ?


moderated Re: Date format settings #suggestion

 

About the only criticism of my transferred former Yahoo group of retired Marconi (UK) engineers was the date format. Absolutely no-one likes mm-dd-yyyy, everyone would be happy with the European dd-mm-yyyy but a fair few would be prepared to accept the ISO 8601 yyyy-mm-dd. I understand that to a US developer mm-dd-yyyy is familiar and doesn't yell "Change Me!" - but to a retired UK engineer it's very irritating and a potential source of schedule errors…
--
______________________________________
 Ian Gillis C Eng MIET


moderated Re: #transfer

 

Southenders Admin

(Please put a ‘Add Hashtag’ drop down in the calendar.  ...)

In the mean time I think you can just add the hashtag(s) you want to the event name.

(Please, the rest of you, don’t shoot me!)

Bang!
Wait, why would I do that?

Shal


moderated Re: #transfer

 

On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 12:30 pm, Southenders Admin wrote:
I really want this to wok, and I think it will.
It's not only going to wok. It's going to wok and roll! 
 
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: foreign versions of groups.io

 

Thanks, Marina,

You wrote: "There is an invite message in English which, apparently, you can customize.
I thought that I could replace it with a text in Italian, but found out that you can't delete the English text and replace it with another one.
The customized/optional message is inserted automatically in the middle of the original English text, which makes it more confusing."

This of course will not solve the problem. Only the admin could change it then, if I consider this correctly.. All standard (fixed) texts should be replaced; otherwise it really is confusing.

Regards
Victoria

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: main@beta.groups.io [mailto:main@beta.groups.io] Im Auftrag von Marina
Gesendet: Montag, 12. Februar 2018 19:41
An: main@beta.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [beta] foreign versions of groups.io

On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 03:13 am, Victoria Caesar wrote:

But I don´t know if there aren´t specially prepared standard texts
(f.e. invitations to old group members), which automatically are sent
by groups.io and therefore are in English? These should definitely be
translated into their mother tongue. Or do I - being the owner -
create these standard texts myself anyway?

Marina


moderated Re: #transfer

Southenders Admin
 

Thanks all, for the helpful advice. 

i have invested many hours to create my test site. I really want this to wok, and I think it will.

and yes, Mark, you have underpriced your service.  And I’m going to take a paid subscription. But I’m going to have to tell my membership that they need the RSVP ‘module’ to explain the cost. (Please put a ‘Add Hashtag’ drop down in the calendar. And add default notification times.)

(Please, the rest of you, don’t shoot me!)


moderated Repeating Events in Calendar Bug

Scott Myers
 

I've noted that once a repeating event is added to the calendar, it will not accept a change.  It must be deleted and you have to reenter to correct the repeating event.


moderated Re: #transfer

Sharon Villines
 

On Feb 12, 2018, at 7:58 AM, Southenders Admin <nnnlriep6@gmail.com> wrote:

So I'm nervous. Perhaps I've missed something in the presentation that will allow me to worry less.
This is my response to this problem—I posted it a week or so ago on the GroupManagersForum:

I also went through this when I transferred several groups and am confronting it again as I’m proposing moving a main group and about 10 subgroups. Is this trustworthy?

It’s more than a wing and prayer. Mark Fletcher has a long professional career both in running groups and in other software companies. He has a lifetime of contacts as well was experience in the industry. He has made the judgement that he can and wants to do this. If he finds that he can’t or doesn’t want to, there must be some people who would love to take over, and/or someone else, like GoogleGroups will take over the groups on Groups.io.

The business model is excellent and is in use by many businesses based on open source software. The features that Mark has designed are far superior to any of the other free email services and I have to believe even superior to anything that companies have created for themselves. Big companies are only interested in the basic level of service and features that bring in the most revenue. And the revenue is totally independent of the core of the service — email discussion groups. The company could care less as long as the groups are large enough to produce data they can sell or the number of ads they can attach.

The scaled model of services allows people to try the service and develop their group, then upgrade when they need more. It would be very hard if not impossible to find another service with so many possibilities. When I can, I use services, plugins, etc, that have both free and paid levels. The paid levels not only support the free services but they guarantee that the base is well designed and will be updated regularly. The paid services are added onto the free service so it isn’t a different inferior and neglected service.

Email lists provide many more options that forums, message boards, etc. They are more adaptable to individual needs. Some people have a problem understanding asynchronous communications, but with threaded messages and hashtags, all the messages on one topic are easy to read in chronological order. And as long as the speed is fast, searching in one place for a topic is much easier than searching several forums to find responses to questions that might be posted under one or more subjects. Searching “Lemons” will bring up all the mentions of lemons and the messages excerpts can be easily scanned in order for relevance.

A major plus is the open development model. This is incredibly smart and forward looking. It’s the way software development is moving. Think about big company services. They are closed and unresponsive. It is hard to get any information about how they function that isn’t in the help files — and if you can find where it is located in the help files. The chances of any suggestion being implemented are nil. Open development taps into the best programmers and user interface people out there.

AND, perhaps best of all, Groups.io is about discussion groups exclusively. Groups are not in the position of fighting for time and money with other services. Groups are the focus.

Sharon
----
Sharon Villines
TakomaDC@Groups.io


moderated Re: #transfer

 

On 12 Feb 2018 at 14:50, Scott Myers wrote:

It is a much more complex beast and of course, at a much higher
cost.  When it was implemented, we were comparing it to several other
similar systems that compete with Wild Apricot.  It really is an apples
and oranges when comparing to groups.io.
I agree completely. And Wild Apricot is not designed for interactive
discussion groups. It's much more suited for one-way communications,
i.e. broadcast.

--
Jim
Poston@vch-nv.us

<< Mars ain't the kind of place to raise the kids >>


moderated Re: #transfer

Scott Myers
 

I've implemented Wild Apricot with a large club I belong to.  It is really a point of sale system meant for managing memberships, trainings, etc.  It is a much more complex beast and of course, at a much higher cost.  When it was implemented, we were comparing it to several other similar systems that compete with Wild Apricot.  It really is an apples and oranges when comparing to groups.io.

 

 

From: main@beta.groups.io [mailto:main@beta.groups.io] On Behalf Of Walter Underwood
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 1:51 PM
To: main@beta.groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] #transfer

 

On Feb 12, 2018, at 10:46 AM, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:

 

My group wants me to look at wildapricot and a few other pay groups, but I know the Groups has the capability to be all that we need.

I hadn't heard of wild apricot, thanks for the pointer. Looks like Groups.io is underpriced.

 

Wild Apricot provides payments, so that is a different level of features. I looked at it a few years ago for our Boy Scout troop, to handle dues, paying for outings, etc.

 

On the other hand, groups.io provides more features than FastMail and WordPress, the other services I pay for.

 

wunder
Walter Underwood
wunder@...
http://observer.wunderwood.org/  (my blog)

 


moderated Re: #transfer

Walter Underwood
 

On Feb 12, 2018, at 10:46 AM, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:

My group wants me to look at wildapricot and a few other pay groups, but I know the Groups has the capability to be all that we need.

I hadn't heard of wild apricot, thanks for the pointer. Looks like Groups.io is underpriced.

Wild Apricot provides payments, so that is a different level of features. I looked at it a few years ago for our Boy Scout troop, to handle dues, paying for outings, etc.

On the other hand, groups.io provides more features than FastMail and WordPress, the other services I pay for.

wunder
Walter Underwood
wunder@...
http://observer.wunderwood.org/  (my blog)


moderated Re: #transfer

 

Southenders Admin,

On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 4:58 AM, Southenders Admin <nnnlriep6@...> wrote:
Thanks to all for the helpful replies.

My message with the attachment was just 987kb. For my that's large. It still hasn't shown up.

Not sure what the issue could be. We haven't had any other reports of missing emails. 

 
I used a name close enough to the original for my test site that it doesn't matter to me which site I use.
As for the payment, I am a former business owner. I know the value of being a business plan that not just takes care of a need, but shows the foresight of the business to grow and succeed. It would be less worrisome if the future looked more stable here. When Pandora went public, the CEO said, in an interview, he didn't know how they would ever make money. Blue Aprons CEO took a similar track. It's more professional to show that not only are you capable of creating a good/great product, but that you are building towards a future. 
Do any of you want to do this again?

The best thing you (or anyone else) can do who wants to make sure Groups.io is around for the long term is to sign up for a premium group.

 
My group wants me to look at wildapricot and a few other pay groups, but I know the Groups has the capability to be all that we need.

I hadn't heard of wild apricot, thanks for the pointer. Looks like Groups.io is underpriced.


Cheers,
Mark


moderated Re: foreign versions of groups.io

Marina
 

On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 03:13 am, Victoria Caesar wrote:

But I don´t know if there aren´t specially prepared
standard texts (f.e. invitations to old group members), which automatically
are sent by groups.io and therefore are in English? These should definitely be
translated into their mother tongue. Or do I - being the owner - create these
standard texts myself anyway?
There is an invite message in English which, apparently, you can customize.
I thought that I could replace it with a text in Italian, but found out that you can't delete the English text and replace it with another one.
The customized/optional message is inserted automatically in the middle of the original English text, which makes it more confusing.

Marina


moderated Re: One User Account - Multiple Email Addresses #suggestion

James Homuth
 

That's one option, yes, and if you have access to the same address throughout the day it's a valid one. However, where I work I don't have access to my personal email (network level filtering for the lose). I'd like the option of adding my work email address to my account if for no other reasons than I can get admin level notifications there. Apparently you can add email aliases so you can post by email to groups you're subscribed to, so I mean it's mostly there already.


From: main@beta.groups.io [mailto:main@beta.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tony Moody
Sent: February-12-18 12:56 PM
To: main@beta.groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] One User Account – Multiple Email Addresses #featurerequest #suggestion

I have filters set in my emailer (Pegasus) to send post to folders for each each group.
So email from   @beta.groups.io goes into the GrioBeta folder  etc.

OK,
Tony



On 12 Feb 2018 at 6:43, beta@... wrote about :
Subject : [beta] One User Account – Multip

It would really be nice if you could have one account but have an email address for each group you are subscribed to.  For example, have a user account as user@...  but for groups have something like cats@... and dogs@... .
I am coming from Yahoo groups where I was able to do this and it was not only very convenient for administering my groups but it made reading the posts much easier since all the posts from one group were in one place and not mixed in with posts from other groups.
I know I can make up an account for each group and I have done that but it is rather cumbersome.
A search of the archives finds this has been mentioned before and there was a hint that there was a long range plan to accomplish this, but that was almost two years ago (1Mar16)  so perhaps a "bump" would be not be out of place.  I would have just added my post to the older one rather than start a new thread, but it appears to be locked.
  


moderated Re: One User Account – Multiple Email Addresses #suggestion

Tony Moody
 

I have filters set in my emailer (Pegasus) to send post to folders for each each group.
So email from   @beta.groups.io goes into the GrioBeta folder  etc.

OK,
Tony



On 12 Feb 2018 at 6:43, beta@... wrote about :
Subject : [beta] One User Account – Multip

It would really be nice if you could have one account but have an email address for each group you are subscribed to.  For example, have a user account as user@...  but for groups have something like cats@... and dogs@... .
I am coming from Yahoo groups where I was able to do this and it was not only very convenient for administering my groups but it made reading the posts much easier since all the posts from one group were in one place and not mixed in with posts from other groups.
I know I can make up an account for each group and I have done that but it is rather cumbersome.
A search of the archives finds this has been mentioned before and there was a hint that there was a long range plan to accomplish this, but that was almost two years ago (1Mar16)  so perhaps a "bump" would be not be out of place.  I would have just added my post to the older one rather than start a new thread, but it appears to be locked.
  

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