Date   

moderated Re: Let moderated users know they're moderated #bug #suggestion

 

On Mon, Nov 27, 2017 at 04:38 am, James Homuth wrote:
I know this to be standard on other platforms (Yahoo,
It's for sure not standard on Yahoo. The only way users can figure out there whether they're on moderation is by viewing source after their message posts and searching on "approved by." They don't even let users know via an "M" badge in the group lists, as groups.io does. They sure don't get any email about it. (I'm not arguing for or against this. I like the idea of the email. And if the user posts via the web, groups.io does inform them via a banner that their message will post after approval.)
 
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Let moderated users know they're moderated #bug #suggestion

Duane
 

Our "Welcome Message" says, "All new members will have their messages moderated (checked) before they will be posted.  There may be delays, sometimes extended, depending on when a moderator can get to it.  After you've made a few posts and we know that you're following the Guidelines, the delay will be removed.  It may be returned at a later time though if your posts don't meet the Guidelines."

For those that post on site, there will be a banner pop up at the top, after they submit it, saying that the message will be posted after moderator approval.

Duane


moderated Re: Let moderated users know they're moderated #bug #suggestion

Donald Hellen
 

I don't get any such message from a Yahoo group where everyone is moderated. No notice that the message is to be moderated nor that it was received.

Maybe you're thinking of another messaging platform?

Donald

On November 27, 2017 7:38:56 AM "James Homuth" <james@...> wrote:

Ah, possibly a misunderstanding here. I was thinking more in terms of if a user sends a message to the group, they get an email essentially saying we received your message, but you're moderated. I know this to be standard on other platforms (Yahoo, Mailman), but I guess not here?

From: main@beta.groups.io [mailto:main@beta.groups.io] On Behalf Of J_Catlady
Sent: November-27-17 7:21 AM
To: main@beta.groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] Let moderated users know they're moderated #bug #suggestion

For a group using the NuM feature, as yours does, that information is on the home page. I think it would be slightly complicated to notify every new user explicitly. However, you could put the info in the welcome message, as we do.

For an unmoderated group that wants to notify an individual member when they are put on moderation later (and then later, presumably, also notify them if and when they’re taken off), this could be done easily if Mark adds another two member-notice types. That would make the notification optional per group (members are notified only if the group has created and activated the corresponding notice). 

I personally would not use the feature. But I do have a custom member messsge in my notifications page that I can send manually in individual cases for those cases in which I want to notify the member. Usually I don’t.

J

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 27, 2017, at 3:50 AM, James Homuth <james@...> wrote:

Hey folks,
I'd have submitted this last week but I've had a week. Anyway, because it's the internet in 2017 and we have a troll problem, my group is set to moderate everyone on joining for the first few posts (I'd prefer more than 4, but I'm happy with 4). Every so often, I'll get emails from new users wondering why their posts haven't made it to the list yet. I wrote it off initially as perhaps they either assumed they'd go through, or were just being impatient and needed to be gently reminded that while running a list here is enjoyable, it's not my day job. Then I had a conversation with a member last week that had me wondering. Are users on moderation not actually told they're on moderation? And if not, how has that gone unnoticed this long? Either way, is it at all possible this can be looked at, given I don't believe that to be intentional?
James

--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Cases of email address spoofing?

Linda
 

Hi, My domain mail provider requires that mail be sent through my ISP, same as Jim's.  Linda


moderated Re: Let moderated users know they're moderated #bug #suggestion

 

On my groups we do much as Donald does. We do not want to let members know when they're moderated because for some it would be come another reason to complain to the moderators. We have some that we keep on moderation for various reasons, such as habitually posting blank or meaningless posts, or some who tend to be a little inflammatory in their wording. It causes much fewer problems for us to keep that information private to the moderators.

I wouldn't care if something different was optional, but I don't want the problems that would come with members knowing their moderation status. We just try to keep on top of postings and let them wonder.

Dano
________________________

James Homuth wrote:

No, but I do want people to perhaps get a notification that their post was received and not lost in cyberspace, since it may take a bit to approve it.
_________________________

Donald Hellen wrote:

I believe it is intentional. You don't want people to figure out that they are automatically removed from moderation after so many posts.

What we do is state in the welcome email and possibly on the group description that new members are moderated without any mention of the automatic change to unmoderated status.

If they don't read that information you can kindly point out to them that the welcome email is expected to be read and covered that question. Or just tell them again if you prefer.

Donald


moderated Re: Let moderated users know they're moderated #bug #suggestion

James Homuth
 

No, but I do want people to perhaps get a notification that their post was received and not lost in cyberspace, since it may take a bit to approve it.


From: main@beta.groups.io [mailto:main@beta.groups.io] On Behalf Of Donald Hellen
Sent: November-27-17 7:30 AM
To: main@beta.groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] Let moderated users know they're moderated #bug #suggestion

I believe it is intentional. You don't want people to figure out that they are automatically removed from moderation after so many posts.

What we do is state in the welcome email and possibly on the group description that new members are moderated without any mention of the automatic change to unmoderated status.

If they don't read that information you can kindly point out to them that the welcome email is expected to be read and covered that question. Or just tell them again if you prefer.

Donald

On November 27, 2017 6:50:25 AM "James Homuth" <james@...> wrote:

Hey folks,
I'd have submitted this last week but I've had a week. Anyway, because it's the internet in 2017 and we have a troll problem, my group is set to moderate everyone on joining for the first few posts (I'd prefer more than 4, but I'm happy with 4). Every so often, I'll get emails from new users wondering why their posts haven't made it to the list yet. I wrote it off initially as perhaps they either assumed they'd go through, or were just being impatient and needed to be gently reminded that while running a list here is enjoyable, it's not my day job. Then I had a conversation with a member last week that had me wondering. Are users on moderation not actually told they're on moderation? And if not, how has that gone unnoticed this long? Either way, is it at all possible this can be looked at, given I don't believe that to be intentional?
James


moderated Re: Let moderated users know they're moderated #bug #suggestion

James Homuth
 

Ah, possibly a misunderstanding here. I was thinking more in terms of if a user sends a message to the group, they get an email essentially saying we received your message, but you're moderated. I know this to be standard on other platforms (Yahoo, Mailman), but I guess not here?


From: main@beta.groups.io [mailto:main@beta.groups.io] On Behalf Of J_Catlady
Sent: November-27-17 7:21 AM
To: main@beta.groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] Let moderated users know they're moderated #bug #suggestion

For a group using the NuM feature, as yours does, that information is on the home page. I think it would be slightly complicated to notify every new user explicitly. However, you could put the info in the welcome message, as we do.

For an unmoderated group that wants to notify an individual member when they are put on moderation later (and then later, presumably, also notify them if and when they’re taken off), this could be done easily if Mark adds another two member-notice types. That would make the notification optional per group (members are notified only if the group has created and activated the corresponding notice). 

I personally would not use the feature. But I do have a custom member messsge in my notifications page that I can send manually in individual cases for those cases in which I want to notify the member. Usually I don’t.

J

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 27, 2017, at 3:50 AM, James Homuth <james@...> wrote:

Hey folks,
I'd have submitted this last week but I've had a week. Anyway, because it's the internet in 2017 and we have a troll problem, my group is set to moderate everyone on joining for the first few posts (I'd prefer more than 4, but I'm happy with 4). Every so often, I'll get emails from new users wondering why their posts haven't made it to the list yet. I wrote it off initially as perhaps they either assumed they'd go through, or were just being impatient and needed to be gently reminded that while running a list here is enjoyable, it's not my day job. Then I had a conversation with a member last week that had me wondering. Are users on moderation not actually told they're on moderation? And if not, how has that gone unnoticed this long? Either way, is it at all possible this can be looked at, given I don't believe that to be intentional?
James

--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Let moderated users know they're moderated #bug #suggestion

Donald Hellen
 

I believe it is intentional. You don't want people to figure out that they are automatically removed from moderation after so many posts.

What we do is state in the welcome email and possibly on the group description that new members are moderated without any mention of the automatic change to unmoderated status.

If they don't read that information you can kindly point out to them that the welcome email is expected to be read and covered that question. Or just tell them again if you prefer.

Donald

On November 27, 2017 6:50:25 AM "James Homuth" <james@...> wrote:

Hey folks,
 
I'd have submitted this last week but I've had a week. Anyway, because it's the internet in 2017 and we have a troll problem, my group is set to moderate everyone on joining for the first few posts (I'd prefer more than 4, but I'm happy with 4). Every so often, I'll get emails from new users wondering why their posts haven't made it to the list yet. I wrote it off initially as perhaps they either assumed they'd go through, or were just being impatient and needed to be gently reminded that while running a list here is enjoyable, it's not my day job. Then I had a conversation with a member last week that had me wondering. Are users on moderation not actually told they're on moderation? And if not, how has that gone unnoticed this long? Either way, is it at all possible this can be looked at, given I don't believe that to be intentional?
 
James


moderated Re: e-mail subscription change for ALL groups at one time #suggestion

Donald Hellen
 

I like the date assignment for the "hold mail" period. This would work like the USPS web site does for holding mail.

Donald

On November 26, 2017 10:32:31 PM "Brian Vogel" <britechguy@...> wrote:

Someone just recently asked if there was a way to change the subscription status to "No email" for all groups they are subscribed to with one action.  After digging around, I cannot find a mechanism to do this.

One can send e-mail messages cyclically to all the groups to which one is subscribed or one can use the "Manage My Subscriptions" page, cycling through each group's delivery link and circling back to the "MMS" page for each group.

There are times, though, when someone may wish to put all their groups that have any sort of e-mail subscription "on hold," either temporarily - much like a vacation stop for real postal mail - or permanently.

It would be nice if there were a way to do this for all groups at once, and to include a date option that would allow the hold to run only through a given date, or to remain in force until one would come in and turn it back off if the date is not specified.  It would be really nice if all of the original delivery options were remembered for when the hold is turned off, whether manually or via the deadline date having been reached.

--
Brian  Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1709, Build 16299   (dot level on request - it changes too often to keep in signature)
I worry a lot. . . I worry that no matter how cynical you become it's never enough to keep up.
    ~ Trudy, in Jane Wagner's 
            Search for Signs of Intelligent Life in the Universe


moderated Re: Let moderated users know they're moderated #bug #suggestion

 

For a group using the NuM feature, as yours does, that information is on the home page. I think it would be slightly complicated to notify every new user explicitly. However, you could put the info in the welcome message, as we do.

For an unmoderated group that wants to notify an individual member when they are put on moderation later (and then later, presumably, also notify them if and when they’re taken off), this could be done easily if Mark adds another two member-notice types. That would make the notification optional per group (members are notified only if the group has created and activated the corresponding notice). 

I personally would not use the feature. But I do have a custom member messsge in my notifications page that I can send manually in individual cases for those cases in which I want to notify the member. Usually I don’t.

J

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 27, 2017, at 3:50 AM, James Homuth <james@...> wrote:

Hey folks,
 
I'd have submitted this last week but I've had a week. Anyway, because it's the internet in 2017 and we have a troll problem, my group is set to moderate everyone on joining for the first few posts (I'd prefer more than 4, but I'm happy with 4). Every so often, I'll get emails from new users wondering why their posts haven't made it to the list yet. I wrote it off initially as perhaps they either assumed they'd go through, or were just being impatient and needed to be gently reminded that while running a list here is enjoyable, it's not my day job. Then I had a conversation with a member last week that had me wondering. Are users on moderation not actually told they're on moderation? And if not, how has that gone unnoticed this long? Either way, is it at all possible this can be looked at, given I don't believe that to be intentional?
 
James

--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Let moderated users know they're moderated #bug #suggestion

James Homuth
 

Hey folks,
 
I'd have submitted this last week but I've had a week. Anyway, because it's the internet in 2017 and we have a troll problem, my group is set to moderate everyone on joining for the first few posts (I'd prefer more than 4, but I'm happy with 4). Every so often, I'll get emails from new users wondering why their posts haven't made it to the list yet. I wrote it off initially as perhaps they either assumed they'd go through, or were just being impatient and needed to be gently reminded that while running a list here is enjoyable, it's not my day job. Then I had a conversation with a member last week that had me wondering. Are users on moderation not actually told they're on moderation? And if not, how has that gone unnoticed this long? Either way, is it at all possible this can be looked at, given I don't believe that to be intentional?
 
James


moderated Re: Cases of email address spoofing?

 

Jim,

That is not where my messages are sent from, but is my own domain name
and through which I receive messages. My outgoing messages are sent
directly via my ISP (Talktalk), which is not where my domain name is
registered and located.
Yup, the filter I propose would catch your messages, where straight SPF would pass them.

One work-around (I think) would be for you to enter your ISP email address into the Email Alias field in your account's Email Alias field (at the bottom of the Login page in your account), then have your ISP send your messages without spoofing your domain address.

Groups.io would then recognize your ISP address as an alias for your domain address and allow your sent messages to post while still sending outbound messages to your domain address.

Shal


moderated Re: e-mail subscription change for ALL groups at one time #suggestion

Jujube <ellaxyu@...>
 

I think this is a great idea and it shouldn't be too hind to implement.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Vogel" <britechguy@gmail.com
To: main@beta.groups.io
Date sent: Sun, 26 Nov 2017 19:32:31 -0800
Subject: [beta] e-mail subscription change for ALL groups at one time #suggestion

Someone just recently asked if there was a way to change the subscription status to "No email" for혻all groups they are subscribed to with one action.혻 After digging around, I cannot find a mechanism to do this.

One can send e-mail messages cyclically to all the groups to which one is subscribed or one can use the "Manage My Subscriptions" page, cycling through each group's delivery link and circling back to the "MMS" page for each group.

There are times, though, when someone may wish to put all their groups that have any sort of e-mail subscription "on hold," either temporarily - much like a vacation stop for real postal mail - or permanently.

It would be nice if there were a way to do this for all groups at once, and to include a date option that would allow the hold to run only through a given date, or to remain in force until one would come in and turn it back off if the date is not specified.혻 It would be really nice if all of the original delivery options were remembered for when the hold is turned off, whether manually or via the deadline date having been reached.

--
Brian혻혻-혻Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1709, Build 16299혻혻 (dot level on request - it changes too often to keep in signature)
I worry a lot. . . I worry that no matter how cynical you become it's never enough to keep up.
혻 혻혻~ Trudy, in Jane Wagner's혻
혻 혻 혻 혻 혻 혻혻Search for Signs of Intelligent Life in the Universe


moderated e-mail subscription change for ALL groups at one time #suggestion

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

Someone just recently asked if there was a way to change the subscription status to "No email" for all groups they are subscribed to with one action.  After digging around, I cannot find a mechanism to do this.

One can send e-mail messages cyclically to all the groups to which one is subscribed or one can use the "Manage My Subscriptions" page, cycling through each group's delivery link and circling back to the "MMS" page for each group.

There are times, though, when someone may wish to put all their groups that have any sort of e-mail subscription "on hold," either temporarily - much like a vacation stop for real postal mail - or permanently.

It would be nice if there were a way to do this for all groups at once, and to include a date option that would allow the hold to run only through a given date, or to remain in force until one would come in and turn it back off if the date is not specified.  It would be really nice if all of the original delivery options were remembered for when the hold is turned off, whether manually or via the deadline date having been reached.

--
Brian  Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1709, Build 16299   (dot level on request - it changes too often to keep in signature)
I worry a lot. . . I worry that no matter how cynical you become it's never enough to keep up.
    ~ Trudy, in Jane Wagner's 
            Search for Signs of Intelligent Life in the Universe


moderated Re: Cases of email address spoofing?

 

Shal,

I'm not sure how someone would use TOR with email.

If TOR is hiding their access to their email service that would have no
effect: my proposed check matches the domain in the From address with
the connection that delivered the message to Groups.io.

I'm not sure if this is possible, but if there is an email service which
somehow uses TOR to hide the path from itself to Groups.io then yes,
that would fail the test I propose, and might fail a conventional SPF
check. But as long as the TOR path didn't alter the body of the message,
nor certain headers, then the delivered message might pass the
From-aligned DKIM portion of a DMARC check. And that could be a good
reason to use that (but not the SPF portion of DMARC) as an OR condition
for inbound messages.
The TOR browser automatically uses the TOR network, but as far as I know has no
built in email facilities. However, the TOR network was in use for quite a time
before they produced the browser. I understand (I haven't tried it) that to use
the network without the browser the user installs a piece of software which
effectively sits between all their applications and their router. The only
change it makes to what is sent is to the destination address and to encrypt
the content, so there would be no change to any of the headers in the message.
However, the actual path used is hidden from the destination (in this case the
Groups.io server) in that it is passed through several TOR servers on the way,
and only the last of these would be seen by Groups.io as the source (usually
not even in the same country as the originator).

Use of TOR can have surprising effects for the user. I recently tried, as an
experiment, using the TOR browser to access a Yahoo group. Yahoo reacted in
two ways. First, it switched me to French language because it thought I was in
France (I am in UK) - fortunately I can read French so it wasn't a problem.
Secondly, and reassuringly, it sent me an email warning that my account had
been accessed from an unexpected location and I might need to change my
password. Would Groups.io do either of those, I wonder? Would we want it to?

Jim--
http://jimellame.tumblr.com - My thoughts on freedom (needs updating)
http://jimella.wordpress.com - political snippets, especially economic policy
http://jimella.livejournal.com - misc. snippets, some political, some not
Forget Google! I search with https://duckduckgo.com which doesn't spy on you


moderated Re: Cases of email address spoofing?

 

Shal,

> I doubt this is the same, but sometimes I use a vpn toroute my traffic
> somewhare else. ... Would that get me into trouble?

I don't think so. At least, not solely due to the VPN.

For posting messages here the only thing that would be required (if Mark
adopts my suggested filtering) would be that you send messages from the
email service matching your email From address. That is, if your group
messages are From yourname @ example.com then you must send the message
from an account at example.com. A message arriving "From" your address
but actually delivered by some other service would be a "spoof".
That sounds as if it might give me a problem. My email address domain is
jimella.co.uk. That is not where my messages are sent from, but is my own
domain name and through which I receive messages. My outgoing messages are sent
directly via my ISP (Talktalk), which is not where my domain name is registered
and located. I've been working that way since 1996 with no problems so far! I'm
sure I'm not the only one to use that sort of system.

Jim
--
http://jimellame.tumblr.com - My thoughts on freedom (needs updating)
http://jimella.wordpress.com - political snippets, especially economic policy
http://jimella.livejournal.com - misc. snippets, some political, some not
Forget Google! I search with https://duckduckgo.com which doesn't spy on you


moderated Re: Cases of email address spoofing?

 

Drew,

Instead of blocking email because it fails SPF or DKIM (if that is
what's being proposed) ...
My original proposal had only to do with email commands. I chimed in on this topic about spoofed message postings because some similar techniques might apply.

... might Groups.io simply stamp a conspicuous warning on the email
and let subscribers make their own determination?
That would be one way to mitigate the inconvenience (to the sender). Another would be to force such messages into moderation, but that creates an inconvenience for the moderators.

Pseudonymous remailers are used to send and receive untraceable email
(aka nym servers).
I'm not familiar with their use, but from what I understand as long as the group subscription has the nym's address then those messages should pass SPF and therefor DMARC, should pass my test (header-from aligned with SPF), and if the nym server signs the message correctly would pass DKIM as well.

That is, I don't know if Groups.io would know that the message came from a nym server, except by having a list of nym server domains.

Shal


moderated Re: Cases of email address spoofing?

Drew
 

Pseudonymous remailers are used to send and receive untraceable email (aka nym servers).

Instead of blocking email because it fails SPF or DKIM (if that is what's being proposed) might Groups.io simply stamp a conspicuous warning on the email and let subscribers make their own determination?

FWIW, there is at least one add-on for Thunderbird email that displays the result of DKIM verification by shading the "From" header with different colors. Perhaps Groups.io would want to do something similar.

Drew


moderated Re: specifying width of a database column #suggestion

 

On Sun, Nov 26, 2017 at 11:20 am, Arno Martens wrote:
Don't know if I fully understand the problem but if it is the last
column it does not need to be limited as it will only spill over in
unused columns.
The problem is that the column is all stretched out like it's going through a black hole. :) I'm looking for a way to widen the display. It's very long, leaving tons of blank space in the columns that come before it.
 
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: specifying width of a database column #suggestion

Arno Martens
 

Sun, 26 Nov 2017 07:27:08 -0800, "J_Catlady"
<j.olivia.catlady@gmail.com>, wrote:

I haven't found a way to specify the width of a database column. I currently have one column that tends to go on for many inches in some of the rows because it is so narrow. It's the "misc. notes" column and therefore one in which members will tend to insert a lot of text into, and it therefore, because it's so narrow, stretches to very long in contrast to the other shorter columns.

Is there a way to specify this that I'm just not seeing? If not, adding it - AND/OR a way to limit character length, which I've also suggested in the past - would be extremely helpful for usability.

Don't know if I fully understand the problem but if it is the last
column it does not need to be limited as it will only spill over in
unused columns.

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