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moderated Re: find member activity by clicking on member link in post #suggestion

Bob Bellizzi
 

Sorry I've off line for other stuff.  All one needs is the left part of the email address which is usually the unique portion.
Figleaf doesn't interfere.
I didn't say it wasn't convoluted but it works. I'm used to having to use workarounds to compensate for under interfaced software.
Far too few programmers ever consider the potential issues the user might have.  At IBM user interface was never loser interface.

--

Bob Bellizzi

Founder, Fuchs Friends ®
Founder & Executive Director, The Corneal Dystrophy Foundation


moderated Re: suggestion: option to limit file attachment size in messages #suggestion

Rob Follett
 

On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 05:12 pm, Shal Farley wrote:

> I set the 5Mb limit when setting up the group, and haven't
> subsequently changed it.

Saying that you set "the xx limit" causes me doubt that you're
understanding me. There isn't a single size limit setting for the group
- there are only individual members' settings in each member's
Subscription page.

So I'll ask another way: did you change the setting on:
1) the Default Sub Settings page,
2) your own Subscription setting, and / or
3) each page in the Members list of your group at that time?
OK...

I set the 5Mb limit when setting up the group on April 17th this year, on the default sub settings page, assuming this would act as a limit group wide.

I did this before importing users and messages from yahoogroups, and haven't subsequently changed it for myself.

Since virtually all 87 members of the group are using the group as a simple mailing list rather than logging in to groups.io I doubt anyone else has either...

> My point, and request, was that it should be possible for the group
> owner to set limits globally and if necessary override per member
> settings.

Ok.

In my earlier reply I was assuming that you would want that group-wide
limit applied at the receipt of the message (which would affect what is
available in the group's Messages section).

I'm generally not a big fan of moderators overriding members'
subscription settings, or meddling with them except by request. But I
can see making a case for the ability to make a bulk change to each
member's setting as being useful for correcting an earlier misjudgment
or oversight in the default setting (1, above), or a change in
circumstances since then.
No misjudgement in this case as I set the default setting (1, above) when I created the group before importing users and haven't altered it since.

What I'm asking for is to be able to set an upper limit on attachment size on the main settings menu for the group (under "Message Formatting > Attachments) with the option to bounce or strip if attachment size exceeded, in addition to the current options of Allow, Bounce or Strip.

Reason for this is that list members on the list in question are not particularly IT literate, and keep forwarding messages with huge attachments - however, I don't want to set group to bounce or strip ALL attachments

I'd assumed the setting under default sub-settings would take care of that but apparently not...

> If the limits set are effectively being ignored (or bypassed by email
> with attachments being forwarded rather than sent as a normal email)

I doubt that the limits are being ignored or bypassed, but I don't know
what you mean about being forwarded. If a member received a message with
large attachments and then forwarded the message to the group I'm
certain that would be handled the same as attachments to a new message
or to a reply.
I mean forwarded with attachments exactly as you describe above.

Some such messages are coming through to the list and being delivered to list members (including those reading mail on mobile devices) with attachments much larger than 5MB (either per file or in total)

> ... and raised the matter here with the intention of submitting both
> a feature request, and reporting a possible bug.

I hope you'll have patience with all my comments and questions. I'm
trying to describe and understand your desired feature, as well as
clarify what already exists.
No problem, Shal, your intentions are understood and appreciated

Shal
All the best,

Rob


moderated Site updates #changelog

 

Changes to the site this week:

  • CHANGE: Clarification in the help on hashtag behavior.
  • CHANGE: Changes to /leave link behavior:
    • If you click on a leave link and are logged in as someone else, you are logged out.
    • If you are logged out, you are not then logged in as the person the /leave link belongs to.
    • If you are logged in as the person the /leave link belongs to, you are still logged in.
    • I re-ordered the buttons for leaving, putting the 'Leave Group' button last.
    • The email address of the account is now displayed on the page.
  • BUGFIX: The Vote link in poll messages didn't work for some people without permission to add a new poll.
  • CHANGE: Much more accurate count of total search results when using the 'collapse topics' option.
  • BUGFIX: When trying to view a deleted event, now show a banner explaining it's been deleted.
  • BUGFIX: Couldn't approve a pending message from someone who has already unsubscribed and when the group is set to moderate new users.
  • CHANGE: Column hiding when viewing a table is remembered as you page through the table. Also the buttons look nicer.
  • BUGFIX: The /updategroup and /deletegroup API end points returned invalid_permissions when they should not.
  • BUGFIX: We were not processing some bounce emails that were marked as being autoresponder messages.
  • INTERNAL: Gathering SPF responses on inbound messages for testing/possible future use.
  • CHANGE: Changed format of ICS files to try to fix erroneous timezone problem with a couple of calendar programs.
  • CHANGE: When creating the #guidelines hashtag when sending the group guidelines, set Mods Only Post and Mods Only Reply to true, and if the guidelines should be sent special, set the tag to Special as well.
  • CHANGE: Wording changes to help and group notices.
  • INTERNAL: Using the search cluster for viewing messages by month/year to take load off main db.
  • NEW: Search results have the topics actions dropdown when viewing collapsed topics.
  • BUGFIX: Search results were displayed incorrectly when summaries had HTML unsafe characters.

Have a good weekend everybody.

Mark


moderated Re: find member activity by clicking on member link in post #suggestion

 

J,

It would be infinitely convenient if moderators clicking on a member
attribution could be taken directly to the member's page instead of
their profile.
Agreed.

I understand there needs (although seldom in my case) to be a way to
get to the profile, but it seems that could be worked out some other
way.
Find them in the Directory (once that's been enhanced a bit), assuming at least mods and owners can see it.
https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/15222

Or, leave the attribution link as is and add another link -- one which is only shown to mods and owners -- that goes to the member's page. The text of that other could be, for example, the member's email address placed right after their display name. Or that could be in the More menu if putting it near the attribution seems too cluttered. Though if it were hidden away in the More menu I'd likely as not hit the Profile link by accident first.

Shal

--
https://groups.io/g/Group_Help
https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum


moderated Re: /leave link changes

 

Mark,

- If you click on a leave link and are logged in as someone else, you
are logged out.
I still contend that this is a mistake - very astonishing to most people (people with only one registered address at Groups.io) who happen to click on a CC'd or forwarded link.

Instead I recommend that the landing page in this case show an error message telling the user that they clicked on a link that was for someone else (contained in a message that was sent to someone else's email address).

To handle the case of a user with two registered email addresses, who happened to be logged in to the wrong one when they clicked the link, include a Log Out button on the error page so that they can then log in to the correct account. And then maybe be redirected to the correct landing page.

- The email address of the account is now displayed on the page.
In the case above, I would say show both addresses, the one from the link and the one currently logged in, for clarity.

I think there's scant privacy problem showing the address from the link - it was likely in the message that brought this user the link - unless some chain of forwards was involved.

As best I can tell, the security hole that J experienced is closed
with these changes.
And would still be closed the way I suggests - since no one gets automatically logged in.

Shal
--
https://groups.io/g/Group_Help
https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum


moderated Re: reply-to-sender coded hashtag results in "you are not allowed to post to this topic" via email #bug

 

J,

When a hashtag is set to reply-to-sender ... when people respond via
email, some of them - and this seems random - get a bounce message
with a groups.io explanation "500: Error: You are not allowed to post
to this thread."
That's correct behavior on Groups.io's part - they aren't allowed to post to that thread because, per the hashtag, replies should go to the sender instead.

The randomness comes from the behavior of the replying member's email client. Most correctly send the reply only to the sender and they don't get an error back. At least not from Groups.io, as they would not have received anything.

But sometimes the email service will reply to the sender with a CC to the group's posting address. In some cases this may be because the user has opted for "Reply to All" as their default reply, in other cases it may be a mis-feature of the email interface.

Perhaps the hashtag code is only meant to work with web replies, and
not with email?
No, it is intended for both.

But apparently some email services don't do the expected thing, or the user has forgotten that they set "Reply to All" as default and didn't notice the CC in their composition window. In mobile email interfaces the CC might not be shown unless one "opens" some header details.

Perhaps it's a simple matter of an erroneous error message, and the
error message could simply be eliminated?
The error message could be more specific "... because this thread is marked ReplyToSender". But I'm not sure those same people won't be just as confused/concerned that their condolence didn't go through.

Shal

--
https://groups.io/g/Group_Help
https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum


moderated /leave link changes

 

Hi All,

I've procrastinated more than enough, so I made a couple of small changes to how the leave link works:

- If you click on a leave link and are logged in as someone else, you are logged out. 
- If you are logged out, you are not then logged in as the person the /leave link belongs to.
- If you are logged in as the person the /leave link belongs to, you are still logged in.

- I re-ordered the buttons for leaving, putting the 'Leave Group' button last.
- The email address of the account is now displayed on the page.

As best I can tell, the security hole that J experienced is closed with these changes.

The security hole that exists when you forward a group email to someone else still exists, in that they can still unsubscribe you by clicking the /leave link.

Thanks,
Mark


moderated Re: membership administration

 

David,

I was looking at the Directory listing.
Which brings up a different suggestion: Add a search box to the Directory.

One wouldn't be able to search by email address (unless you're moderate the group, perhaps), but one could at least search by the visible name and the available (by hover) @user name.

Perhaps also by field contents within the member's profile. And perhaps there could be a Filter tool to limit the results to a join date or date range. A Filter tool for the Members list too, while we're at it.

All in the name of consistency (Hi Mark!) -- after all the Directory is just another list of content items with metadata.

Shal

--
https://groups.io/g/Group_Help
https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum


moderated Re: find member activity by clicking on member link in post #suggestion

 

On Fri, Nov 10, 2017 at 10:01 am, Bob Bellizzi wrote:
I will usually go to More/View Source and double click on a part of the email address in the From: line of the header.
That's pretty convoluted. (It also didn't work for me....in one case the the email address was fig-leafed, in another it was barely findable except way way down in the source code, and even when findable, it was not clickable - so maybe I misunderstood what you do?)
 
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: find member activity by clicking on member link in post #suggestion

Bob Bellizzi
 

I will usually go to More/View Source and double click on a part of the email address in the From: line of the header.
As backup I keep an Access DB of members from our Join Request Form  which gives me several possible fields for searching.
But I agree that more direct way  to  link to their member's page would speed things up
--

Bob Bellizzi

Founder, Fuchs Friends ®
Founder & Executive Director, The Corneal Dystrophy Foundation


moderated Re: reply-to-sender coded hashtag results in "you are not allowed to post to this topic" via email #bug

 

p.s. Two details: (1) I at first thought the problem was that our group was set to "remove other reply options," but that is now unchecked and it still happens, and it happened in my testing as well in a group that was similarly uncheckedl; (2) it happens whether the person clicks on "reply to group" or just "reply".

J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: membership administration

 

On 10 Nov 2017, at 14:33, Dave <w1hkj@...> wrote:

 I was looking at the Directory listing.  Right church, wrong pew.

:-)

kind regards

Nick
__

dUNMUR | member of the AOP


moderated reply-to-sender coded hashtag results in "you are not allowed to post to this topic" via email #bug

 

I've reported this to support twice but (a) it seems to have fallen through the cracks, and (b) I've been very curious about whether other groups are experiencing it, so I am finally posting it here.

When a hashtag is set to reply-to-sender and someone replies via the web, everything works fine (even in a group set to reply-to-group with "remove other reply options" set). However, when people respond via email, some of them - and this seems random - get a bounce message with a groups.io explanation "500: Error: You are not allowed to post to this thread."

This has happened with both yahoo and gmail email addresses. I ran some tests and discovered that in the case I tested that resulted in the error message, the reply actually *did* reach the recipient and that the error message was erroneous. Nevertheless, this has caused great havoc in my group, since we are using this kind of hashtag for condolence messages(*), and people are feeling very upset thinking that their condolences didn't get through, they're trying again, they're contacting me offlist, they're posting about it to the group, etc. 

Is anyone else aware that their group is experiencing this problem? It does not happen with every reply - only some of them, and I haven't been able to figure out the circumstances under which it happens. Perhaps the hashtag code is only meant to work with web replies, and not with email? Perhaps it's a simple matter of an erroneous error message, and the error message could simply be eliminated?
--
J

(*) we took a page out of Helen's tanyackd playbook for this 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated find member activity by clicking on member link in post #suggestion

 

For a long time I've struggled with the fact that clicking on a member's link in the attribution to a recent post of theirs takes you only to their profile, not to their activity page. To get to their member page, you have to either do a search on the member list, or, what I've been doing, go to the group activity log, find "xyz sent message bla bla," and click on xyz there.

I have rarely (maybe 1 time in 1,000?) wanted to go to the member's profile. I almost exclusively want to see their activity and their page as a whole.

It would be infinitely convenient if moderators clicking on a member attribution could be taken directly to the member's page instead of their profile. I understand there needs (although seldom in my case) to be a way to get to the profile, but it seems that could be worked out some other way. The priority is currently skewed towards seeing the profile, which rarely (in my group, at least) contains useful information, or at least, the information that I'd want to see about a member.
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: membership administration

Dave
 

Thank you Nick.  I was looking at the Directory listing.  Right church, wrong pew.

David


moderated Re: membership administration

 

On 10 Nov 2017, at 12:16, Dave <w1hkj@...> wrote:

Locating an entry in the membership list is not very intuitive.  Scrolling through a list of >2600 entries is rather tedious.  Is there a search procedure available?

Top of the page in ‘Members’ - there is a Search box.

kind regards

Nick
__

dUNMUR | member of the AOP


moderated membership administration

Dave
 

Locating an entry in the membership list is not very intuitive.  Scrolling through a list of >2600 entries is rather tedious.  Is there a search procedure available?

Thank you.

David
linuxham, nbems owner


moderated Re: Updates group has not been posted in for a very long time!

Andre Polykanine <andre@...>
 

Hi Mark,
If you or someone else at your team develops an IOs/Android app,
please keep screen reader accessibility in mind. I know you're good at
this (that's why lots of blind people migrate to Groups.io these
times), but I still decided to remind you about this. If testing is
needed, we are always here.


--
With best regards from Ukraine,
Andre
Skype: menelion_elensule
Twitter: @m_elensule; Facebook: menelion

------------ Original message ------------
From: Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io>
To: main@beta.groups.io
Date created: , 2:16:58 AM
Subject: [beta] Updates group has not been posted in for a very long time!


Hi All,


Thanks for the input. Cross-posting the #changelog messages to the updates group with no mail set is a good idea, and I will set that up.


As for why I haven't posted, it's basically what Jujube said; this year has been mostly lots of small updates (revamped search being the biggest update, if I remember correctly). It hasn't felt like there were any big update worthy features, but perhaps I'm just too close to things.


I had hoped to be able to announce an iOS/Android app about now, but as is typical with software, my estimates of how long things take are sometimes comically off. Hopefully first quarter next year.


Thanks,
Mark

On Wed, Nov 8, 2017 at 11:04 AM, Jujube <ellaxyu@gmail.com> wrote:

Great idea.  How about an update a few times per year (minimum 3).

----- Original Message -----
From: "Shal Farley" <shals2nd@gmail.com
To: main@beta.groups.io
Date sent: Wed, 08 Nov 2017 10:46:44 -0800
Subject: Re: [beta] Updates group has not been posted in for a very long time!

Frances,

Post the updates there too? Easy to do.

Weekly emails to that many users might be too much.  Especially when so
much of it is at the detail level or invisible to users.

But having the #changelog postings in the Updates archive where they'll
be found bo those who look there could make sense.  Mark could do this by
posting to both beta and updates, but have the #changelog hashtag in
updates carry the NoEmail option.

That said, it would also be good to remember periodically (Quarterly?
Semi-annual?) to post an overview that highlights the more significant
updates.

Shal

--
https://groups.io/g/Group_Help
https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum


moderated Re: suggestion: option to limit file attachment size in messages #suggestion

ro-esp
 

Just wondering.. are viruses still a problem? I vaguely remember feeling a need for a 20 KB-limit because
1) smaller viruses hadn't been developed
2) 20 KB in plain text is about as much as I could handle

groetjes, Ronaldo


moderated Re: Updates group has not been posted in for a very long time!

 

I had hoped to be able to announce an iOS/Android app
about now, but as is typical with software, my estimates
of how long things take are sometimes comically off.
The best estimator for how long a job should take was first offered to me as a corollary to Murphy's Law. It stated that to determine how long something will take, first determine how long you think it should take. Then double that number and change to the next larger unit of measure. Thus a two hour job will likely take four days, and a two day job will be closer to a month. Unfortunately, sometimes it seems to be more accurate than I'd like.

dano

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