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moderated Re: "Guidelines" now publicly visible! #suggestion #bug

Janet_Catlady
 

Haha.;)

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 25, 2017, at 11:22 PM, Shal Farley <shals2nd@gmail.com> wrote:

J,

Tell that to the groups whose guidelines DO contain private
information ...
Dear groups whose guidelines DO contain private information,

Please take the private information out of your Guidelines.

Yours sincerely,

Shal


and have been relying on that.
Can't have been. Guidelines have only existed for a short time, and have been public that entire time.

Shal

--
https://groups.io/g/Group_Help
https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum


--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu
moderated Re: "Guidelines" now publicly visible! #suggestion #bug

Shal Farley
 

J,

Tell that to the groups whose guidelines DO contain private
information ...
Dear groups whose guidelines DO contain private information,

Please take the private information out of your Guidelines.

Yours sincerely,

Shal


and have been relying on that.
Can't have been. Guidelines have only existed for a short time, and have been public that entire time.

Shal

--
https://groups.io/g/Group_Help
https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum
moderated Re: "Guidelines" now publicly visible! #suggestion #bug

Janet_Catlady
 

On Mon, Sep 25, 2017 at 11:08 pm, Tony Moody wrote:
Otherwise how do they know what they are letting
themselves in for?
The same way they always didL join the group, be sent a copy of the group guidelines (please remember: these used to be sent in private emails, to members only) and find out, and leave if it doesn't suit them.

This has NEVER been made public before and there was no problem. Not in yahoo groups, and not here, until *I* (silly me) proposed the "guidelines" tab and the guidelines entity and the whole shebang. It was my idea and I now am almost wishing I'd never suggested it or pushed on it. If I'd known it was going to be made public, I would not have wasted my energy. And if it's made public without an option to turn that off, I simply won't use it.
 
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu
moderated Re: "Guidelines" now publicly visible! #suggestion #bug

Tony Moody
 

I am with Shal on this one.

For prospective members to a restricted group it would be good to be able to read a set of the
guidelines on-line (or be sent them). Otherwise how do they know what they are letting
themselves in for?

OK,
Tony

On 25 Sep 2017 at 18:18, Shal Farley wrote about :
Subject : Re: [beta] "Guidelines" now publicl

Mark,

> I have changed the group guidelines to only be visible to subscribers.

I disagree with this change.

It makes it difficult for a group with Restricted membership to let
prospective members know what the rules will be if they join the group.
I don't want to make the whole of the Wiki public for just that page,
nor all of Messages certainly.

Having the Guidelines be public seemed like the perfect solution. I
doesn't make sense to me that a group's guidelines would contain any
private information.

The Pending member notification is almost good enough for this, but even
for this the person must make the decision to apply for membership
before they are told the rules they'll be expected to follow. Seems a
little like bait-and-switch to me.

(And, of course, having to keep a second copy of the guidelines in the
Pending notice would violate J's abhorrence for maintaining multiple
copies - not that I'm actually very concerned by that issue).

Shal

--
https://groups.io/g/Group_Help
https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum
moderated Re: Event: Database Upgrade, Tuesday, 26 September 2017 #downtime #cal-invite

Dave Sergeant
 

And now Thursday morning, long time yet...

Dave

On 26 Sep 2017 at 6:45, Dave Sergeant wrote:

I always struggle trying to work out what your times are in ours. I
think it is 5am-6am UK time Wednesday morning so hopefully most of us
will still be in the land of nod. But thanks for the warning.

Dave

On 25 Sep 2017 at 9:03, main@beta.groups.io Calendar wrote:

When: Tuesday, 26 September 2017
9:00pm to 10:00pm
(GMT-07:00) America/Los Angeles
Description: The site will be down for a database upgrade. Emails sent
during this time will be queued and sent when the site is back up.
This is a required prerequisite to switching to the new search system,
and is the only downtime I anticipate needing for that. The actual
switchover to the new search will probably happen in another week. I
will put up a banner on the site during the day tomorrow announcing
the downtime.

http://davesergeant.com




http://davesergeant.com
moderated Re: Event: Database Upgrade, Tuesday, 26 September 2017 #downtime #cal-invite

Dave Sergeant
 

I always struggle trying to work out what your times are in ours. I
think it is 5am-6am UK time Wednesday morning so hopefully most of us
will still be in the land of nod. But thanks for the warning.

Dave

On 25 Sep 2017 at 9:03, main@beta.groups.io Calendar wrote:

When: Tuesday, 26 September 2017
9:00pm to 10:00pm
(GMT-07:00) America/Los Angeles
Description: The site will be down for a database upgrade. Emails sent
during this time will be queued and sent when the site is back up. This
is a required prerequisite to switching to the new search system, and is
the only downtime I anticipate needing for that. The actual switchover
to the new search will probably happen in another week. I will put up a
banner on the site during the day tomorrow announcing the downtime.

http://davesergeant.com
moderated Re: CORRECTION: Event: Database Upgrade, Wednesday, 27 September 2017 #downtime #cal-invite

Janet_Catlady
 

 I'm still guessing that email will still be ok
"Emails sent during this time will be queued and sent when the site is back up."
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu
moderated Re: CORRECTION: Event: Database Upgrade, Wednesday, 27 September 2017 #downtime #cal-invite

Sarah k Alawami
 

No worries. I'm still guessing that email will still be ok and that if someone happens to send a message to my list during the down time it will still get through? I'm guessing yet, but it never hurts to ask.

Take care all.

On Sep 25, 2017, at 5:49 PM, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:

Oops. I made a scheduling error. The downtime will be Wednesday, September 27, 2017, not tomorrow as first announced. I forgot that I had a previously scheduled dinner tomorrow night.

Thanks,
Mark
moderated Re: "Guidelines" now publicly visible! #suggestion #bug

Janet_Catlady
 

...or make them public iff the group has public archives. Something like that.

On Mon, Sep 25, 2017 at 8:43 PM, J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:
Why not make them public for public (unrestricted) groups and private for private (restricted) groups?
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu



--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu
moderated Re: "Guidelines" now publicly visible! #suggestion #bug

Janet_Catlady
 

Why not make them public for public (unrestricted) groups and private for private (restricted) groups?
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu
moderated Re: "Guidelines" now publicly visible! #suggestion #bug

Janet_Catlady
 

I thought we'd been over all this already.
J

On Mon, Sep 25, 2017 at 7:29 PM, J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:
On Mon, Sep 25, 2017 at 06:52 pm, Mark Fletcher wrote:
J, what are the reasons you'd like the guidelines to be private?
 I'm responding to these in order. One particular thing in our group was the signature below the guidelines, consisting of the entire administrative team for my group. That information should not be public. There are other, more intimate ways of phrasing things that I would leave out or re-word if the guidelines had to be public. There are details that I would leave out, and those details need to be included. Making the guidelines public is a deal-breaker for me. I would have to create a completely separate document that I would have to send out separately, and all the convenience of having a guideline entity at all would be down the drain.

At minimum, please make the visibility a group option.

Thanks for your consideration.

--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu



--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu
moderated Re: "Guidelines" now publicly visible! #suggestion #bug

Janet_Catlady
 

On Mon, Sep 25, 2017 at 06:52 pm, Mark Fletcher wrote:
J, what are the reasons you'd like the guidelines to be private?
I'm responding to these in order. One particular thing in our group was the signature below the guidelines, consisting of the entire administrative team for my group. That information should not be public. There are other, more intimate ways of phrasing things that I would leave out or re-word if the guidelines had to be public. There are details that I would leave out, and those details need to be included. Making the guidelines public is a deal-breaker for me. I would have to create a completely separate document that I would have to send out separately, and all the convenience of having a guideline entity at all would be down the drain.

At minimum, please make the visibility a group option.

Thanks for your consideration.

--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu
moderated Re: "Guidelines" now publicly visible! #suggestion #bug

Janet_Catlady
 

On Mon, Sep 25, 2017 at 06:18 pm, Shal Farley wrote:
I doesn't make sense to me that a group's guidelines would contain any private information.
Tell that to the groups whose guidelines DO contain private information and have been relying on that. If it's going to be public, just let me know and I'll remove the private info.

Now that it's private, I've restored it to its former state. If it can be an option, I'll check the box. It was a shock to find out that it had suddenly become public. 
 
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu
moderated Re: "Guidelines" now publicly visible! #suggestion #bug

Mark Fletcher
 

On Mon, Sep 25, 2017 at 6:18 PM, Shal Farley <shals2nd@...> wrote:

> I have changed the group guidelines to only be visible to subscribers.

 I disagree with this change.

It makes it difficult for a group with Restricted membership to let prospective members know what the rules will be if they join the group. I don't want to make the whole of the Wiki public for just that page, nor all of Messages certainly.

That's a good point. J, what are the reasons you'd like the guidelines to be private?

Thanks,
Mark 
moderated Re: "Guidelines" now publicly visible! #suggestion #bug

Shal Farley
 

Mark,

I have changed the group guidelines to only be visible to subscribers.
I disagree with this change.

It makes it difficult for a group with Restricted membership to let prospective members know what the rules will be if they join the group. I don't want to make the whole of the Wiki public for just that page, nor all of Messages certainly.

Having the Guidelines be public seemed like the perfect solution. I doesn't make sense to me that a group's guidelines would contain any private information.

The Pending member notification is almost good enough for this, but even for this the person must make the decision to apply for membership before they are told the rules they'll be expected to follow. Seems a little like bait-and-switch to me.

(And, of course, having to keep a second copy of the guidelines in the Pending notice would violate J's abhorrence for maintaining multiple copies - not that I'm actually very concerned by that issue).

Shal

--
https://groups.io/g/Group_Help
https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum
moderated Re: CORRECTION: Event: Database Upgrade, Wednesday, 27 September 2017 #downtime #cal-invite

Janet_Catlady
 

Dinner takes precedence! :-)
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu
moderated CORRECTION: Event: Database Upgrade, Wednesday, 27 September 2017 #downtime #cal-invite

Mark Fletcher
 

Oops. I made a scheduling error. The downtime will be Wednesday, September 27, 2017, not tomorrow as first announced. I forgot that I had a previously scheduled dinner tomorrow night.

Thanks,
Mark
moderated Re: Event: Database Upgrade, Tuesday, 26 September 2017 #downtime #cal-invite

Mark Fletcher
 

On Mon, Sep 25, 2017 at 10:12 AM, Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@...> wrote:
Thanks. should  we let our lists know? Mine is low traffic  but will email servers etc be effected? Or are we pretty much ok?


Up to you whether to tell your group or not, of course. Nothing will change with the service, so your users don't have to do anything.

Cheers,
Mark 
moderated Re: "Guidelines" now publicly visible! #suggestion #bug

Janet_Catlady
 

Great, thanks! I would still (mildly) lobby for a checkbox so that the guidelines can "undergo maintenance" once in awhile. But no biggie.:)
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu
moderated Re: "Guidelines" now publicly visible! #suggestion #bug

Mark Fletcher
 

Hi All,

I have changed the group guidelines to only be visible to subscribers. I have not added an active checkbox, because it doesn't seem to me that guidelines are something you would turn on and off on a regular basis. 

Thanks,
Mark

On Mon, Sep 25, 2017 at 3:03 PM, Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@...> wrote:
I'm sure it can, and I like the idea. We'll see if the person making changes agrees, or at least can implement this so we can give this a try.

Take care all.

On Sep 25, 2017, at 10:31 AM, J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

I mainly just want to know if the public access can be made optional. 
J

On Mon, Sep 25, 2017 at 10:15 AM, Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@...> wrote:
Well date changed could be a good thign in the guidelines as what if a person outside saw that, they made you aware of that for some reason and you were not the one that made the change, someone else did. Now, I'm not sure what mods have in terms of list access, but those are my thoughts with not enough coffee in me yet.
On Sep 24, 2017, at 10:57 PM, J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

That's interesting. I was totally unaware of that. Still, I think the "last updated" is sitting at the bottom of the notice like a fish out of water. It looks like it doesn't belong. 

On Sun, Sep 24, 2017 at 10:50 PM, Duane <txpigeon@...> wrote:
On Sun, Sep 24, 2017 at 08:41 pm, J_Catlady wrote:

>
> Are you talking about all files, etc.? Because that is not the case now.
>

Since it's no longer possible to upload files with duplicate names and all of my files show the date they were uploaded, that would be the date of last update/revision.  I haven't found a place, other than photos, that doesn't have the most recent change date.  Unfortunately, it's still possible to upload photos with a duplicate name, so I have to check if there is more than one with a specific name and compare them.

Duane





-- 
J
 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu








-- 
J
 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu
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