Date   

moderated Re: New Search Suggestion

 

On Sat, Aug 19, 2017 at 09:08 pm, Sarah k Alawami wrote:
Can you not create a data base that's accessible to the group that lists city, state, etc?
You can build it, but they won't come. I have such a database in my group and less than 10% of the members add themselves to it. It languishes. At some point, Mark said he would allow entry of pending member questionnaire answers to go directly into a database. But that may be only for premium groups, and it may be far into the future.

Databases have not been useful in my group overall.
 
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: New Search Suggestion

Sarah k Alawami
 

Can you not create a data base that's accessible to the group that lists city, state, etc? This way the signature doesn't have to be created in the first place? Thinking  organizationally here.

On Aug 19, 2017, at 12:42 PM, Bob Bellizzi <cdfexec@...> wrote:

Mark,
Because our group is fairly large, over 3000 members, we encourage our members to build signatures so that others may know "who they are corresponding  with.
The signatures typically include first name, city, state & country if not US.
In addition, since we have a rare genetic cornea disease, who their specialist is, what procedures they have had on each eye, etc.
This helps new members a great deal, gives them an understanding of what experience the correspondent has.

A great help for us would be the ability to have a bit more selection on what we search with the new search tool.

Could we consider being able to search only signatures?  Since they can be excluded currently it would seem a logical step to allow exclusion of each part of a message; topic (subject); body: signature.

Bob Bellizzi


moderated New Search Suggestion

Bob Bellizzi
 

Mark,
Because our group is fairly large, over 3000 members, we encourage our members to build signatures so that others may know "who they are corresponding  with.
The signatures typically include first name, city, state & country if not US.
In addition, since we have a rare genetic cornea disease, who their specialist is, what procedures they have had on each eye, etc.
This helps new members a great deal, gives them an understanding of what experience the correspondent has.

A great help for us would be the ability to have a bit more selection on what we search with the new search tool.

Could we consider being able to search only signatures?  Since they can be excluded currently it would seem a logical step to allow exclusion of each part of a message; topic (subject); body: signature.

Bob Bellizzi


moderated Re: "Find or Create a Group" search bug, or I think it is #bug

Jeremy H
 

On Fri, Aug 18, 2017 at 04:25 pm, Jeremy Harrison wrote:
 I would suggest that if a group has a subgroup that is sufficiently distinct that it should be be able to be found directly then something should be put in the group description.     
Thinking further on this, maybe (probably) such a sub group should be a goup in its own right. 


moderated Site updates #changelog

 

Changes to the site this week:

  • INTERNAL: Work on the API.
  • CHANGE: If not registered, and trying to subscribe to a subgroup via email, stop with an error before the confirmation process.
  • CHANGE: In the Members view, have the Actions menu dropdown normally, only dropup on mobile.
  • INTERNAL: Bumped up the rate limits for logged in users and we now tell you when you've been rate limited, instead of you getting a blank page.
  • INTERNAL: For Yahoo easy group transfers, we now delay sending messages to transferred people until all data has been imported.

Have a good weekend everybody.

Mark


moderated Re: "Find or Create a Group" search bug, or I think it is #bug

Jeremy H
 

Had a quick look - as a a non-member of NVDA, I don't see the subgroup on its homepage.

And in looking at search results, it seems to be looking at group title/e-mail address and description (as an aside, it is interesting how verbose or succinct some of these are), based on what I've seen returned: which is what I think I'd expect. Don't know if there's any description of how search works anywhere.

Given how subgroups work, I wouldn't expect to find one directly, only through its parent main group. I would suggest that if a group has a subgroup that is sufficiently distinct that it should be be able to be found directly, or together with the main group, then something should be put in the group description.     


moderated Re: "Find or Create a Group" search bug, or I think it is #bug

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

Now I'll go "meta," but it is related.

It really doesn't matter whether one has to be a member of the parent group or not simply because were one to try to join a subgroup, and membership in the parent group is required, I'd presume the user would get an error message to that effect.

But, subgroups as they are implemented on Groups.io are complete dead zones for a reason:  virtually no one knows they exist unless they happened to be members of the parent group when they were created and joined then.  Even then they tend to be dead zones because they are not presented hierarchically on the Topics or Messages pages of the parent group, encouraging click through to further explore or engage.

Until or unless Groups.io adopts a display mechanism where those who routinely interact with a parent group are also routinely reminded that subgroups both exist and that they can get to them in a flash from where they're reading the main group they will continue to remain the dead ends that every one I've ever joined has essentially remained.
--
Brian  - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1703, Build 15063  (dot level on request - it changes too often to keep in signature)
I worry a lot. . . I worry that no matter how cynical you become it's never enough to keep up.
    ~ Trudy, in Jane Wagner's 
            Search for Signs of Intelligent Life in the Universe


moderated Re: "Find or Create a Group" search bug, or I think it is #bug

Sarah k Alawami
 

I do agree as well. Although doesn't one in theory need to be a member of theeparent group in order to join the child group as it were? I could be wrong I know this was discussed this week on this or the manager group I'm a part of.

Still though, the child groups should in theory need to be in the search results to help users find them.

Take care and be blessed.

On Aug 18, 2017, at 10:17 AM, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:

Hi,

In principle, I agree, as I’m in a similar situation with Win10 forum where there is a subgroup designed for Windows Insiders, and I’m sure others have subgroups that should be listed in public directory.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: main@beta.groups.io [mailto:main@beta.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Friday, August 18, 2017 9:41 AM
To: main@beta.groups.io
Subject: [beta] "Find or Create a Group" search bug, or I think it is #bug

 

When one goes to the NVDA Group Home Page one sees a subgroup called devlearning with the e-mail address devlearning@nvda.groups.io

as well as two other subgroups.  However, if you search using "Find or Create a Group" on devlearning it returns nothing and if you search on NVDA it returns 16 different options, but none of which include the subgroups.

It seems to me that subgroups need to be included when someone is doing this type of search.
--
Brian  - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1703, Build 15063  (dot level on request - it changes too often to keep in signature)
I worry a lot. . . I worry that no matter how cynical you become it's never enough to keep up.
    
~ Trudy, in Jane Wagner's 

            Search for Signs of Intelligent Life in the Universe




moderated Re: "Find or Create a Group" search bug, or I think it is #bug

Sarah k Alawami
 

I do agree as well. Although doesn't one in theory need to be a member of theeparent group in order to join the child group as it were? I could be wrong I know this was discussed this week on this or the manager group I'm a part of.

Still though, the child groups should in theory need to be in the search results to help users find them.

Take care and be blessed.

On Aug 18, 2017, at 10:17 AM, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:

Hi,

In principle, I agree, as I’m in a similar situation with Win10 forum where there is a subgroup designed for Windows Insiders, and I’m sure others have subgroups that should be listed in public directory.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: main@beta.groups.io [mailto:main@beta.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Friday, August 18, 2017 9:41 AM
To: main@beta.groups.io
Subject: [beta] "Find or Create a Group" search bug, or I think it is #bug

 

When one goes to the NVDA Group Home Page one sees a subgroup called devlearning with the e-mail address devlearning@nvda.groups.io

as well as two other subgroups.  However, if you search using "Find or Create a Group" on devlearning it returns nothing and if you search on NVDA it returns 16 different options, but none of which include the subgroups.

It seems to me that subgroups need to be included when someone is doing this type of search.
--
Brian  - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1703, Build 15063  (dot level on request - it changes too often to keep in signature)
I worry a lot. . . I worry that no matter how cynical you become it's never enough to keep up.
    
~ Trudy, in Jane Wagner's 

            Search for Signs of Intelligent Life in the Universe




moderated Re: "Find or Create a Group" search bug, or I think it is #bug

 

Hi,

In principle, I agree, as I’m in a similar situation with Win10 forum where there is a subgroup designed for Windows Insiders, and I’m sure others have subgroups that should be listed in public directory.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: main@beta.groups.io [mailto:main@beta.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Friday, August 18, 2017 9:41 AM
To: main@beta.groups.io
Subject: [beta] "Find or Create a Group" search bug, or I think it is #bug

 

When one goes to the NVDA Group Home Page one sees a subgroup called devlearning with the e-mail address devlearning@nvda.groups.io

as well as two other subgroups.  However, if you search using "Find or Create a Group" on devlearning it returns nothing and if you search on NVDA it returns 16 different options, but none of which include the subgroups.

It seems to me that subgroups need to be included when someone is doing this type of search.
--
Brian  - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1703, Build 15063  (dot level on request - it changes too often to keep in signature)
I worry a lot. . . I worry that no matter how cynical you become it's never enough to keep up.
    
~ Trudy, in Jane Wagner's 

            Search for Signs of Intelligent Life in the Universe


moderated Re: Allow https:// links to be automatically "linkified" when posted #suggestion

 

I've found that sometimes URLs are linkified automatically and sometimes not. I haven't tried to sort out when it happens and when it doesn't, but since it usually happens, I've come to rely on it to the point where it's a problem when it doesn't (meaning, I don't check or notice until later and then I have to go back and edit the message). This is more problematic with messages posted by other group members rather than my own, because (a) if I'm reading by email I often don't notice until a long time later, during which time other members have not been able to use the link; and (b) the posting member is subjected to a 'your message had been edited by a moderator' message after I do notice and fix it.

Possibly related to this issue, since Brian mentions the existence or lack of text after the URL, is an issue with links in wiki pages that I reported to Mark about a year ago, and which he could not reproduce despite many attempts, namely: any links at the bottom of a wiki page would be unlinkified the next time I went into the page after exiting. I gave up on this issue and haven't checked it lately. I just try to make sure there's always some text below each link in a wiki page.

J

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 18, 2017, at 9:29 AM, Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@...> wrote:

All 3 turned into links for me, the two https links and the http link, so I don't know if it is the mail program or groups.io doing this.

Take care and be blessed.
On Aug 18, 2017, at 9:26 AM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

I, and many others, use HTTPS Everywhere or other security where our browsers force the use of https instead of http whenever possible.  On Groups.io if I post an http link directly into message text, e.g.,

http://duckduckgo.com/?q=windows+10+disable+password+after+sleep&t=h_&atb=v33-7__&ia=web

it consistently automatically gets converted to a click through link, while if I use and https link:

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=windows+10+disable+password+after+sleep&t=h_&atb=v33-7__&ia=web

I now suspect this may be (and for either) because you must hit the space bar afterward in order for the "linkification" to take place.  However, there have been many times when I just paste a link and hit send, and it's not "linkified".   I'll try that here just to see what happens:

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=windows+10+disable+password+after+sleep&t=h_&atb=v33-7__&ia=web
--
Brian  - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1703, Build 15063  (dot level on request - it changes too often to keep in signature)
I worry a lot. . . I worry that no matter how cynical you become it's never enough to keep up.
    ~ Trudy, in Jane Wagner's 
            Search for Signs of Intelligent Life in the Universe


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated "Find or Create a Group" search bug, or I think it is #bug

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

When one goes to the NVDA Group Home Page one sees a subgroup called devlearning with the e-mail address devlearning@nvda.groups.io

as well as two other subgroups.  However, if you search using "Find or Create a Group" on devlearning it returns nothing and if you search on NVDA it returns 16 different options, but none of which include the subgroups.

It seems to me that subgroups need to be included when someone is doing this type of search.
--
Brian  - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1703, Build 15063  (dot level on request - it changes too often to keep in signature)
I worry a lot. . . I worry that no matter how cynical you become it's never enough to keep up.
    ~ Trudy, in Jane Wagner's 
            Search for Signs of Intelligent Life in the Universe


moderated Re: Allow https:// links to be automatically "linkified" when posted #suggestion

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

I guess I need to make clear that I am interfacing strictly through the Groups.io web forum interface.  In that context the last link in the prior post remains as plain text.

That is an important bit of information that I failed to include.
--
Brian  - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1703, Build 15063  (dot level on request - it changes too often to keep in signature)
I worry a lot. . . I worry that no matter how cynical you become it's never enough to keep up.
    ~ Trudy, in Jane Wagner's 
            Search for Signs of Intelligent Life in the Universe


moderated Re: Allow https:// links to be automatically "linkified" when posted #suggestion

Sarah k Alawami
 

All 3 turned into links for me, the two https links and the http link, so I don't know if it is the mail program or groups.io doing this.

Take care and be blessed.

On Aug 18, 2017, at 9:26 AM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

I, and many others, use HTTPS Everywhere or other security where our browsers force the use of https instead of http whenever possible.  On Groups.io if I post an http link directly into message text, e.g.,

http://duckduckgo.com/?q=windows+10+disable+password+after+sleep&t=h_&atb=v33-7__&ia=web

it consistently automatically gets converted to a click through link, while if I use and https link:

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=windows+10+disable+password+after+sleep&t=h_&atb=v33-7__&ia=web

I now suspect this may be (and for either) because you must hit the space bar afterward in order for the "linkification" to take place.  However, there have been many times when I just paste a link and hit send, and it's not "linkified".   I'll try that here just to see what happens:

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=windows+10+disable+password+after+sleep&t=h_&atb=v33-7__&ia=web
--
Brian  - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1703, Build 15063  (dot level on request - it changes too often to keep in signature)
I worry a lot. . . I worry that no matter how cynical you become it's never enough to keep up.
    ~ Trudy, in Jane Wagner's 
            Search for Signs of Intelligent Life in the Universe


moderated Re: Allow https:// links to be automatically "linkified" when posted #suggestion

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

Yup, that final link did not get converted for click through because I did a paste and send without any text being appended after it.

This appears to be the root problem, not http versus https, so modify my wish accordingly.
--
Brian  - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1703, Build 15063  (dot level on request - it changes too often to keep in signature)
I worry a lot. . . I worry that no matter how cynical you become it's never enough to keep up.
    ~ Trudy, in Jane Wagner's 
            Search for Signs of Intelligent Life in the Universe


moderated Allow https:// links to be automatically "linkified" when posted #suggestion

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

I, and many others, use HTTPS Everywhere or other security where our browsers force the use of https instead of http whenever possible.  On Groups.io if I post an http link directly into message text, e.g.,

http://duckduckgo.com/?q=windows+10+disable+password+after+sleep&t=h_&atb=v33-7__&ia=web

it consistently automatically gets converted to a click through link, while if I use and https link:

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=windows+10+disable+password+after+sleep&t=h_&atb=v33-7__&ia=web

I now suspect this may be (and for either) because you must hit the space bar afterward in order for the "linkification" to take place.  However, there have been many times when I just paste a link and hit send, and it's not "linkified".   I'll try that here just to see what happens:

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=windows+10+disable+password+after+sleep&t=h_&atb=v33-7__&ia=web
--
Brian  - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1703, Build 15063  (dot level on request - it changes too often to keep in signature)
I worry a lot. . . I worry that no matter how cynical you become it's never enough to keep up.
    ~ Trudy, in Jane Wagner's 
            Search for Signs of Intelligent Life in the Universe


moderated Re: allow member messages with none active #suggestion

Sarah k Alawami
 

Thanks thanks, that's what I thought. Yeeeee! I did it correct then

Thanks all and be blessed.

On Aug 16, 2017, at 10:44 AM, Shal Farley <shals2nd@gmail.com> wrote:

Sarah,

I wrote the message in the description field of the calendar event.
will the rules still show up in the body of the message?
Whatever you write in the Description field is put in the body of the message. That's where I entered the text you see in my example, under the heading "Description:"

Shal

On Aug 15, 2017, at 11:29 PM, Shal Farley<shals2nd@gmail.com>
wrote:
...
No need to wait, here's an example:
https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum/message/2118


moderated Re: Concern over messages sent to non-group member subscribing to subgroup, not quite a #bug #suggestion

Jeremy H
 

Thanks.

For an e-mail which was not subscribed to main group, but was known to groups.io  (it had been a member of that group, but I had removed it), I did get the 'confirmation' e-mail, on replying to it I got the  'Message not delivered' email with '500 Error: Can't subscribe to a sub group without being a member of the parent group', but not the welcome message.
Once I'd found a fresh e-mail address, that did miss out the confirmation e-mail, just getting the  'Message not delivered' with error 500.

I wouldn't have expected to have the 'confirmation' e-mail in the first case (id known to groups.io) - I tried subscribing the same id to a non-existent group (fred!), and didn't get it,
just the  'Message not delivered' with error 500.
.
Jeremy


moderated Re: allow member messages with none active #suggestion

Ginny T.
 

On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 04:55 pm, Mark Fletcher wrote:
various groups handle this lack in various ways: making the guidelines a sticky message, making them into a file (which is hard to notice unless someone is specifically pointed to it), etc. I think this particular message should stand out on its own and have a dedicated space in every group.
I agree that it would be great to have a tab for it - perhaps "group policy" rather than COC, which could tend to sound a bit off-putting to some. I've always had whateveryouwanttocallit for my groups - and on Groups.io it's a section in the wikis.
 
I thought I had proposed something like this awhile ago, as part of the Code of Conduct discussion. I still think a code of conduct is a good idea, but due to the general resistance here, I've not done anything about it.
I know I'm late to this party, but I agree Mark. I've been running a group for 20 years now, and it can be absolutely dumbfounding at how the idea of "please play nice together" can go out the window when people are empowered with the presumed anonymity of being behind a computer (or device, in today's world, too). Other issues are around people making innocent mistakes, or just not thinking about others on the list.

And not to open a pandora's box here, but in today's world the web and platforms are finding themselves caught in the middle of circumstances that they'd rather not be. Covering those bases (in a very general sense) before the horse is out of the barn can go a long way. There could be a general Groups.io COC and then any individual groups can add to it as applicable/desired.

Ginny

 
--
Ginny T.  gttemari21@...
========
TemariKai.com


moderated Re: Concern over messages sent to non-group member subscribing to subgroup, not quite a #bug #suggestion

 

On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 5:03 PM, J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:
I think Jeremy is saying that the main group is restricted, but the subgroup is unrestricted *with respect to main group members*. I think he's saying that you should have a clearer message ("you cannot join this subgroup since you're not a member of the main group"), not that you should subscribe anyone automatically to the restricted main group. I could be misunderstanding.

Got it. I've changed it so that now, if you attempt to subscribe to a subgroup via email, and are not registered at all with Groups.io, you immediately get the 'cannot join' message, whereas before you would first go through the confirmation process.

Thanks,
Mark 

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