Date   

moderated Re: Concern over messages sent to non-group member subscribing to subgroup, not quite a #bug #suggestion

Jeremy H
 

On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 05:03 pm, J_Catlady wrote:
I think Jeremy is saying that the main group is restricted, but the subgroup is unrestricted *with respect to main group members*. I think he's saying that you should have a clearer message ("you cannot join this subgroup since you're not a member of the main group"), not that you should subscribe anyone automatically to the restricted main group. I could be misunderstanding.
--
J
Correct. That's exactly what I mean. I do not want anyone automatically subscribed to the restricted main group, only those who get approved.

It maybe that that my process - setting main group to restricted, and sub group to unrestricted - is not (actually or conceptually) the right way of achieving what I want (subgroup unrestricted *with respect to main group members*), in which case, please advise.

More generally - even for an unrestricted group - I'm not sure how much I agree with just auto-subscribing to the main group people who just join a sub-group. I think I would like to be able to set it as a subgroup option, allowing for individual approval where appropriate (so maybe just one approval for both sub- and main groups, or separate ones).

Jeremy
   


moderated Re: allow member messages with none active #suggestion

 

J,

Boo for sending out links.
I feel the same way, unless the group's message is really lengthy and would be better split into multiple major sections. I just offered that as a way to avoid maintaining duplicate copies of the text.

And another boo for sending out monthly messages as 'events' with
start and stop times. Lol.
That's why I made it an all-day event: no start and stop times. I agree those would seem a little odd. But the date and other headings are a style price I'm willing to pay for the automation of not having to send it myself. As is the need to maintain its content as a separate document. YMOV (Your Mileage Obviously Varies).

Shal


moderated Re: allow member messages with none active #suggestion

 

Sarah,

I would rather have the monthly rules sent out to the list in the
body of the email, and not as a link to the calendar event which I
set up. I already joined the forum managers group by the way, so
we'll see how that goes.
No need to wait, here's an example:
https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum/message/2118

There are some tell-tales that show that it came from a calendar event but I find the format quite acceptable for a group guidelines type of message.

YMMV of course, depending on how picky you are, but being able to write the Description in HTML gives you quite a bit of control over how the body of the message will look.

Shal


moderated Re: allow member messages with none active #suggestion

 

Agree. Boo for sending out links. I don't care if, as Shal says, it's 'on them.' Nobody reads them and that creates headaches for me. And another boo for sending out monthly messages as 'events' with start and stop times. Lol. I don't consider any of this compatible with claims of superiority over yahoo. Being clearly superior in other areas does not cancel out these defects. They are linearly independent. :)

J

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 15, 2017, at 8:51 PM, Sarah k Alawami <marrie12@...> wrote:

I'm one who likes my computer to do the work for me. I'm not up at midnight to send the message. I used to do this via letter me later, but that service is a  bit yuck. For those who are on lists I own you will know what I mean.

Here's how I would rather have it at least for my groups.  I would rather have the monthly rules sent out to the list in the body of the email, and not as a link to the calendar event which I set up. I already joined the forum managers group  by the way, so we'll see how  that goes.

Thanks so much yall.

On Aug 15, 2017, at 6:43 PM, J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

Using the calendar to send monthly (or whatever) files and messages is still a clumsy workaround IMO, because the calendar refers to everything as an "event." I don't use it and just send the message out by hand once a month.
--
J
 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu



--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: allow member messages with none active #suggestion

 

Hi,

One way to do it is setting up a recurring event on calendar. I “send” policy letters on the first Monday of every month. The description field for the event can include the body of the email members should read.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: main@beta.groups.io [mailto:main@beta.groups.io] On Behalf Of Sarah k Alawami
Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2017 8:52 PM
To: main@beta.groups.io
Subject: Re: [beta] allow member messages with none active #suggestion

 

I'm one who likes my computer to do the work for me. I'm not up at midnight to send the message. I used to do this via letter me later, but that service is a  bit yuck. For those who are on lists I own you will know what I mean.

 

Here's how I would rather have it at least for my groups.  I would rather have the monthly rules sent out to the list in the body of the email, and not as a link to the calendar event which I set up. I already joined the forum managers group  by the way, so we'll see how  that goes.

 

Thanks so much yall.

 

On Aug 15, 2017, at 6:43 PM, J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

 

Using the calendar to send monthly (or whatever) files and messages is still a clumsy workaround IMO, because the calendar refers to everything as an "event." I don't use it and just send the message out by hand once a month.
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu

 


moderated Re: allow member messages with none active #suggestion

Sarah k Alawami
 

I'm one who likes my computer to do the work for me. I'm not up at midnight to send the message. I used to do this via letter me later, but that service is a  bit yuck. For those who are on lists I own you will know what I mean.

Here's how I would rather have it at least for my groups.  I would rather have the monthly rules sent out to the list in the body of the email, and not as a link to the calendar event which I set up. I already joined the forum managers group  by the way, so we'll see how  that goes.

Thanks so much yall.

On Aug 15, 2017, at 6:43 PM, J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

Using the calendar to send monthly (or whatever) files and messages is still a clumsy workaround IMO, because the calendar refers to everything as an "event." I don't use it and just send the message out by hand once a month.
--
J
 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu



moderated Re: allow member messages with none active #suggestion

 

J,

This is (a) too much maintenance of the same text ...
So put the text in one place, such as (2), and link to it from (1) and (3). These messages are (or can be) in HyperText Markup Language after all, and links are what makes it "Hyper".

I know the objection is that people never click on links. But if you've given the link a proper introduction that's really on them.

and (b) still does not really make the guidelines easily available ...
That I agree with, cf. our other topic.
https://beta.groups.io/g/main/topic/5822219

Shal


moderated Re: A page for group guidelines

 

On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 07:38 pm, Joseph Lee wrote:
One good use case is posting a public version of the welcome letter
I don't know about use case, but the idea is that a group could the tab for whatever they want to include.  
 
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: A page for group guidelines

 

On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 07:08 pm, Shal Farley wrote:
Which also ought to be a separate topic (
Agree, COC is a separate topic. Its existence still needs to be debated or just decided. Group guidlines already exist for many groups and there is a problem getting them through to people. In the past two days alone I've had two members of my small (110-member) group email or post that they're not sure of the guidelines so they emailed me privately. Whether or not they get sent out monthly by email, they need to be made more easily accessible and obvious to group members. Whether or not there's an additional groups.io COC is a separate issue. And I'll reiterate that making group guidelines accessible seems relevant to the legal issue that came up several months ago, with the new language actually referencing group guidelines (or rules, I don't remember what the word was). It would be legitimate for someone to join a group mid-month, or a day after the monthly sending of the guidelines (in a group that sends them out monthly), having contractually agreed, via the groups.io legalese, to obey them, and yet not be able to find them.

--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: A page for group guidelines

 

Hi,
I second the motion. One good use case is posting a public version of the welcome letter people get when subscribing that outlines group rules, hashtag descriptions and what not. Thanks.
Cheers,
Joseph

-----Original Message-----
From: main@beta.groups.io [mailto:main@beta.groups.io] On Behalf Of Shal Farley
Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2017 7:08 PM
To: main@beta.groups.io
Subject: [beta] A page for group guidelines

In message #14432[1] Mark wrote:

> I thought I had proposed something like this[2] awhile ago, as part > of the Code of Conduct discussion.

I concur with J, I think having a designated place to find a group's guidelines (and/or code of conduct) is a fine idea; separate from any arguments about what ought be said in such a document, or in a site-wide document. And I think "Guidelines" is a fine name for it.

One more slot (for those groups that use it) among the left-side navigation buttons seems like a good choice. Second place (right under
"Home") is IMO is a suitably prominent place for it.

> I still think a code of conduct is a good idea, but due to the > general resistance here, I've not done anything about it.

I'll pass on re-opening that discussion. Which also ought to be a separate topic (IMO).

Shal

1: https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/14432
2: https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/14420


moderated A page for group guidelines

 

In message #14432[1] Mark wrote:

I thought I had proposed something like this[2] awhile ago, as part
of the Code of Conduct discussion.
I concur with J, I think having a designated place to find a group's guidelines (and/or code of conduct) is a fine idea; separate from any arguments about what ought be said in such a document, or in a site-wide document. And I think "Guidelines" is a fine name for it.

One more slot (for those groups that use it) among the left-side navigation buttons seems like a good choice. Second place (right under "Home") is IMO is a suitably prominent place for it.

I still think a code of conduct is a good idea, but due to the
general resistance here, I've not done anything about it.
I'll pass on re-opening that discussion. Which also ought to be a separate topic (IMO).

Shal

1: https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/14432
2: https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/14420


moderated Re: allow member messages with none active #suggestion

 

Using the calendar to send monthly (or whatever) files and messages is still a clumsy workaround IMO, because the calendar refers to everything as an "event." I don't use it and just send the message out by hand once a month.
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: allow member messages with none active #suggestion

 

Sarah,

I set up a calendar entry but I don't know if this will in fact do
what I want, or what the poster wants.
That's exactly how I've set up a monthly reminder for one of my groups. It is an all-day repeating event that repeats every 1 months on the same day of the month.

I set it up with a reminder to go out 1 minute before the event, but that was before the "Send Notice To Group When Event Happens" checkbox existed. I think that serves the same purpose and is clearer.

I'm new here by the way so bare with me as I learn the interface.
You might want to join one or both of the user-to-user help groups:
https://groups.io/g/Group_Help
https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum

Answering questions like this is our mission there.

Shal


moderated Re: allow member messages with none active #suggestion

 

Having a monthly message go out is possible via the calendar already. I'm still talking about having the message be PERSISTENT on the group's home page somewhere obvious. Some groups have worked around this lack by making the guidelines a sticky message. My group (1) sends the guidelines out once a month (not via the calendar because I don't like the way it works for messages and I don't like sending a file link), (2) makes them a sticky message, and (3) includes them in our welcome message. This is (a) too much maintenance of the same text and (b) still does not really make the guidelines easily available unless someone happens to look through the stickies.
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: allow member messages with none active #suggestion

Sarah k Alawami
 

Hello, actually I asked about this  as well via groups.io twitter. What I would like to have happen is this.

1. First of the month hits
2. Message gets sent out to   the list listing the rules as a reminder.
3. Repeat this every first of the month.

I set up a calendar entry but I don't know if this will in fact do what I want, or what the poster wants.

I'm new here by the way so bare with me as I learn the interface.

Blessings and happy Tuesday


On Aug 15, 2017, at 5:00 PM, J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 04:55 pm, Mark Fletcher wrote:
I thought I had proposed something like this awhile ago, as part of the Code of Conduct discussion
I remember the COC discussion but nothing about a separate tab for group guidelines. The tab would be only for the specific group guidelines. I think I brought this up around the time you mentioned that the legalese now included reference to group guidelines that people were agreeing to adhere to for each group. I thought then and continue to think now that group guidelines should be easily accessible at all times, not just as a one-shot welcome message or monthly reminder - *especially* because of the new legalese. But I don't remember getting any response to that aspect. This would have nothing to do with a groups.io TOC. It would be just for the individual group guidelines and the tab could be optional or empty.
 
--
J
 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu



moderated Re: Concern over messages sent to non-group member subscribing to subgroup, not quite a #bug #suggestion

 

I think Jeremy is saying that the main group is restricted, but the subgroup is unrestricted *with respect to main group members*. I think he's saying that you should have a clearer message ("you cannot join this subgroup since you're not a member of the main group"), not that you should subscribe anyone automatically to the restricted main group. I could be misunderstanding.
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: allow member messages with none active #suggestion

 

On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 04:55 pm, Mark Fletcher wrote:
I thought I had proposed something like this awhile ago, as part of the Code of Conduct discussion
I remember the COC discussion but nothing about a separate tab for group guidelines. The tab would be only for the specific group guidelines. I think I brought this up around the time you mentioned that the legalese now included reference to group guidelines that people were agreeing to adhere to for each group. I thought then and continue to think now that group guidelines should be easily accessible at all times, not just as a one-shot welcome message or monthly reminder - *especially* because of the new legalese. But I don't remember getting any response to that aspect. This would have nothing to do with a groups.io TOC. It would be just for the individual group guidelines and the tab could be optional or empty.
 
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: allow member messages with none active #suggestion

 

On Thu, Aug 10, 2017 at 7:43 AM, J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

Which is why I suggested, long ago, that a separate tab to be added for "group guidelines." So far, nobody has taken me up on it. ;) At this point, various groups handle this lack in various ways: making the guidelines a sticky message, making them into a file (which is hard to notice unless someone is specifically pointed to it), etc. I think this particular message should stand out on its own and have a dedicated space in every group.

I thought I had proposed something like this awhile ago, as part of the Code of Conduct discussion. I still think a code of conduct is a good idea, but due to the general resistance here, I've not done anything about it.


Mark 


moderated Re: Concern over messages sent to non-group member subscribing to subgroup, not quite a #bug #suggestion

 

Hi Jeremy,

On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 4:24 AM, Jeremy Harrison via Groups.Io <jeremygharrison@...> wrote:

My desire is to have a restricted main group, with a sub group which any main group member may join (without further approval). Trying things out, set up main group as restricted, with sub group unrestricted (I assume this is the way to achieve this): and got main group member to just join sub-group - this happened, no problems, so far so good. Then tried subscribing as a non-member to subgroup (by e-mail to Subgroup+subscribe@...), got a 'Confirm Your Groups.io Subscription', to which replied, following which received (a) a 'Welcome to Groups.io' message and (b) a 'Message not delivered' email with '500 Error: Can't subscribe to a sub group without being a member of the parent group'. While all this perfectly understandable, I do feel this sequence of messages is a bit sub-optimal: what I would prefer to have seen would been just a 'Sorry, you can't subscribe to a sub group without being a member of the parent group' type message.


This is a known issue. Ideally, we'd automatically subscribe you to the main group at that time as well, but I haven't had a chance to go through the code.


Thanks,
Mark


moderated Concern over messages sent to non-group member subscribing to subgroup, not quite a #bug #suggestion

Jeremy H
 

Not exactly a bug...

My desire is to have a restricted main group, with a sub group which any main group member may join (without further approval). Trying things out, set up main group as restricted, with sub group unrestricted (I assume this is the way to achieve this): and got main group member to just join sub-group - this happened, no problems, so far so good. Then tried subscribing as a non-member to subgroup (by e-mail to Subgroup+subscribe@...), got a 'Confirm Your Groups.io Subscription', to which replied, following which received (a) a 'Welcome to Groups.io' message and (b) a 'Message not delivered' email with '500 Error: Can't subscribe to a sub group without being a member of the parent group'. While all this perfectly understandable, I do feel this sequence of messages is a bit sub-optimal: what I would prefer to have seen would been just a 'Sorry, you can't subscribe to a sub group without being a member of the parent group' type message.

Jeremy 

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