Date   

moderated Concern over messages sent to non-group member subscribing to subgroup, not quite a #bug #suggestion

Jeremy H
 

Not exactly a bug...

My desire is to have a restricted main group, with a sub group which any main group member may join (without further approval). Trying things out, set up main group as restricted, with sub group unrestricted (I assume this is the way to achieve this): and got main group member to just join sub-group - this happened, no problems, so far so good. Then tried subscribing as a non-member to subgroup (by e-mail to Subgroup+subscribe@...), got a 'Confirm Your Groups.io Subscription', to which replied, following which received (a) a 'Welcome to Groups.io' message and (b) a 'Message not delivered' email with '500 Error: Can't subscribe to a sub group without being a member of the parent group'. While all this perfectly understandable, I do feel this sequence of messages is a bit sub-optimal: what I would prefer to have seen would been just a 'Sorry, you can't subscribe to a sub group without being a member of the parent group' type message.

Jeremy 


moderated Re: Two stage transfer #suggestion

 

Mark,

I've just changed that so that no messages will go out to members
until everything has been transferred.
Yay! That works for me.

In addition, if you ask for it when you give me the go ahead to
transfer, I will hold off on sending those member messages
completely.
I don't think I need that, but it may help some of the others who've asked about it.

Shal


moderated Re: Two stage transfer #suggestion

 

Hi Shal,

The way the transfer process works is that I first grab all the data from the Yahoo group (members, messages, photos, files, etc). Depending on how many photos, files or messages there are, this can take up to 8 hours or so (like if there are 500k messages). Once that process is complete, I import everything into Groups.io. Because I want to match up members with their messages/photos/files, I import the members first, then photos, files, databases and messages last. Depending on the number of messages, this also can take a few hours.

Previously, I would send a transfer message (and welcome message if there is one) to each member at the time they were added (which could be a few hours before the transfer is completed). I've just changed that so that no messages will go out to members until everything has been transferred. 

In addition, if you ask for it when you give me the go ahead to transfer, I will hold off on sending those member messages completely. Once you get the message saying the transfer has been completed, you can examine everything and then give me the go ahead to send the messages. Note that in this case, edits you make to the member list would not have any affect on who then got the transfer emails (I store the list of emails separately from the main database).

Hope this helps.
Mark

On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 11:30 AM, Shal Farley <shals2nd@...> wrote:
Mark,

Bump.

As I get ready to transfer a couple of groups I'd like to see the process go smoothly.

If Yahoo's rate limiting means that there is a substantial delay from the copying of the members to the completion of the copying of the content, then I think it would be best to defer welcoming the members until the content is fully in place. That will avoid having old and new messages get mixed together, and in extreme cases avoid having members attempt to re-upload content they perceive as missing.

So even if the two steps aren't separated such that the Yahoo Group admins can defer step 2 I'd like to know that the process is organized to avoid these timing issues.

Shal



moderated Re: Site updates #changelog

James Milligan
 

If anyone is interested in integrating with the API using Java, I've got an open source project going over on GitHub: https://github.com/lake54/groupsio-api-java

Feel free to use as you see fit, PRs and feature requests are definitely welcome!


moderated Site updates #changelog

 

Changes to the site this week:

  • INTERNAL: Work on the API.
  • CHANGE: For some reason, occasionally, the link that people click on as part of the 'email a login link' function contains a trailing "<br". We now catch that.
  • NEW: Created new api@beta.groups.io subgroup for discussion about the API.
  • CHANGE: All existing groups that didn't have a welcome message, now have one (no change in behavior, just internal changes).
  • CHANGE: Remove the restriction where there has to be an active member notice. Now you can unset an active member notice.
  • CHANGE: Generate a welcome member notice on group and subgroup creation.

Have a good weekend everybody.

Mark


moderated Re: ability to "bookmark" posts #suggestion

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

Consider this a "Seconded!"  (or fourthed, based on original & likes)
--
Brian  - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1703, Build 15063  (dot level on request - it changes too often to keep in signature)
I worry a lot. . . I worry that no matter how cynical you become it's never enough to keep up.
    ~ Trudy, in Jane Wagner's 
            Search for Signs of Intelligent Life in the Universe


moderated Re: Two stage transfer #suggestion

 

Mark,

Bump.

As I get ready to transfer a couple of groups I'd like to see the process go smoothly.

If Yahoo's rate limiting means that there is a substantial delay from the copying of the members to the completion of the copying of the content, then I think it would be best to defer welcoming the members until the content is fully in place. That will avoid having old and new messages get mixed together, and in extreme cases avoid having members attempt to re-upload content they perceive as missing.

So even if the two steps aren't separated such that the Yahoo Group admins can defer step 2 I'd like to know that the process is organized to avoid these timing issues.

Shal


moderated Re: allow member messages with none active #suggestion

 

typo, interested in the content (not 'context')

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 10, 2017, at 11:34 AM, J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@gmail.com> wrote:

People typically don't click on and read links when sent them unless they're interested in the context to t at the moment they get the link. It's why I think the guidelines should be easily accessible at all times. People often look for, request, or wonder about clarification of the guidelines just before they are about to send a message. If they were easily accessible *at all times* in a dedicated side panel I think they would be paid more attention to (and I would get less messages of the form 'I don't know if it's ok to mention vet names here but Dr Smith is great' bla bla and then I have to deal with the situation).

J

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 10, 2017, at 10:43 AM, Duane <txpigeon@gmail.com> wrote:

Our "Group Rules & Guidelines" are a Wiki page. The link is sent in the Welcome message, as well as a reminder sent the first of each month. I'd guess only about 30% of people initially read them. Very few, if any, check to see if there are updates or changes from the previous month. I tried sending all the info in the Welcome message, but the read rate was about the same. Some folks just don't want to be bothered with "details".

Duane



--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: allow member messages with none active #suggestion

 

People typically don't click on and read links when sent them unless they're interested in the context to t at the moment they get the link. It's why I think the guidelines should be easily accessible at all times. People often look for, request, or wonder about clarification of the guidelines just before they are about to send a message. If they were easily accessible *at all times* in a dedicated side panel I think they would be paid more attention to (and I would get less messages of the form 'I don't know if it's ok to mention vet names here but Dr Smith is great' bla bla and then I have to deal with the situation).

J

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 10, 2017, at 10:43 AM, Duane <txpigeon@gmail.com> wrote:

Our "Group Rules & Guidelines" are a Wiki page. The link is sent in the Welcome message, as well as a reminder sent the first of each month. I'd guess only about 30% of people initially read them. Very few, if any, check to see if there are updates or changes from the previous month. I tried sending all the info in the Welcome message, but the read rate was about the same. Some folks just don't want to be bothered with "details".

Duane


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: allow member messages with none active #suggestion

Duane
 

Our "Group Rules & Guidelines" are a Wiki page. The link is sent in the Welcome message, as well as a reminder sent the first of each month. I'd guess only about 30% of people initially read them. Very few, if any, check to see if there are updates or changes from the previous month. I tried sending all the info in the Welcome message, but the read rate was about the same. Some folks just don't want to be bothered with "details".

Duane


moderated Re: allow member messages with none active #suggestion

 

On Thu, Aug 10, 2017 at 07:20 am, AQ wrote:
I certainly do want those notices to be accessible.
But I don't think you'd want "You have been banned from this group for the following reason: [bla bla]"-type messages to be a file that can be accessed and read by all group members.

I sometimes ask members to go back and read the Welcome Message and Group Rules,

Which is why I suggested, long ago, that a separate tab to be added for "group guidelines." So far, nobody has taken me up on it. ;) At this point, various groups handle this lack in various ways: making the guidelines a sticky message, making them into a file (which is hard to notice unless someone is specifically pointed to it), etc. I think this particular message should stand out on its own and have a dedicated space in every group.
 
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: allow member messages with none active #suggestion

AQ <aq2sw3@...>
 

On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 04:51 pm, J_Catlady wrote:
I would not want all of the member notices to be accessible by members

I certainly do want those notices to be accessible. I sometimes ask members to go back and
read the Welcome Message and Group Rules, which are member notices they once received
presumably but apparently have forgotten or maybe never read in the first place.


moderated Re: allow member messages with none active #suggestion

 

Shal,

In that case we're suggesting the same thing. I don't care very much how it's presented. 

My belated concern with my own suggestion (namely, using group files for the message) is that currently, files can't be marked individually as readable by mods only. I would not want all of the member notices to be accessible by members, but if group files were used, they would be. So using the notices feature would be better in that regard.
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: allow member messages with none active #suggestion

 

J,

I think the solution might be to turn the whole thing on it's head
and implement what virtually everyone clamors for, and laments it's
absence, as soon as they arrive from yahoo: namely, 'scheduling'
files to go out upon certain actions.
I think scheduled files the wrong UI metaphore, for anyone not steeped in how Y!Groups did it. Files is not the natural place to look for a group setting like that.

That way, people like me, who want a single welcome message rather
than separate ones, could have it in a file and specify that it goes
out upon direct add and joining or being approved for membership.
That check-box flexibility is what I suggested, but within the existing Settings UI structure. Almost as simple as replacing the droplist notice type selector with a list of checkboxes, and it achieves your goal of maintaining a single document.

You could have more than one file go out to new members (or upon
whatever occasion). Having been allowed only one has been a real
nuisaance. For example, I've been forced to include the group
guidelines within the welcome message, which I'd rather not do.
Agreed.

I was assuming that with the change to using checkboxes that it would be possible to have more than one message "Active" for any given event. It would be difficult/confusing for it to be otherwise.

Shal


moderated Re: allow member messages with none active #suggestion

 

On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 02:42 pm, Mark Fletcher wrote:
I did not change the behavior of the welcome message and direct adds/invites.
Great. Thanks!
 
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated New API subgroup

 

Hi All,

I've created a new subgroup, api@beta.groups.io, for discussions about the API. The API docs can be found here: https://groups.io/static/api. Note that it is a work in progress and much will change before it's finalized. Right now I'm mainly interested in initial feedback about how it looks, whether the docs are understandable, etc.

There are a couple of reasons I'm working on an API. Mainly, it's needed for the mobile app. But I've also gotten a few requests from people wanting to build things on top of Groups.io, and/or do some custom integrations.

Also fyi, I haven't decided what kind of access there will be to the API. I'm leaning towards it being a premium group feature.

Thanks,
Mark


moderated Re: allow member messages with none active #suggestion

 

On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 2:40 PM, J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

Does this mean the welcome message no longer goes out to direct adds and invites?

No. I did not change the behavior of the welcome message and direct adds/invites. I was only referring to the customized message that is sent with the invite or with the direct add.

Mark


moderated Re: allow member messages with none active #suggestion

 

ps Thanks, though, for fixing the required 'active' thing.

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 8, 2017, at 2:40 PM, J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

Mark?

Does this mean the welcome message no longer goes out to direct adds and invites? If so I'm going to have to delete my group's welcome message, create a no-type message with the same content, and send it out by hand to every new member, whether they found us and joined or were invited or added. I'm unwilling to maintain more than one (let alone THREE) duplicate welcome messages for these cases and i consider this situation, if I'm understanding it correctly, ultimately unacceptable. I understand there's no time for a redesign now but I'd urge you strongly not to eliminate the welcome message going out to invites and direct adds. Perhaps you could take an informal poll on this because I'd be very surprised if I'm alone. I also think some group owners are going to be in for a nasty surprise when they realize their welcome message has not been going out to adds or invites ( which will take them awhile to figure out, thus making the situation even worse, especially if the welcome message is where they include their group guidelines and the new members start inadvertently violating them).

J

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 8, 2017, at 2:31 PM, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:

Hi All,

I've made the following changes:

- I've removed the requirement that there must be an active member notice. So you can now 'unset' any active member notice.
- For groups that did not have a welcome member notice, I've generated a default one. This is what was happening behind the scenes previously, so this will result in no change in perceived behavior.
- When a group or subgroup is created, we now automatically create the default welcome notice.
- For an action without an active member notice, nothing is sent out (so if I have 5 welcome notices and none are active, no welcome notice goes out. Same if I have 0 welcome notices).
- For direct adds and invites, if there is an active notice, that is shown in the editable text area (and will be updated appropriately). If there is no active notice, the text area will be blank, and a new, active notice will be created upon the add or invite.

I'm happy to revisit the whole member notice system, but I'm in the middle of several things right now, so I would ask that we push that off for awhile (API/Mobile app and the new search being the two big things along with a bunch of smaller things).

Thanks,
Mark

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: allow member messages with none active #suggestion

 

Mark?

Does this mean the welcome message no longer goes out to direct adds and invites? If so I'm going to have to delete my group's welcome message, create a no-type message with the same content, and send it out by hand to every new member, whether they found us and joined or were invited or added. I'm unwilling to maintain more than one (let alone THREE) duplicate welcome messages for these cases and i consider this situation, if I'm understanding it correctly, ultimately unacceptable. I understand there's no time for a redesign now but I'd urge you strongly not to eliminate the welcome message going out to invites and direct adds. Perhaps you could take an informal poll on this because I'd be very surprised if I'm alone. I also think some group owners are going to be in for a nasty surprise when they realize their welcome message has not been going out to adds or invites ( which will take them awhile to figure out, thus making the situation even worse, especially if the welcome message is where they include their group guidelines and the new members start inadvertently violating them).

J

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 8, 2017, at 2:31 PM, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:

Hi All,

I've made the following changes:

- I've removed the requirement that there must be an active member notice. So you can now 'unset' any active member notice.
- For groups that did not have a welcome member notice, I've generated a default one. This is what was happening behind the scenes previously, so this will result in no change in perceived behavior.
- When a group or subgroup is created, we now automatically create the default welcome notice.
- For an action without an active member notice, nothing is sent out (so if I have 5 welcome notices and none are active, no welcome notice goes out. Same if I have 0 welcome notices).
- For direct adds and invites, if there is an active notice, that is shown in the editable text area (and will be updated appropriately). If there is no active notice, the text area will be blank, and a new, active notice will be created upon the add or invite.

I'm happy to revisit the whole member notice system, but I'm in the middle of several things right now, so I would ask that we push that off for awhile (API/Mobile app and the new search being the two big things along with a bunch of smaller things).

Thanks,
Mark

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: allow member messages with none active #suggestion

 

Hi All,

I've made the following changes:

- I've removed the requirement that there must be an active member notice. So you can now 'unset' any active member notice.
- For groups that did not have a welcome member notice, I've generated a default one. This is what was happening behind the scenes previously, so this will result in no change in perceived behavior.
- When a group or subgroup is created, we now automatically create the default welcome notice.
- For an action without an active member notice, nothing is sent out (so if I have 5 welcome notices and none are active, no welcome notice goes out. Same if I have 0 welcome notices).
- For direct adds and invites, if there is an active notice, that is shown in the editable text area (and will be updated appropriately). If there is no active notice, the text area will be blank, and a new, active notice will be created upon the add or invite.

I'm happy to revisit the whole member notice system, but I'm in the middle of several things right now, so I would ask that we push that off for awhile (API/Mobile app and the new search being the two big things along with a bunch of smaller things).

Thanks,
Mark

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