Date   

moderated Reporting editor problems

 

Hi All,

There have been a couple of editor problems reported that I cannot reproduce. Specifically, in the editor wiki page, I cannot reproduce the blockquote quirk. I also have not been able to reproduce other problems editing existing pending messages. Nor have I been able to reproduce any problems splitting lines of text. If you are seeing problems, please send an email to support with as much detail as possible (no detail too small! no price too low!) :

- What browser/OS are you using?
- If a pending message, which pending message are you editing? If you've already approved the pending message, point me to it in the archives.
- What are the EXACT steps to take to reproduce the problem? Pretend I'm an idiot (it's not that difficult!). Tell me exactly what to type and where to position the cursor. An example of the confusion I'm suffering when trying to reproduce things: on the wiki page talking about the blockquote quirk, it's not clear to me if the Blockquote button on the toolbar is ever pressed, or if you're just talking about quoting the existing message, using either the Quote Whole Message button or by highlighting part of the existing message before hitting the reply button. 

I think I've fixed the slowness issue (bad javascript on my part), as well as the HTML flashing issue.

Thanks,
Mark


moderated Re: New editor - slow typing?

 

Mark,
What was it? Just curious...
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: New editor - slow typing?

 

Hi Everett,

On Wed, Jun 14, 2017 at 6:16 AM, Everett Kaser <everett@...> wrote:

Bad news.  This morning the gentleman from Germany reports:
=================================================================
Sorry for the delay - time zone differences...
I tried again and the slowdown is still there, maybe a tiny little bit less pronounced, but still very noticeable and not acceptable.
I did another experiment: after experiencing the slowdown I selected the whole text and deleted it and started to type fresh text into the edit field.
Even then, with just a few characters the slowdown prevailed. So it must be something different.
This is on my business computer, which is often updated Windows and Internet Explorer updates.

Ok, I think I fixed the slow down for real this time. Fingers crossed!

Thanks,
Mark 


Re: Change in unsubscribe links in single emails

 

I really don't like the idea of requiring a login to unsubscribe. Someone not familiar with mailing lists who was manually added by the owner to a premium group could get confused.

Here's an alternative that might solve the problem. When someone clicks Unsubscribe, they go to a page that asks:

Are You whoever @ wherever.com ?

Button 1: YES, Unsubscribe me from Groupname!

Button 2: NO, I am someone else.

If they click NO, they go to a login screen, and for bonus points, if that user is in the group, ask again if that user wants to unsubscribe.

That won't stop someone malicious, but malicious unsubscribes probably don't happen as often as accidental ones.

JohnF


Change in unsubscribe links in single emails

 

Hi All,

For a long time now, the unsubscribe links in message footers have not required the person to log into their account before unsubscribing (they do ask to confirm first). That means that if someone else were to get one of these links, they could unsubscribe the person. We do send out an easy resubscribe link when someone unsubscribes through this process, so it's not a huge deal, but it would be a nuisance. 

When someone replies to a message, we scrub these links from any quoted parts of messages.

I knew there was a 'security hole' in the case of someone forwarding a group message to someone else; the unsubscribe link would be included in the forward, and the receiver could then click the link and unsubscribe the sender. This felt OK to me; making it as easy as possible to unsubscribe is a very good thing.

But what just occurred to me is that for groups that are not set to Reply To Group, this 'security hole' is the default case. We don't see the replies and therefore cannot scrub these links from messages. That's not good. So, I've changed the footers for single messages sent to groups that are not Reply To Group; the unsubscribe links in these messages do require login.

Please let me know if you have any questions.

Thanks,
Mark


moderated Re: Site slowdown

 

It looks like Linode has fixed the issue and things are back to normal.

Thanks,

Mark


moderated Site slowdown

 

Hi All,

It appears that our hosting provider, Linode, started having network issues around 12:20pm pacific time. This is leading to sporadic slowness with the Groups.io website. I will update this topic when it is resolved.

Thanks,
Mark


moderated Re: New editor - slow typing?

 

On Tue, Jun 13, 2017 at 09:54 am, Mark Fletcher wrote:
I've removed the word count. Please let me know if this fixes the slowness
issue.
Bad news. This morning the gentleman from Germany reports:
=================================================================
Sorry for the delay - time zone differences...
I tried again and the slowdown is still there, maybe a tiny little bit less pronounced, but still very noticeable and not acceptable.
I did another experiment: after experiencing the slowdown I selected the whole text and deleted it and started to type fresh text into the edit field.
Even then, with just a few characters the slowdown prevailed. So it must be something different.
This is on my business computer, which is often updated Windows and Internet Explorer updates.

The Info field says
Internet Explorer 11.0.9600.18665
Update version 11.042 (KB4018271)

I also tried the test editor at https://www.tinymce.com/ ( https://www.tinymce.com/ ) and had no problems to type very long texts.
If this is a specific problem on my system I can live with using Chrome instead.

Copied and pasted this note as typing response is now down to about 1 char/second.
================================================================

So, it appears (to me) to be something else, and that something else is triggered by the browser's code (since Chrome works fine) AND (maybe) the 'distance' (in terms of machine hops) between his machine and the Groups.io server.

Everett


moderated Re: New editor - slow typing?

 

Yes,behavior is different in pending. That's where I see the fleeting HTML.

I had a line break problem with this editor in simply composing a reply (as far as I recall this happens not only in pending), namely: to get a simple line break, I have to hit 'return' twice. I may be able to narrow down the circumstances. I'm using safari. Haven't yet tried in firefox.

J

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 13, 2017, at 11:36 PM, Shal Farley <shals2nd@gmail.com> wrote:

Jennifer,

A further test suggests that the editor in Pending behaves somewhat differently than in Reply or New Topic (where I tested before).

2. Likewise, DELETE+CONTROL+RETURN ... does accomplish the intended
purpose in the new editor.
In Pending I have the same result. But interestingly I also get that same result with a plain Enter (no shift or control). Is that the same for you?

1. I confirmed that using DELETE+SHIFT+RETURN ... does NOT do
anything in the new editor.
In my test the Delete had the expected effect (joining the two paragraphs) but Shift+Enter broke the line back into two paragraphs, rather than inserting just a line break.

I am using Firefox, Windows 10 and Office 365 v. 174 on a Lenovo
Thinkpad Ultrabook.
I'm also using Firefox, on both WinXP and Win10 desktops.

As to the difference between the behavior of this editor versus a word processor such as Word, I think it is normal in an email editor for Enter to insert a line break rather than a paragraph break. I have never used Outlook, but that is my experience with Gmail, Yahoo Mail, Thunderbird, Eudora, and others.

That being the case, using Shift to modify the behavior is consistent with convention.

Shal


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: New editor - slow typing?

 

Jennifer,

A further test suggests that the editor in Pending behaves somewhat differently than in Reply or New Topic (where I tested before).

2. Likewise, DELETE+CONTROL+RETURN ... does accomplish the intended
purpose in the new editor.
In Pending I have the same result. But interestingly I also get that same result with a plain Enter (no shift or control). Is that the same for you?

1. I confirmed that using DELETE+SHIFT+RETURN ... does NOT do
anything in the new editor.
In my test the Delete had the expected effect (joining the two paragraphs) but Shift+Enter broke the line back into two paragraphs, rather than inserting just a line break.

I am using Firefox, Windows 10 and Office 365 v. 174 on a Lenovo
Thinkpad Ultrabook.
I'm also using Firefox, on both WinXP and Win10 desktops.

As to the difference between the behavior of this editor versus a word processor such as Word, I think it is normal in an email editor for Enter to insert a line break rather than a paragraph break. I have never used Outlook, but that is my experience with Gmail, Yahoo Mail, Thunderbird, Eudora, and others.

That being the case, using Shift to modify the behavior is consistent with convention.

Shal


moderated Re: New editor - slow typing?

 

On Tue, Jun 13, 2017 at 09:22 pm, J_Catlady wrote:
I didn't know Mark removed the word count.

Ok, just saw that. I'd missed it in the thread.  
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Need examples of bad search results

 

A search on a group activity log for any email address brings up the entire activity log.
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: New editor - slow typing?

Jennifer Christian
 

Shal -

Yes, I do my editing on pending messages.

I too did some simple tests today. 
  1. I confirmed that using DELETE+SHIFT+RETURN does work to remove a paragraph return and replace it with a line wrap in word and Outlook but does NOT do anything in the new editor. 
  2. Likewise, DELETE+CONTROL+RETURN does nothing in Word and Outlook for me, but does accomplish the intended purpose in the new editor.  I am using Firefox, Windows 10 and Office 365 v. 174 on a Lenovo Thinkpad Ultrabook.


moderated Re: New editor - slow typing?

 

On Tue, Jun 13, 2017 at 08:01 pm, Douglas Swearingen wrote:
I tried again to post after Mark removed the word count.  I did not have the slow down then.

That's good news. I didn't know Mark removed the word count. 
--
J

 

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: New editor - slow typing?

Douglas Swearingen
 

I do not know which resolved the problem.  I tried again to post after Mark removed the word count.  I did not have the slow down then.

As well, I switched from HTML to Plain Text and did not have the problem with the slow down then either.

Doug


On Tuesday, June 13, 2017 8:16 PM, Shal Farley <shals2nd@...> wrote:


Jennifer,

> I reformat the text of spread-out messages so they are tight on the
> page -- for easier reading and reduce scrolling -- as a courtesy to
> my members.

I don't have any reason to believe it would matter, but just for
clarity: you're talking about editing the messages while pending,
correct? (As opposed to messages already posted.)

> Message writers' signature blocks often appear with (invisible)
> paragraph returns and coded extra line spacing between the lines of
> text. Since I don't "do" html, I have to figure out how to snug up
> the lines.

It would be very handy if there were a display option to show the HTML
element boundaries, and let one put the cursor deliberately inside or
between them. A little like MS Word's Show/Hide ¶ button allows you to
see some invisible elements. I don't think I've ever seen an HTML editor
with a feature like that, until now.

The View menu in the example at ephox's website has a Show Blocks
checkbox which looks a lot like what I'm after. I don't know if that's a
feature Mark can surface for us, but it could be helpful.
https://www.tinymce.com/

> I couldn't make that trick work in the new editor, until by stabbing
> around in frustration I hit upon CTRL+ RETURN -- which works.

Thanks for that. I haven't seen this behavior yet - Return and
Ctrl+Return and Shift+Return all seem to do the same thing in the simple
test cases I've tried - but I'll try to remember it in case I run into
that situation.

Shal






moderated Re: New editor - slow typing?

 

Jennifer,

I reformat the text of spread-out messages so they are tight on the
page -- for easier reading and reduce scrolling -- as a courtesy to
my members.
I don't have any reason to believe it would matter, but just for clarity: you're talking about editing the messages while pending, correct? (As opposed to messages already posted.)

Message writers' signature blocks often appear with (invisible)
paragraph returns and coded extra line spacing between the lines of
text. Since I don't "do" html, I have to figure out how to snug up
the lines.
It would be very handy if there were a display option to show the HTML element boundaries, and let one put the cursor deliberately inside or between them. A little like MS Word's Show/Hide ¶ button allows you to see some invisible elements. I don't think I've ever seen an HTML editor with a feature like that, until now.

The View menu in the example at ephox's website has a Show Blocks checkbox which looks a lot like what I'm after. I don't know if that's a feature Mark can surface for us, but it could be helpful.
https://www.tinymce.com/

I couldn't make that trick work in the new editor, until by stabbing
around in frustration I hit upon CTRL+ RETURN -- which works.
Thanks for that. I haven't seen this behavior yet - Return and Ctrl+Return and Shift+Return all seem to do the same thing in the simple test cases I've tried - but I'll try to remember it in case I run into that situation.

Shal


moderated Re: option to change passwords

Duane
 

On Tue, Jun 13, 2017 at 03:58 pm, Frances wrote:


then click profile.
This is now known as Account. I just updated the Wiki page. There's another section just below it on that may be more apt for this situation:
https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum/wiki/How-to-Set-a-Personal-Password-and-Profile%3B-Changing-Email-Address

Using the log-on link will allow you to get to your Account and you could set a new password there.

Duane


moderated Re: Moderated thread

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

I agree that how notices that a given thread was locked/unlocked, moderated/unmoderated, should be delivered via e-mail in the context of the delivery option that the user has chosen.  But I would think that for digest folks the state change notifications would best be presented as their own thing at the outset to a digest.

I'm sure that someone will now tell me how wrong my presumption is, but based on all of the groups I read here it's not like the volume of locking/unlocking and moderating/unmoderating is huge on any group so these notices at the beginning of a digest should not be extensive.

I also want to make clear that my earlier comments say for e-mail participants because I have to presume that anyone such as myself, who has "no email" subscription to everything, is seeing the icons for locked and moderated presented on the message(s) and topic(s) that fall into either of those categories as they browse the groups that they read.  I would never want e-mail regarding these state changes because they're completely unnecessary for a web-based user.
--
Brian  - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1703, Build 15063.332
I worry a lot. . . I worry that no matter how cynical you become it's never enough to keep up.
    ~ Trudy, in Jane Wagner's 
            Search for Signs of Intelligent Life in the Universe


moderated Re: New editor - slow typing?

Jennifer Christian
 

Another oddity of this new editor is that it uses a unfamiliar (to me) convention to eliminate unwanted coded paragraph returns and create line wraps.  (Hope my terminology is understandable)  As you may recall,  I am a VERY active "value added" moderator.  I reformat the text of spread-out messages so they are tight on the page -- for easier reading and reduce scrolling -- as a courtesy to my members. 

Message writers' signature blocks often appear with (invisible) paragraph returns and coded extra line spacing between the lines of text.  Since I don't "do" html,  I have to figure out how to snug up the lines. 

In Word, in Outlook, AND in the prior editor, I can DELETE a coded paragraph return AND create a line wrap by using the same method in all three.  I click DELETE get rid of the paragraph return and bring the second line up to the end of the first one.  Then, I click SHIFT + RETURN to move the second line down into its proper place without any extra line spacing.  

I couldn't make that trick work in the new editor, until by stabbing around in frustration I hit upon CTRL+ RETURN -- which works.  Unfamiliar conventions are not good, correct?

Jennifer Christian
WFDRoundtable@groups.io


moderated Re: New editor - slow typing?

 

J,

But doesn't that keep Mark out of the loop,
I don't mean that problems shouldn't be reported here, or more affirmatively to support@groups.io ...

or is he checking that wiki?
I don't know if he does, but I think it would also be convenient for him (and for us) to have them gathered in one spot.

I've added (rather short) sections for the typing lag and other problems. Short because I haven't seen them and can't describe them particularly well. Hopefully someone who can, will.

Shal

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