Date   

locked Re: Reply to CGrigsby re Welcome

 

Hmm, that's very strange. When you say that Verizon refuses to send it, do they give you an error message?

I have specifically whitelisted the servers we use to send email with Verizon, and got an acknowledgement email from them 10 days ago saying that we should be whitelisted. But that generally only applies to email that we send to Verizon, not the other way around. 

Please let me know if you find out any additional information.

Thanks,
Mark


On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 2:18 PM, Cacky B <cackyb@...> wrote:
I have been trying to send the message below for two days. Verizon continues to refuse it.  I have cleared the message to which it was a reply (the one sent by the AOL user) in the hope that reducing the number of links in the message will prevent it from being pegged as spam by verizon.  If this goes through, then that tells me it's not the group domain or address, but the links contained within the message that trigger the refusal to send.  If that's the case, then even replies that are sent will need to clear most of the message to which they are replying.

I'm on verizon.net, and have had a large number of group messages put into the spam folder by verizon.  I have carefully checked it every day, marked them as "Not Spam", and also listed the domain as as safe in my own account settings.  Yesterday, when I tried to respond to a message for the first time, verizon refused to send it, marking it as spam.  I followed their instructions for that occurrence, sent the message to "spamdetector.update@verizon.net", explaining what the domain represented and the purpose of the beta group.  Within about 40 minutes I was able to send the message without a problem.

Hopefully, verizon has white listed the domain.

Since writing the above, I have tried to send the message, had it refused, submitted it to the spam detector address for verizon, tried sending again the next morning, had it refused, submitted it again, tried sending again, had it refused again.  Will keep trying, as I hope to get this white listed with verizon, rather than having to go through this hassle.  Obviously this will create a problem for anyone owning a list on the site also..

Cacky

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locked Reply to CGrigsby re Welcome

Cacky B
 

I have been trying to send the message below for two days. Verizon continues to refuse it. I have cleared the message to which it was a reply (the one sent by the AOL user) in the hope that reducing the number of links in the message will prevent it from being pegged as spam by verizon. If this goes through, then that tells me it's not the group domain or address, but the links contained within the message that trigger the refusal to send. If that's the case, then even replies that are sent will need to clear most of the message to which they are replying.

I'm on verizon.net, and have had a large number of group messages put into the spam folder by verizon. I have carefully checked it every day, marked them as "Not Spam", and also listed the domain as as safe in my own account settings. Yesterday, when I tried to respond to a message for the first time, verizon refused to send it, marking it as spam. I followed their instructions for that occurrence, sent the message to "spamdetector.update@verizon.net", explaining what the domain represented and the purpose of the beta group. Within about 40 minutes I was able to send the message without a problem.

Hopefully, verizon has white listed the domain.

Since writing the above, I have tried to send the message, had it refused, submitted it to the spam detector address for verizon, tried sending again the next morning, had it refused, submitted it again, tried sending again, had it refused again. Will keep trying, as I hope to get this white listed with verizon, rather than having to go through this hassle. Obviously this will create a problem for anyone owning a list on the site also.

Cacky

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locked Re: Search of Archives

David P. Dillard
 

I am very glad to see a search tool for the archives of discussion groups on Groups IO. I was able to conduct a successful search by typing in the wanted term and clicking on the enter key on my keyboard. However, on IE on Firefox and on Chrome, the Icon for implementing or processing the search does not work.


Thanks so much for creating an archive search for lists on IO.





Sincerely,
David Dillard
Temple University
(215) 204 - 4584
jwne@temple.edu


locked Re: Subgroups

Cacky B
 

My preference would definitely that only owner/mods with full privilege be able to create sub groups.  As someone else has said, giving this option to a full membership could be very unwieldy.  If there are those who prefer to allow members to create sub groups, then having that as an option when the parent group is set up so that owners could choose what will work for their specific group.

Again, making the options on where the archives are viewable (parent group and sub group or only sub group) seems like a good solution for privacy settings.

Cacky

On 10/21/2014 11:00 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
I took a break from working on the calendar stuff (which can get a little tedious) to work on sub groups, and they're mostly ready. Here are details about how they're implemented. I also have a question for the group. Please let me know if you have any feedback:

- group+owner@groups.io is unchanged from what it is now (ie. it's not a full fledged sub group, because it's just different enough that I thought it wouldn't make sense)
- You must be subscribed to the parent group before you can subscribe to the sub group
- Sub groups have 2 privacy settings: archives visible to the parent group subscribers and archives visible only to the sub group subscribers.
- Sub groups are unlisted/don't appear in the search directory
- Sub groups are listed on the group home page, but only if you're already subscribed to the parent group
- There is no invite function for sub groups, but there is direct add from subscribers to the parent group
- Besides these changes, sub groups have all the functionality of main groups

Question:
- How should permissions work? Should it be that only owners/moderators with the correct permission can create sub groups? Or should it be one of: subscribers to the parent group/moderators/owners? That is, can 'normal' subscribers of the parent group create sub groups?

Thanks,
Mark




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locked Re: Welcome to beta

CGrlgsby <cgrlgsby@...>
 

Hello Mark,
Since you pointed out that I had been the only one who reported this I did a little digging and found that I had received *two* welcome messages from groups.io that day, one at 2:03 PM which went to spam and a second at 2:09 PM which did not. A look at the headers reveals the likely cause:

---- Begin Headers ----
2:03 PM Welcome:

Authentication-Results: mx.aol.com;
	spf=temperror (aol.com: while processing the SPF record for groups.io we encountered a temporary error.) smtp.mailfrom=groups.io;
	dkim=pass (aol.com: email passed verification from the domain groups.io.) header.d=groups.io;
X-AOL-REROUTE: YES
x-aol-sid: 3039ac1afe625436ce051c65
X-AOL-IP: 66.175.222.12
X-AOL-SPF: domain : groups.io SPF : temperror
and

2:09 PM Welcome:

Authentication-Results: mx.aol.com;
	spf=pass (aol.com: the domain groups.io reports 66.175.222.12 as a permitted sender.) smtp.mailfrom=groups.io;
	dkim=pass (aol.com: email passed verification from the domain groups.io.) header.d=groups.io;
x-aol-sid: 3039ac1ade825436cf06258a
X-AOL-IP: 66.175.222.12
X-AOL-SPF: domain : groups.io SPF : pass
---- End Headers ----

I am comfortable assuming this issue likely resolved itself and no further investigation should be required on your part.

Thanks for the speedy reply :-)
CG

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io>
To: beta <beta@groups.io>
Sent: Wed, Oct 22, 2014 6:54 pm
Subject: Re: [beta] Re: Welcome to beta

On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 1:05 PM, CGrlgsby via GROUPS.IO <user+250@groups.io> wrote:
Greetings,
I am not sure if this has been addressed here but as a new subscriber the welcome message copied below which I received from groups..io was sent directly to my AOL webmail spam folder. I do not have any special filters setup on my end so perhaps AOL considered it spam due to the message containing many URL's ? Stranger things have happened, yeah I know it's AOL but their email has always worked predictably more often than not since the early 90s which is more than I can say for Yahoo's products.

Hmm.. I haven't heard of any other reports. We're set up to receive notification if anyone with an aol.com email address marks one of our emails as spam, and we haven't received any of those notifications. Perhaps it's an issue with us sending the email as text/html but it not containing any HTML. I'll look into it.

 
I hope the groups.io effort succeeds, I have managed groups on Y! since the OneList/eGroups days of the late 90s and am very unhappy with the 'new and improved' Y! groups and Y!mail. Your way of public beta testing is the way Y! should have handled their sweeping changes, not having thrust them upon unsuspecting group 'owners' and their members.

Thanks!

Mark 


locked Re: Welcome to beta

 

On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 1:05 PM, CGrlgsby via GROUPS.IO <user+250@groups.io> wrote:
Greetings,
I am not sure if this has been addressed here but as a new subscriber the welcome message copied below which I received from groups.io was sent directly to my AOL webmail spam folder. I do not have any special filters setup on my end so perhaps AOL considered it spam due to the message containing many URL's ? Stranger things have happened, yeah I know it's AOL but their email has always worked predictably more often than not since the early 90s which is more than I can say for Yahoo's products.

Hmm. I haven't heard of any other reports. We're set up to receive notification if anyone with an aol.com email address marks one of our emails as spam, and we haven't received any of those notifications. Perhaps it's an issue with us sending the email as text/html but it not containing any HTML. I'll look into it.

 
I hope the groups.io effort succeeds, I have managed groups on Y! since the OneList/eGroups days of the late 90s and am very unhappy with the 'new and improved' Y! groups and Y!mail. Your way of public beta testing is the way Y! should have handled their sweeping changes, not having thrust them upon unsuspecting group 'owners' and their members.

Thanks!

Mark 


locked Re: Subgroups

 

Thanks for all the feedback. Based on this and other feedback outside the group, sub group creation will only be allowed by owners and moderators who have the permission to do so.

One final question: For moderators, should it be a new permission bit or should it be grouped with the 'Modify Group Settings or Delete Group' permission? It's easy enough to add a new permission, but I always worry that the permissions system is already too complicated, so I'm hesitant to add new permissions. If there are no strong opinions, I'll just add it to the Modify Group Settings permission.

Thanks,
Mark

On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 2:13 PM, Cacky B <cackyb@...> wrote:
My preference would definitely that only owner/mods with full privilege be able to create sub groups.  As someone else has said, giving this option to a full membership could be very unwieldy.  If there are those who prefer to allow members to create sub groups, then having that as an option when the parent group is set up so that owners could choose what will work for their specific group.

Again, making the options on where the archives are viewable (parent group and sub group or only sub group) seems like a good solution for privacy settings.

Cacky


On 10/21/2014 11:00 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
I took a break from working on the calendar stuff (which can get a little tedious) to work on sub groups, and they're mostly ready. Here are details about how they're implemented. I also have a question for the group. Please let me know if you have any feedback:

- group+owner@groups.io is unchanged from what it is now (ie. it's not a full fledged sub group, because it's just different enough that I thought it wouldn't make sense)
- You must be subscribed to the parent group before you can subscribe to the sub group
- Sub groups have 2 privacy settings: archives visible to the parent group subscribers and archives visible only to the sub group subscribers.
- Sub groups are unlisted/don't appear in the search directory
- Sub groups are listed on the group home page, but only if you're already subscribed to the parent group
- There is no invite function for sub groups, but there is direct add from subscribers to the parent group
- Besides these changes, sub groups have all the functionality of main groups

Question:
- How should permissions work? Should it be that only owners/moderators with the correct permission can create sub groups? Or should it be one of: subscribers to the parent group/moderators/owners? That is, can 'normal' subscribers of the parent group create sub groups?

Thanks,
Mark




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locked Re: Subgroups

Cacky B
 

My preference would definitely that only owner/mods with full privilege be able to create sub groups.  As someone else has said, giving this option to a full membership could be very unwieldy.  If there are those who prefer to allow members to create sub groups, then having that as an option when the parent group is set up so that owners could choose what will work for their specific group.

Again, making the options on where the archives are viewable (parent group and sub group or only sub group) seems like a good solution for privacy settings.

Cacky

On 10/21/2014 11:00 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
I took a break from working on the calendar stuff (which can get a little tedious) to work on sub groups, and they're mostly ready. Here are details about how they're implemented. I also have a question for the group. Please let me know if you have any feedback:

- group+owner@groups.io is unchanged from what it is now (ie. it's not a full fledged sub group, because it's just different enough that I thought it wouldn't make sense)
- You must be subscribed to the parent group before you can subscribe to the sub group
- Sub groups have 2 privacy settings: archives visible to the parent group subscribers and archives visible only to the sub group subscribers.
- Sub groups are unlisted/don't appear in the search directory
- Sub groups are listed on the group home page, but only if you're already subscribed to the parent group
- There is no invite function for sub groups, but there is direct add from subscribers to the parent group
- Besides these changes, sub groups have all the functionality of main groups

Question:
- How should permissions work? Should it be that only owners/moderators with the correct permission can create sub groups? Or should it be one of: subscribers to the parent group/moderators/owners? That is, can 'normal' subscribers of the parent group create sub groups?

Thanks,
Mark




This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.



locked Re: Welcome to beta

CGrlgsby <cgrlgsby@...>
 

Greetings,
I am not sure if this has been addressed here but as a new subscriber the welcome message copied below which I received from groups.io was sent directly to my AOL webmail spam folder. I do not have any special filters setup on my end so perhaps AOL considered it spam due to the message containing many URL's ? Stranger things have happened, yeah I know it's AOL but their email has always worked predictably more often than not since the early 90s which is more than I can say for Yahoo's products.

I hope the groups.io effort succeeds, I have managed groups on Y! since the OneList/eGroups days of the late 90s and am very unhappy with the 'new and improved' Y! groups and Y!mail. Your way of public beta testing is the way Y! should have handled their sweeping changes, not having thrust them upon unsuspecting group 'owners' and their members.

Best,
CG

-----Original Message-----
From: Beta Group <ignore@groups.io>
To: cgrlgsby <cgrlgsby@...>
Sent: Thu, Oct 9, 2014 2:08 pm
Subject: Welcome to beta

Hello,
Welcome to the beta group at Groups.io, a free, easy-to-use email group service. Please take a moment to review this message.
To learn more about the beta group, please visit https://groups.io/org/groupsio/beta
To start sending messages to members of this group, simply send email to beta@groups.io
If you do not wish to belong to beta, you may unsubscribe by sending an email to beta+unsubscribe@groups.io
To see and modify all of your groups, go to https://groups.io

Regards,
The beta Moderator
----End Original----


locked Re: Subgroups

Derek Shanahan <derek@...>
 

Initial feeling on permissions is that it could vary quite a bit depending on group, but the right for 'normal' members to set up subgroups could be unwieldy. Maybe let admin/mods decide if they want 'normal' members to have that right as a Setting?




-
Derek Shanahan                  


// email: derek@...

On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 9:00 PM, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:
I took a break from working on the calendar stuff (which can get a little tedious) to work on sub groups, and they're mostly ready. Here are details about how they're implemented. I also have a question for the group. Please let me know if you have any feedback:

- group+owner@groups.io is unchanged from what it is now (ie. it's not a full fledged sub group, because it's just different enough that I thought it wouldn't make sense)
- You must be subscribed to the parent group before you can subscribe to the sub group
- Sub groups have 2 privacy settings: archives visible to the parent group subscribers and archives visible only to the sub group subscribers.
- Sub groups are unlisted/don't appear in the search directory
- Sub groups are listed on the group home page, but only if you're already subscribed to the parent group
- There is no invite function for sub groups, but there is direct add from subscribers to the parent group
- Besides these changes, sub groups have all the functionality of main groups

Question:
- How should permissions work? Should it be that only owners/moderators with the correct permission can create sub groups? Or should it be one of: subscribers to the parent group/moderators/owners? That is, can 'normal' subscribers of the parent group create sub groups?

Thanks,
Mark



locked Re: Subgroups

 

Mark,

- Sub groups have 2 privacy settings: archives visible to the parent
group subscribers and archives visible only to the sub group
subscribers.
- Sub groups are unlisted/don't appear in the search directory
- Sub groups are listed on the group home page, but only if you're
already subscribed to the parent group
The Privacy settings for a subgroup could mirror those for the parent group:
- Listed in parent group, archives visible to parent group members
- Listed in parent group, private archives
- Not listed in parent group, private archives
With no option to make the sub group listed in the directory, nor to make its archives publicly viewable.

Question:
- How should permissions work? Should it be that only owners/moderators
with the correct permission can create sub groups? Or should it be one
of: subscribers to the parent group/moderators/owners? That is, can
'normal' subscribers of the parent group create sub groups?
I can see arguments either way, depending on the nature of the group. So...

The logical selections (to an access control option) would seem to be:
- Off (no one can create a sub group)
- Moderators (this includes owners)
- Members
I think the control would be over access to the affordance to create sub groups. That is, selecting "Off" wouldn't affect any existing sub-groups.

-- Shal


locked Subgroups

 

I took a break from working on the calendar stuff (which can get a little tedious) to work on sub groups, and they're mostly ready. Here are details about how they're implemented. I also have a question for the group. Please let me know if you have any feedback:

- group+owner@groups.io is unchanged from what it is now (ie. it's not a full fledged sub group, because it's just different enough that I thought it wouldn't make sense)
- You must be subscribed to the parent group before you can subscribe to the sub group
- Sub groups have 2 privacy settings: archives visible to the parent group subscribers and archives visible only to the sub group subscribers.
- Sub groups are unlisted/don't appear in the search directory
- Sub groups are listed on the group home page, but only if you're already subscribed to the parent group
- There is no invite function for sub groups, but there is direct add from subscribers to the parent group
- Besides these changes, sub groups have all the functionality of main groups

Question:
- How should permissions work? Should it be that only owners/moderators with the correct permission can create sub groups? Or should it be one of: subscribers to the parent group/moderators/owners? That is, can 'normal' subscribers of the parent group create sub groups?

Thanks,
Mark


locked Re: How does groups.io deal with "bouncing members"?

 



On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 4:01 PM, Shal Farley <shal@...> wrote:

I'm curious about the cases you find uncertain.

We get bounces two ways. One is during the SMTP transaction, when we're sending the email out. The receiving email server responds with a non-2xx error code. Those are easy enough to parse; we have a status code and (generally) one line of reason. Anything non-5xx we treat as soft. For 5xx bounces, we have a few patterns we match against to determine if it's really a hard bounce. If we get a match (ie. Yahoo will return 'This user doesn't have a yahoo.com account'), we treat it as a hard bounce. Everything else, soft (and we log it for later analysis and inclusion in the match patterns).

The other case where we receive bounces are (some time) after a successful SMTP transaction is complete, we get the message sent back to us, using the envelope address. Those are the difficult ones to parse, because there's really no widely used standard.

Because I had no examples of modern bounces from the second scenario when developing the bounce system, we currently treat all bounces received that way as soft bounces, and we log the messages for later examination. And up to now, we've received no bounces this way. I'm actually not sure how many mail servers operate this way anymore.


 
> If we receive soft bounces for someone for 8 days, we also change
> their status to Bouncing and stop sending email to them.

In the case of an RBL problem the member may be having some fraction of the messages bounced, and the rest delivered. How does your mechanism work in such a case? Is a single bounce in each of eight consecutive days sufficient to change the status, or does it require eight days with all messages bounced, or something in between?

Right now, it's 8 consecutive days of all bounces. A single success resets things. I don't know if this is the right solution. Thoughts?

 
> If we receive no response after sending 4 of these bounce reports to
> them, we automatically unsubscribe them from all groups they are
> subscribed to.

If such an address happens to be the sole owner of a group, what happens to the group (if anything)?

We have a constraint such that the sole owner of a group cannot be unsubscribed from the group, so nothing would happen (at some point a mechanism will need to be developed for instances when group owners disappear/etc, but with the service being so young right now, it's not a priority).

Thanks,
Mark


locked Re: How does groups.io deal with "bouncing members"?

 

Mark,

For many scenarios, it's clear cut whether a bounce is a hard bounce
or a soft bounce. But in some cases, we can't tell. In that case, we
assume it's a soft bounce.
I'm curious about the cases you find uncertain.

Yahoo Groups's handling of bounces was once very much like you describe, with the hard/soft distinction being made strictly by the response code (4xy is soft, 5xy is hard), per the email RFC.

But then a couple years back some email services started using 5xy codes when rejecting due to RBL results (Realtime Black List, or Dynamic Black List) - which made a mess of things. At that point Yahoo Groups started treating all bounces as "soft".

Is that the circumstance you're concerned with? And are you using some kind of heuristic to further discriminate among 5xy responses?

If we receive soft bounces for someone for 8 days, we also change
their status to Bouncing and stop sending email to them.
In the case of an RBL problem the member may be having some fraction of the messages bounced, and the rest delivered. How does your mechanism work in such a case? Is a single bounce in each of eight consecutive days sufficient to change the status, or does it require eight days with all messages bounced, or something in between?

If we receive no response after sending 4 of these bounce reports to
them, we automatically unsubscribe them from all groups they are
subscribed to.
If such an address happens to be the sole owner of a group, what happens to the group (if anything)?

-- Shal


locked Re: How does groups.io deal with "bouncing members"?

 

Excellent question, and one that needs to be addressed in the Help Center. Here is what I've written for the help center. Please let me know if you have any questions or suggestions for how it can be improved (either the text or the actual bounce handling....)

-----
An email bounce occurs when a message cannot be delivered. It could be that the email address is incorrect. Or the user's mailbox is full. Or the user's email provider is having a temporary problem handling email.

There are two general types of email bounces: hard bounces and soft bounces. Hard bounces are permanent errors; no more email should be delivered to that email address. Soft bounces are temporary problems; email isn't being received right now, but the email address is valid and it's expected that whatever the problem is will go away.

Groups.io provides fully automated bounce handling. When we receive a bounce, we try to determine whether it's a hard or a soft bounce. For many scenarios, it's clear cut whether a bounce is a hard bounce or a soft bounce. But in some cases, we can't tell. In that case, we assume it's a soft bounce.

When we receive a hard bounce for someone, we immediately change their status to Bouncing, and we stop sending email to them. If we receive soft bounces for someone for 8 days, we also change their status to Bouncing and stop sending email to them.

Once a user is Bouncing, every 3 days we attempt to send an email to them, explaining that we are not sending group messages to them. The email has a link they can click to unbounce their account.

If we receive no response after sending 4 of these bounce reports to them, we automatically unsubscribe them from all groups they are subscribed to.

Members that have the Bouncing status are displayed in the Members view with a 'B' next to their subscription..

You can view the email delivery history for any of your group members, by clicking on a member in the Members view, then clicking the 'Email Delivery History' link at the top of the page. For groups that you do not moderate, you can view your own email delivery history by clicking on the Subscription link for the group. There will be a 'Email Delivery History' link at the top of the page.
------

Mark

On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 12:05 PM, ro-esp <ro-esp@...> wrote:
In yahoogroups, failure to delive tha message makes members get listed as "bouncing".If the mods don't bother to check the "bouncing"-list regularly (and send reactivation-requests), the group can lose a lot of members without anyone noticing...

So what happens in groups.io ? Does the sender get notified of non-delivery? Do the moderators? Is there a notification for when someone gets listed as "bouncing"?


                 groetjes, Ronaldo
--
http://www.esperanto..net  http://www.moneyasdebt.net



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locked How does groups.io deal with "bouncing members"?

ro-esp
 

In yahoogroups, failure to delive tha message makes members get listed as "bouncing".If the mods don't bother to check the "bouncing"-list regularly (and send reactivation-requests), the group can lose a lot of members without anyone noticing...

So what happens in groups.io ? Does the sender get notified of non-delivery? Do the moderators? Is there a notification for when someone gets listed as "bouncing"?


groetjes, Ronaldo
--
http://www.esperanto.net http://www.moneyasdebt.net


locked Re: How Do You Pronounce Groups.io?

Laurence Taylor
 

On 20/10/2014 02:17, David P. Dillard wrote:


I am lost on this one, what is the connection between punction and Victor
Borge?
See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzZFuMuMKXI .


--
rgds
LAurence


locked Re: How Do You Pronounce Groups.io?

David P. Dillard
 

I guess I was unconcious in a bit of a deep comma to have missed this. I have been aware of Borge's exploits in the world of classical music, but this venture escaped me. Thanks for the link. It was a very good period piece without question and should make its mark in the world of grammar exposition and you can quote me on this.




Sincerely,
David Dillard
Temple University
(215) 204 - 4584
jwne@temple.edu

On Sun, 19 Oct 2014, Shal Farley wrote:

David,

I am lost on this one, what is the connection between punction and
Victor Borge?
Oh, what an impoverished life you've led.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bpIbdZhrzA

-- Shal





locked Re: How Do You Pronounce Groups.io?

 

David,

I am lost on this one, what is the connection between punction and
Victor Borge?
Oh, what an impoverished life you've led.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bpIbdZhrzA

-- Shal


locked Re: How Do You Pronounce Groups.io?

David P. Dillard
 

I am lost on this one, what is the connection between punction and Victor Borge?

By the way, pbulically archived sites on IO will be indexed by Google.


Everyone have a great week.


..


Sincerely,
David Dillard
Temple University
(215) 204 - 4584
jwne@temple.edu

On Sun, 19 Oct 2014, Laurence Taylor wrote:

On 18/10/2014 22:45, Shal Farley wrote:

Of those I'd choose "groups eye oh" - "groups eee oh" sounds a little
too Italiano to me, or too much like like the diminutive "oopsy-oh".
I'd go for "groups eye oh" too. I don't pronounce punctuation (where's
Victor Borge when you need him?).

I did look up where the IO domain is, and it's the British Indian Ocean
Territory (Diego Garcia &c). I was beginning to wonder if the server was
somewhere near Jupiter!


--
rgds
LAurence