Date   

moderated Re: Font Size variation in body of posts / digests - thoughts? #suggestion

 

Maria,

I'd be curious to know how forums that use discourse do it (like the
feverbee community). Their web interface is all the same font size
and their mailing list summaries too. It's HTML though not plain
text. Graphics, emojis etc all visually represented. I think at
least...
A forum might have limited composition tools, and might or might not represent the messages in HTML internally (though they must be converted to HTML for display in a browser or via email).

Groups tend to be fundamentally different in that posting by email is common - and the email user interfaces usually give the users fairly broad (if not complete) control of the sent HTML.

I could see where a group that posts entirely (or primarily) on the Groups.io interface might want an selection in between plain text and general HTML - one that removes the font, size and color choices but still allows text styles (italic, bold) and other elements.

Shal
https://groups.io/g/Group_Help
https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum


moderated Re: Font Size variation in body of posts / digests - thoughts? #suggestion

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

On Sun, Jan 8, 2017 at 05:19 pm, Shal Farley wrote:
They could compose in plain text instead, as Duane related. In the email interfaces I'm familiar with (including Gmail and Thunderbird) plain text composition and reading use a font and size selected via the settings (options) page.

Well, I suppose they could.  I could also do the same.  That goes against the trend that's decades long now that the default composition and reading modes are generally HTML.

What it comes down to is how much customization individual end users are expected to do in order to create an end result that other end users are demanding (and I don't use that pejoratively).  I can say with utter certainty that, as a general rule, I try to teach blind or visually-impaired individuals to avoid doing any unnecessary customizing, because it makes it incredibly more difficult to use the portable versions of screen readers or third-party magnification software if they find that they need to use someone else's computer and nothing is "normal" when they do.   I used to take precisely the opposite approach, making an individual user's computer "fit like a glove," until I saw firsthand what happened when they had to jump on to, say, a computer lab computer or a friend's computer and do something they could do with ease, but nothing works in the way they're accustomed to because it depended on having tons of stuff customized that typically is not.   It decreases independence and accessibility rather than increases it.

Brian


moderated Re: Font Size variation in body of posts / digests - thoughts? #suggestion

 

Brian,

... a lot of the folks I read who have low vision as opposed to
blindness routinely use 24 or 36 point font in their messages because
this is what allows them to read their own messages while they
compose them.
They could compose in plain text instead, as Duane related. In the email interfaces I'm familiar with (including Gmail and Thunderbird) plain text composition and reading use a font and size selected via the settings (options) page.

In both Gmail and Thunderbird this is called the "Default" text style - it is also what you get if you use the "Remove formatting" tool within an HTML composition window.

Shal
https://groups.io/g/Group_Help
https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum


moderated Re: Font Size variation in body of posts / digests - thoughts? #suggestion

 

Brian,

... I have been told that the group owner is able to control, at
the group level, the availability of fonts, sizes, etc., but have no
way to verify that.
The only control is to check the Plain Text Only box in the group's Settings page, as Duane has done. That puts the display font and size under the control of the receiving user interface (webmail, email client application, or Groups.io messages page).

Shal
https://groups.io/g/Group_Help
https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum


moderated Re: Font Size variation in body of posts / digests - thoughts? #suggestion

Maria
 

Thanks Shal. Plain text is not an option for us. :(

I'd be curious to know how forums that use discourse do it (like the feverbee community). Their web interface is all the same font size and their mailing list summaries too. It's HTML though not plain text. Graphics, emojis etc all visually represented. I think at least...

Maria


moderated Re: Font Size variation in body of posts / digests - thoughts? #suggestion

 

Maria,

I'm curious if I'm the only one who is bothered by the fact that the
font size of the body of a post can be changed from the default 14 pt
to something smaller or something bigger, and that this change is
translated in to the digest as well.
Yahoo Groups use the text/plain message body to create the digests (as well as the message snippets in message lists). That means the font and size is under Yahoo's control in the HTML (full-featured) digests and under the recipient's control in the plain text (traditional) digests.

Plain text format is also available as a subscription option for digests at Groups.io, but there isn't an option for mixed format (HTML for the digest structure, but plain text for the members' message text).

I guess I am not sure what the advantage is to have posts that are
written in 18 point size font or for that matter 8 point? And for
then the digest to have content that is also in different font sizes.
What am I missing?
As Duane menioned, it is a consequence of allowing messages in HTML format: you've ceded control of the font, size, color and other characteristics to the sending member. Unless you opt for plain-text digests.

Shal
https://groups.io/g/Group_Help
https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum


moderated Re: Message Number Missing in E-mail footer

Nightowl >8#
 

Shal Farley wrote:>>I'm not sure when it changed, but a GMF member called to my attention that lately the View/Reply links (in HTML format, both individual and digest) are now the URL to the topic. Meaning that you land at the top of the (possibly long) topic, not at the particular message within the topic. I've reported that behavior as a bug, so we'll see.<<

Thank you Shal! I knew it wasn't like it had been before!

Hopefully he'll fix it, and I'll be able to continue keeping my place with the e-mail message folder in Thunderbird.

Brenda


moderated Re: Message Number Missing in E-mail footer

 

Linda,

I read and reply to the beta digest via my email program, Windows
Live Mail. When I hover over the link to View/Reply Online of any
message in the digest, the link destination appears in the space at
the very bottom of the email window. The behavior I describe is
consistent in the links below every message of the beta digest to
which I'm replying.
I'm not sure when it changed, but a GMF member called to my attention that lately the View/Reply links (in HTML format, both individual and digest) are now the URL to the topic. Meaning that you land at the top of the (possibly long) topic, not at the particular message within the topic.

I've reported that behavior as a bug, so we'll see.

Shal
https://groups.io/g/Group_Help
https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum


moderated Re: Font Size variation in body of posts / digests - thoughts? #suggestion

Maria
 

One last ( i think) reason why the font size should be the same (especially in digests) is that the font size of the post content/body should never be bigger than the subject line. I think, especially on digests, that looks and feels very awkward and goes against convention.



moderated Re: Font Size variation in body of posts / digests - thoughts? #suggestion

Maria
 

On Sun, Jan 8, 2017 at 03:25 pm, Brian Vogel wrote:
           I do not know whether, as things stand currently, someone can customize things to their liking at the compose stage but have it converted to the "group convention" at the send stage.

I hope there is a way to do that! I completely get the challenges with the composition end of things as you describe, but I think on the reading side all posts should be the same size for consistency and so we can all set our preferred viewing size in our browser and not have to jump up/down in size based on how messages are being composed. 

Maria


moderated Re: Signatures for Web Posting suddenly not working on multiple groups

 

Thanks. Hoping Mark sees it here, but I will send a bug report to support just in case.I've seen it for at least a week now, but only notice it when I'm looking through a longish thread.
J

On Sun, Jan 8, 2017 at 3:45 PM, HR Tech via Groups.Io <m.conway11@...> wrote:

Right. I think it's a bug. If you switch to viewing 100 messages - you will see the whole thread.

It's an infinite scroll issue that I don't recall seeing before.

I noticed same thing today.

Maria



--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Signatures for Web Posting suddenly not working on multiple groups

Maria
 

Right. I think it's a bug. If you switch to viewing 100 messages - you will see the whole thread.

It's an infinite scroll issue that I don't recall seeing before.

I noticed same thing today.

Maria


moderated Re: Signatures for Web Posting suddenly not working on multiple groups

 

Thanks, Brian, I appreciate that. I don't know if it's my cache but that is such a PITA to clear...I think the issue is something else but I will try to do it anyway.

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Signatures for Web Posting suddenly not working on multiple groups

 

On Sun, Jan 8, 2017 at 02:53 pm, HR Tech wrote:
is your viewing preference set to infinite scroll?

Yes, it is and I'm almost certain that's what's not working. Can anyone else try this? Go to a message in a long thread, click on "show entire thread" (or however it's worded), and see if you get everything? I'm now missing seeing most of almost all the threads in my own group, and have to resort to going through messages one-by-one to respond to people. I may report as a bug. 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Font Size variation in body of posts / digests - thoughts? #suggestion

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

Maria,

           My concern is almost exclusively with the composition end, rather than the reading end.  It's almost as difficult to explain some of the "necessary gyrations" I've seen, and sometimes helped engineer, as a sighted person in relation to what it's like to actually have a visual impairment as it would be for me to launch myself to the moon.

           My guess, and it is just that, is from a practical standpoint there would be very little difficulty presenting everything in the same "size and shape" if no imposition is made that the user must compose in that same "size and shape."   There are good reasons, and I'm quite sure that you or anyone who does any writing with a keyboard and a screen can understand this, why how you process what you're in the act of composing is distinctly different than how one reads material that is already written, whether earlier by oneself or by someone else.   Both employ written language, but reading (with rare exceptions - I still can't get through most sentences by Henry James) is generally less demanding than writing is, and easing the "reading while writing" equation matters.

           I do not know whether, as things stand currently, someone can customize things to their liking at the compose stage but have it converted to the "group convention" at the send stage.

Brian


moderated Re: Signatures for Web Posting suddenly not working on multiple groups

Maria
 

On Sun, Jan 8, 2017 at 02:27 pm, J_Catlady wrote:
I am not seeing complete threads onlist.

Out of curiosity, is your viewing preference set to infinite scroll?

Maria


moderated Re: Font Size variation in body of posts / digests - thoughts? #suggestion

Maria
 

Thanks for taking the time Brian. Lots of interesting thoughts.

I guess I still feel that even on the web / mobile web browser interface all posts should be the same font size. Just as they are if you are reading an online news site, facebook, instagram, comments on amazon, yelp, reddit, twitter, etc. I don't see variation on those interfaces of font size when people post.

I get that one wants to compose in a font size that works for them but then when it comes to reading - that post - and that post only - will appear 2x bigger than all others. There must be a better way.  There are tools to see the web interface enlarged, composing a message in a large font size means that everyone else will see it much larger than most other posts and the font size jumps up/down which makes it really hard to figure out how you want to set your browser view. Maybe posts that come in with a font size that is much larger than the default could be translated to something more in line with the default size.

I do think consistency is a good thing when it comes to content, because it helps the user/ reader determine their preferred viewing settings.

In our group we get a few posts each day with smaller or larger fonts. Most of them are consistently 14 pts - especially anything posted via email on iphone which is a good chunk. All of those emails default to 14 pt regardless of how huge or small the author sees them in their composition window.

But it's very interesting to hear everyone's thoughts. Thank you!

Maria


moderated Re: Signatures for Web Posting suddenly not working on multiple groups

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

On Sun, Jan 8, 2017 at 02:27 pm, J_Catlady wrote:
Anyway, maybe this gives me an excuse because I don't even know what you're accusing me of LOL 

I made a response to your ginormous=yelling post, the close of which could have been incorrectly read ad a back-handed attempt to say you're a heartless b*tch.  It was not intended to be such, and I wanted to correct that promptly.

I will send you a copy/paste of the original via private message, so you have context.   I still suspect you have some sort of browser cache corruption going on since this is now a recurring issue for you.  On a note related to that, I find CCleaner free (available at piriform.com) to be a much easier way to do browser cache cleanup than any of the various browsers' own built-in techniques.  You do need to be careful when you first run it to look at the settings so that you don't "clean" certain things you'd rather still have, but these are mostly not browser related.  After that it's a cinch to clean the browser cache, and a lot of other junk, from every browser you have and your computer itself in one click.

Brian


moderated Re: Signatures for Web Posting suddenly not working on multiple groups

 

On Sun, Jan 8, 2017 at 01:16 pm, Ro wrote:
perhaps you are oversensitive to ginormousicism?

Evidently so! But it came out in regular font when I copy-pasted! I don't understand this whole thing. ;) 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. Especially the fishy ones.

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


moderated Re: Message Number Missing in E-mail footer

Nightowl >8#
 

Linda wrote:>> I compose in plain text but I read the digest in html.<<

Ah, I don't get digest, I get individual messages.

Linda wrote:>>I don't know if you compose and read emails in html or pt or if you are using a pc or a mac, or which email program you are using. There are so many variables.<<

I compose and read everything in plain text. I'm using a PC, running Windows 10, and I have Thunderbird as my E-mail client.

The numbers were always there before, in either plain text or HTML. They disappeared for me yesterday when the finalization of the footer changes were done. So I suspect that is what happened.

Hopefully Mark will fix it where they appear again in HTML. Meantime, in order to know where I stopped reading on here, I'll just write the number down on my notepad.

Thanks,

Brenda

18061 - 18080 of 30375