Date   

locked Re: POLL: Change Archives to Messages?

Duane
 

That sounds like a good alternative. I think I'd like Message Archives a bit better.  Gee, too bad there's not a POLL function on this site. (VBG)

Duane


locked Re: cover photo

 

Jim,

I don't understand why there's any need for width matching or any
other processing of cover photos.
I don't speak for Mark, but is usually done because every member's window might be a different width, and modern design sensibilities abhor having variable blank space around a fixed size image. And a fixed size image is inevitably a screen hog on one's mobile device but a postage stamp on another's large-screen monitor.

Why not just let people upload images as they like, and display them
as sent, possibly with an option to have them aligned left, centre or
right (with centre as the default). Obviously some people will need
guidance as to what size is reasonable in term of pixels so they show
sensibly on different screen widths, ...
Those are additional complications. It isn't "simple and easy to use" if you have to tell the user to pre-process the image into a certain pixel size. Many users aren't proficient with any image editing tools.

What might be nice is an uploader that allows the user to upload any image and see a "live" preview that allows the user to zoom and pan the image within a rectangle representing the cover image display. In other words, provide a simple size and crop tool. Maybe it needs both a "max" and a "min" rectangle: always crop down to the max, but never crop smaller than the min. Then users with a logo or other specific art can use the min rectangle to ensure that the important part of the image shows.

What I suggested was a lot simpler (for Mark, but maybe not for the user): a simple checkbox that's useful for users that have a logo or otherwise fully prepared image, but not too helpful for a user with a photo of which they'd like to use only a portion.

And note that none of this required the user to think about pixel sizes: the pixels would be resampled automatically as needed to fit the selected portion of the image into the display window.

-- Shal


locked Re: POLL: Change Archives to Messages?

 

Yes please.

Robert

Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone on the O2 network.
From: Mark Fletcher
Sent: Friday, 23 January 2015 18:55
To: beta@groups.io
Reply To: beta@groups.io
Subject: [beta] POLL: Change Archives to Messages?

Should we change the name Archives to Messages?

Thanks,
Mark


locked Re: POLL: Change Archives to Messages?

Frances
 

Hi

I vote yes - Messages.

Clearer than Archives. 

It is familiar - YahooGroups uses Messages within the body of the page, as in “3 messages added in the last 7 days” and “New Messages”. Not “Conversations” which YG uses for its dropdown menu.

Frances

On Jan 23 15, at 1:55 PM, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:

Should we change the name Archives to Messages?

Thanks,
Mark


locked POLL: Change Archives to Messages?

 

Should we change the name Archives to Messages?

Thanks,
Mark


locked Re: Lightweight "integrations" - link only #suggestion

 

On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 1:42 AM, Shal Farley <shal@...> wrote:

Yes, such links could be added to the home page Website or description, or to the (future) Links feature or Wiki. But there may be a few which, in the opinion of the owner, deserve the first-class privilege of placement in the left-hand column list of group features.

I've had this thought as well. I'll add it to the list.

Thanks,
Mark 


locked Re: [owlperch] To Duane, Matthew, Shal & Tyger

 

On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 10:23 AM, Feathered Leader <featheredleader@...> wrote:

However, John discovered something else. Message # 43 is missing in Owlperch (and I didn't delete it), and it should have been there as my first reply to Shal, using the Web Interface. All of a sudden last night, when I replied, I noticed the message # had jumped from 40 something to a number over 1000. I knew that was weird, and that was how I noticed suddenly, my post was in Beta.

This is going to get a little technical. Every email has a unique 'message-id'. This is just a long string of characters, and the hope is that it's unique in all the world. It's generated by your email client or email server.

When replying to a message, the message-id of the email you're replying to is included in the headers of your email. That's how email clients know one message is a reply to another message. If someone then replies to your reply, they will have your message-id in the header to their message, and so on. But they will also generally include the message-id of the original email in the headers as well. You end up with a chain of message-ids. If you view the headers for an email, this is the 'References:' line.

One other thing to note, emails can arrive out of order. We can get a reply to an email before we get the original email.

So, if we get an email, with a message-id in the references list that we've never seen before, we think we've gotten an out of order reply, and that we should expect to see the original message at some point. We put a 'placeholder' message in the database that corresponds to this message we haven't seen before. It's empty, and it doesn't show up in archives, but it does have a message number. When we see the original message, we replace the placeholder with the original, and we're good.

So, there may be cases where message numbers jump without someone having deleted a message. This should be very rare.

What happened in this case is that Shal replied to an email in a different group. Therefore, his message had in the references a message-id that the group owlperch had never seen. We assumed we were seeing an out of order reply, and added a placeholder for the message we hadn't seen (and will never see, since it's from another group).

So, things are working as designed. It does occur to me that I can make the algorithm a little less 'anal' which would prevent a message number jump in this instance. It would increase the change of weird threading behavior, but I think the chance of that happening would be small.

More info than you wanted to know.....


Mark


locked Re: cover photo

 

I don't understand why there's any need for width matching or any other
processing of cover photos. Why not just let people upload images as they like,
and display them as sent, possibly with an option to have them aligned left,
centre or right (with centre as the default). Obviously some people will need
guidance as to what size is reasonable in term of pixels so they show sensibly
on different screen widths, and there probably needs to be a file size limit. I
think that's more or less what Shal is suggesting, isn't it? The coding should
be a lot simpler than any width matching or other adjustments.

Jim Fisher

On 22 Jan 2015 at 19:44, Feathered Leader wrote:

Shal wrote:>>Possibly add an option to disable the width matching so that
something like logo art can be used as the group's image, knowing that it will
be flanked with background color but without the danger of it being cropped.<<

Bingo. We need some sort of frame box, or colored background frame that we can
position the photo in anywhere, and make it work. I tried to make such a frame
on Owlperch but it even stretched the frame.

Making the cover photo much more simpler to put up and take down and switch is a
huge requirement for many Yahoo Groups. I hope we can find some sort of
compromise where it can be simpler.

Brenda
--
http://www.jimella.me.uk - my personal web site covering many subjects
http://jimellame.tumblr.com - My thoughts on freedom
http://jimella.wordpress.com - political snippets, especially economic policy
http://jimella.livejournal.com - misc. snippets, some political, some not
Forget Google! I search with https://duckduckgo.com which doesn't spy on you


locked Re: [owlperch] To Duane, Matthew, Shal & Tyger

Nightowl >8#
 

Mark:

John looked at my headers and stuff in Thunderbird. I DO have two copies from Shal, but I would not have noticed that because I was posting from the Owlperch web site.

However, John discovered something else. Message # 43 is missing in Owlperch (and I didn't delete it), and it should have been there as my first reply to Shal, using the Web Interface. All of a sudden last night, when I replied, I noticed the message # had jumped from 40 something to a number over 1000. I knew that was weird, and that was how I noticed suddenly, my post was in Beta.

Please help us figure out what happened, so we don't do it again.

Thanks.


locked Re: View options

 

Hi Dan,

Yep, it's on the todo list.

Thanks!
Mark

On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 7:25 AM, D R Stinson <dano@...> wrote:
Brenda, I don't presume to know exactly what others intend. I find it much safer to offer my thoughts and observations and let Mark sort it out. I *have* checked his To Do list, and didn't find such a reference, so I offered it in writing. I'm sure Mark is much more familiar with what's in his list than we are, and it's possible I missed something, hence my apology if it was a repeat.  --  Dano







locked Re: Replying to messages

 

(Reply to several messages in this thread)

Several good ideas, I've updated the 'Messages and Archives' todo list with:

CC/BCC in Group Post
Reply directly to the sender
Link in message footer to 'Reply on the web'
Quote the original message in a reply
When clicking on reply, possibly scroll up slightly to expose the reply box

Thanks,
Mark

On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 8:01 AM, CatWoman <diana@...> wrote:
On 1/22/2015 10:39 PM, J. Faulkner wrote:
It allows me to reply at the top so when someone reads my reply, they
see it first and don’t have to hunt for it further down in the message.

If you are talking about a message - and "top posting" - I disagree.

I know that is the "new way" - most mail clients have the default as
top posting, but my problem with that is that in order to find out
what the person is replying to - I have to go search the message.

If you put just the specific thing you are responding to on top,
then you read that first, and then the response, as you see here.

It's a more natural way to read than response first.

dg






locked Re: Owner messages in Archives

 

On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 7:30 AM, D R Stinson <dano@...> wrote:
Mark - I've noticed that messages posted from the owner addresses post to email as coming from the owner, but messages in the archives show as just coming from me. I think it might be more useful to show those messages in the Archives as coming from the owner for sorting purposes and to be consistent.  --  Dano

Good idea. I've added it to the list.

Thanks,
Mark 


locked Re: [owlperch] To Duane, Matthew, Shal & Tyger

 

On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 1:40 AM, Shal Farley <shal@...> wrote:

> Shal...how did you get this post into Beta?

Darn good question.

I replied to your post, sending it to owlperch only I thought. But I received it back from both owlperch and beta. As apparently did you, and unfortunately you replied to the copy from beta. I'm leaving this reply in beta, as explanation and apology to the members of beta.

I can only imagine that somehow I got beta into the bcc field without noticing. But that idea is contradicted by my sent message - it has nothing in the bcc field.


I looked through the logs. At 12:46am pacific time, we received an inbound smtp connection from RoadRunner. In the one connection, both emails were sent, one after the other. The beta message was sent first, owlperch was second.

Mark


locked Re: Replying to messages

 

On 1/22/2015 10:39 PM, J. Faulkner wrote:
It allows me to reply at the top so when someone reads my reply, they
see it first and don’t have to hunt for it further down in the message.
If you are talking about a message - and "top posting" - I disagree.

I know that is the "new way" - most mail clients have the default as
top posting, but my problem with that is that in order to find out
what the person is replying to - I have to go search the message.

If you put just the specific thing you are responding to on top,
then you read that first, and then the response, as you see here.

It's a more natural way to read than response first.

dg


locked Re: group-page, top

 

On 1/23/2015 1:11 AM, ro-esp wrote:

I agree with those who prefer the term "messages" to "archive".Please do
NOT call it "conversations"

In the archive/messages I would prefer a chronological order, not newest
on top.

As to the term "inbox".... I sincerely hope that is reserved for what I
see in my email-account, and not used for anything on a iogroups-website
And I agree with these - though for #2, I have reluctantly gotten used
to Yahoo and the newest being "on top" in the web list of messages.
In my email - everything is sorted with newest on the bottom - and
in the order they got to my inbox.

dg


locked Re: group-page, top

 

On 1/23/2015 1:11 AM, ro-esp wrote:

Can we opt out of those top-thingies? Discussing is not a contest, and
neither a subject nor a poster is "more important" because of more
prolific messages
Yes, please!

Nothing to make any "forum" turn into more noise than signal than
something indicating who is the "top". One of my biggest annoyances
about LinkedIn.

dg


locked Owner messages in Archives

 

Mark - I've noticed that messages posted from the owner addresses post to email as coming from the owner, but messages in the archives show as just coming from me. I think it might be more useful to show those messages in the Archives as coming from the owner for sorting purposes and to be consistent. -- Dano


locked Re: View options

 

Brenda, I don't presume to know exactly what others intend. I find it much safer to offer my thoughts and observations and let Mark sort it out. I *have* checked his To Do list, and didn't find such a reference, so I offered it in writing. I'm sure Mark is much more familiar with what's in his list than we are, and it's possible I missed something, hence my apology if it was a repeat. -- Dano


locked Re: Starting a new thread and reading the web page view

Duane
 

On my Plain Text only groups, there is no option and it only allows Plain Text. The little option box would be for groups that allow HTML.

2) I agree that a page select box would be helpful at the top.

3) There has been some discussion of having a signature and/or a member status title. Those are down the priority list, but may be added.

I check Mark's todo list every now and then: https://trello.com/b/qu3WgzVq/beta

Duane


locked Re: [owlperch] To Duane, Matthew, Shal & Tyger

Nightowl >8#
 
Edited

EDIT: ACK! It happened again! I somehow replied in here... again... in Beta. (sigh).  Maybe the info I posted about headers will help solve the mystery.

Shal, Mark, help???

Shal wrote:>>I replied to your post, sending it to owlperch only I thought. But I received it back from both owlperch and beta. As apparently did you, and unfortunately you replied to the copy from beta. I'm leaving this reply in beta, as explanation and apology to the members of beta.<<

I only replied to the one posted in Owlperch. I didn't know there was another one in Beta.

I didn't get two copies, just one, which was another reason I was confused. I didn't even know what was going on until I saw the message number was so high after I replied. But in my Mail account box I only have one message for each posting, with this header:
From: Shal (name and e-mail)
Subject: [Beta] Re: [Owlperch]
Reply To: Beta @ groups.io
To: Owlperch @ groups.io

Maybe that will help Mark or you figure out what happened.
(I included spaces to make it not a real link for e-mails)

I also apologize to the members of Beta. Owlperch is a publicly viewable group, but it's mostly for my team and I to discuss both the Crusade and groups.io. I have no idea how the post I replied to on my actual Owlperch website got into Beta. I was not using e-mail.

Hopefully Mark can help us figure out why and how it happened.

Meanwhile, I agree with Shal. It's time for this Owl to go to bed.

Brenda