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locked Re: Change presentation for Subgroups #suggestion

Maria
 

On Mon, Aug 15, 2016 at 05:36 am, HR Tech wrote:
Perhaps it's worth thinking about separating what are admin menu options and what are the group options

At minimum I think it's worth revisiting the order of the menu items in the owner/mods view. 

We currently have options that are not visible to members intermixed with options that are.

I'd put all the member viewable options on top and the admin only on the bottom. Preferably in an Admin top menu with sub-menu choices.

(sorry for fragmented thoughts!)

Maria


locked Re: Change presentation for Subgroups #suggestion

Maria
 

On Sun, Aug 14, 2016 at 10:33 pm, Shal Farley wrote:
I was addressing what I think would be Mark's same question (#10632): how do mods/owners see the members' version if it has the same name as the existing Subgroups button.

 Could one idea perhaps be that on the menu the admin/owner options are listed under an ADMIN menu that then has sub-menu items? So that even if there are 2 possibly similar menu items (member directory or subgroup directory) the admin version by similar name (but with different content) would be located as a sub-menu item of an ADMIN menu?

Perhaps it's worth thinking about separating what are admin menu options and what are the group options. Also as a reminder to the owner as to what he/she sees and what members see as well as a way to shorten the menu in to 2 sections?

Maria



locked Re: Change presentation for Subgroups #suggestion

Maria
 

On Sun, Aug 14, 2016 at 11:03 pm, Shal Farley wrote:
Understood, and I agree.

I'm not sure I would go as far as Brian's sample screen shot, which looks to me like having the subgroups listed at the top of the Topics View page, but having them be more discoverable and convenient than just on the Home page seems like a good idea to me.

I am not keen on the example Brian offered either. I don't like the idea of the main group design/interface being altered and I find the example provided unattractive. In my view, all we need is a menu item for subgroups. You can already see all the recent messages for any subgroup you are actually in in "ALL MESSAGES, right?. So no need in my opinion to disturb the group "messages" lay-out as we'd be duplicating to a certain extent "all messages".

I also don't think the landing page needs to change. One see's all the groups one is in, in the "your groups" area. Then you select which one to go to.

To me, it's more an issue of making the list of sub-groups not be on the homepage of the main group but as a separate area a member can explore and easily remember how to find so that he/she joins a sub-group that's more relevant or useful for the needed purpose. 

Maria


locked Re: Change presentation for Subgroups #suggestion

Maria
 

The only thing to consider is that it's a page that Mods/Owners would need to refer to, to:

1- edit it to add info perhaps (unless it's all automatically entered - which would be cool)

2- provide the link to newbies when a query comes up and also in group files/documentation/reminders.

I think another menu item would be fine since that menu for members is limited. Perhaps it just gets a different name...?

Maria


locked Re: Change presentation for Subgroups #suggestion

 

Maria,

My main concern is making sure that a newbie can easily see which
sub-groups are offered and then apply to join those that are relevant.
... When you have many sub-groups, listing them on the homepage is not
efficient and also not attractive as it makes that homepage drag on too
long.
Understood, and I agree.

I'm not sure I would go as far as Brian's sample screen shot, which looks to me like having the subgroups listed at the top of the Topics View page, but having them be more discoverable and convenient than just on the Home page seems like a good idea to me.

Especially if the homepage isn't really the landing spot because we go
straight to messages.
Perhaps, in groups which have sub-groups, the proposed new Subgroup page ought to be the landing spot for members, especially if it includes information about new content in the primary and each subgroup.

Perhaps a kind of hybrid of the Your Groups list and the All Messages page (via the Groups.io logo), but containing only info pertaining to the primary group in question and its subgroups.


Shal
https://groups.io/g/Group_Help
https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum


locked Re: Change presentation for Subgroups #suggestion

 

Maria,

I am envisioning a sub-group menu item that is more of a "subgroup
directory/listing" not a place to do admin work as the current subgroup
menu item for mods/owners is.
Understood.

I was addressing what I think would be Mark's same question (#10632): how do mods/owners see the members' version if it has the same name as the existing Subgroups button.
https://groups.io/g/beta/message/10632

One answer is to do nothing: mods/owners see only the admin version and must log out and log in as a member to see the member version. Another answer is to add yet another item on the sidebar (as seen by mods/owners), and figure out what to call it.

My suggestion supposes that mods/owners would relatively seldom want to see the members' version, so using a generic mechanism (View group as Member) would solve both issues (Members list and Subgroups list) and might have broader utility. My suggestion is really a variation on the "do nothing" answer, but a little more convenient for the moderator than having a second group subscription (as a member) and switching between them.


Shal
https://groups.io/g/Group_Help
https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum


locked Re: Change presentation for Subgroups #suggestion

Maria
 

On Sun, Aug 14, 2016 at 05:48 pm, Shal Farley wrote:
As Brian mentioned there may be subgroups that ought not be listed there (or on the home page). To this end each subgroup has a Privacy setting that controls whether or not it is listed in the parent group.

By "all available" I mean, any that are available / visible to members of the parent group but that may be sub-groups that only those approved may post to.

My main concern is making sure that a newbie can easily see which sub-groups are offered and then apply to join those that are relevant. At the moment the only way is to view the sub-group listing on the home page of the parent group. When you have many sub-groups, listing them on the homepage is not efficient and also not attractive as it makes that homepage drag on too long. Which is why I'd rather see a subgroup listing/directory within the group as a menu item.

Especially if the homepage isn't really the landing spot because we go straight to messages.

Maria


locked Re: Change presentation for Subgroups #suggestion

Maria
 

On Sun, Aug 14, 2016 at 05:48 pm, Shal Farley wrote:
This would be another case where group mods/owners (for whom there is already a Subgroups item in the left column) would see something substantially different than what a plain member sees. As with the Members list idea, this could be overcome with a "View As Member" control for the mods/owners.

I am envisioning a sub-group menu item that is more of a "subgroup directory/listing" not a place to do admin work as the current subgroup menu item for mods/owners is.

What I mean is just a page where all subgroups of the parent group are listed, with descriptions, with info, and with links on how to join or how to view.

Maria


locked Re: Change presentation for Subgroups #suggestion

 

Maria,

I'd love to see a "subgroups" menu item in the main group, rather than
only having the subgroups listed on the home page of the group.
This would be another case where group mods/owners (for whom there is already a Subgroups item in the left column) would see something substantially different than what a plain member sees. As with the Members list idea, this could be overcome with a "View As Member" control for the mods/owners.

This would bring main group members to a list of all available subgroups
with descriptions and info for each one.
As Brian mentioned there may be subgroups that ought not be listed there (or on the home page). To this end each subgroup has a Privacy setting that controls whether or not it is listed in the parent group.

Each subgroup also has a "Restricted" checkbox that controls whether parent group members need approval to join, but it looks like the only way to outright prevent the parent group members from applying would be to set the Privacy control so that they don't see the subgroup at all.

In my PTA group, for example, we have a "board" subgroup which I want the general membership (primary group) to know about but not be able to join. Right now I handle this by making the board subgroup Restricted, and resolve to not approve anyone who isn't elected or appointed to the board (no one has tried that yet).

In that particular case I would like the primary group members to be able to post to the board, but not read the board's messages. At the moment there's no way to do precisely that: I've set the board group to allow Non-Subscribers to Post, but that is too general - there's no option for parent group members only. Fortunately the Privacy option does have a "Listed in parent group, archives viewable by subgroup members only" selection, so that's most of what I need.


Shal
https://groups.io/g/Group_Help
https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum


locked Re: Change presentation for Subgroups #suggestion

Maria
 

I'd love to see a "subgroups" menu item in the main group, rather than only having the subgroups listed on the home page of the group. 

This would bring main group members to a list of all available subgroups with descriptions and info for each one. 


Maria 


locked Mobile Navigation in Topics when there is only one post #suggestion

Maria
 

 I just noticed with mobile when the topic only has one message if you're viewing it in topics view and then you go in to read the message,  there's no navigation to click to the next topic.

You have to hit the messages button to get back to the topics list to read the next one.

Maybe an oversight?

Maria 


locked Re: Mobile Presentation change to match regular web behavior #suggestion

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

Duane,

           You are correct.  This could be implemented with a "Your Groups" mechanism in mobile or simply change the Groups.io button to behave somewhat more like "Your Groups" on mobile, or even make that link for last message into a button (or use larger text like the group name itself) that indicates something like, "Go to Messages"  with the last posted time off to the side, as it doesn't take up much room.

           Something that is a bit more obvious or as close to 100% consistent across platforms.  I realize that the latter is sometimes not achievable while the former is relatively easy.
--
Brian

A lot of what appears to be progress is just so much technological rococo.  ~ Bill Gray


locked Re: Mobile Presentation change to match regular web behavior #suggestion

Duane
 

You would have the same extra step if you used the Groups.io link on the web. I don't use mobile, but it sounds like there's no Your Groups option. I wonder if it could be added without cluttering things too much?

Duane


locked Mobile Presentation change to match regular web behavior #suggestion

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

A while back the change was made such that when you transition between your Groups the default page you land on is the messages page and those are presented either in topics or straight messages based on what the user has chosen.  The same does not occur when interacting with the mobile interface, or at least it doesn't in a way that's intuitively parallel to the way the regular web interface behaves.

On the regular web interface, if I use the "Your Groups" dropdown and choose any group that does not have subgroups I'm shot directly into messages.  The same is true if I choose a specific subgroup of any group that has a primary and subgroups if I choose anything that falls under the actual full group line, which does present the home page for a group.

On the mobile interface, if I use the "Groups.io" button at the top, I get the your groups page, with each group (when that's all there is), or group & subgroup (shown as groupname | subgroup name) shown as a line item followed by the member count, followed by the last message posted link, followed by the subscription status.  My natural reaction would be to hit the main link for the group or group|subgroup that I want to view and I'd expect it to show the messages for that group in the format that I last used, behaving in a parallel way to the regular web interface, but it doesn't - it takes you to the group home page and you have the floating "messages|new topic|more" control beneath it requiring you to hit messages before you actually get to your messages.  I have figured out that one can hit the last message link to go straight there, but for me this is an issue of consistency of behavior between two interfaces to the same information.  It's jarring that the mobile interface requires either an extra step of hitting the messages control or that you must use the last message link to get yourself straight to the message list when this is not how the regular web interface has behaved for quite a while now.
--
Brian

A lot of what appears to be progress is just so much technological rococo.  ~ Bill Gray


locked Change presentation for Subgroups #suggestion

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

I think I've brought this up indirectly in the past and want to bring it up directly now.  As far as I'm concerned, and based on my observations of activity on subgroups on the groups I'm subscribed to, the current way Groups.io presents subgroups essentially forces them into being "dead ends."  They get no traffic because they're essentially treated just like another group in the user interface and when you're viewing the main group they're under you are not made aware that these even exist, and that's even if you're subscribed to them.

The presentation used by whatever forums software that's used by the folks at BleepingComputer.com makes it much easier to know that subgroups exist and actually drives appropriate threads/topics to those subgroups when the main group for a given area is not the most appropriate/focused for a given topic.  It looks like this:

In the case of BC all subforums of a given forum are presented at the top, whether one has subscribed to them or not.  Given the slightly different nature of Groups.io something like this would probably best display all subscribed subgroups similarly to what's shown above but also have either a link or dropdown or something that would indicate that there are other subgroups that one could view if not subscribed or use to subscribe once viewing them.  This would alert anyone using the web interface that subforums do exist in a minimally intrusive way and act to encourage their actual use.

I have no idea how/whether this would play in to the mobile interface, but even something that is a single element alerting users to the presence of subgroups would be useful.

Of course, the only subgroups one should be able to see are subgroups that one would be able to join, but I imagine the mechanisms for presenting what is available for interaction by any given user are already in place.  It has already been mentioned that there are subgroups that are meant only for specific group members, e.g., moderators or owners, or some select list of the group as a whole, and I can't imagine that this isn't implemented by specific inclusion or exclusion of visibility if you don't fit into the list of people who are supposed to have access.

Virtually any group I've ever been a part of has members who, quite appropriately in my view, wish to ask what are occasional off-topic questions to a group of folks they regularly interact with and where they believe they may be able to get a better or more immediate answer by doing so.  Some moderators are much more strict than others about allowing this and some groups have a culture where should someone relatively new break the unwritten "absolutely no off-topic posts, even if noted as such" rule it can get ugly.  A change in presentation for subgroups would make it very easy to add a subgroup dedicated to "idle chatter"/"off-topic questions"/"anything goes [within the bounds of the terms of service]" and get those sorts of things posted there instead of in the main group or other subgroups where it's not appropriate, either.
--
Brian

A lot of what appears to be progress is just so much technological rococo.  ~ Bill Gray


locked Fix link box?

LeeAnne
 

Hello,

Our group uses lots of links and we are having much trouble with membership not being able to figure out how to add an active link.  Many posted links look like this:

https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/post

We keep telling them to add a space to make it active:

https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/post 

However, that is a slow process and even when they have a blue active link in their messages, it sometimes it still doesn't post as active.  Mark in a recent support email you said it might be because members are cutting and pasting from a document or email on a Windows machine. Moderators often do that often as there is such a large amount of often repeated information when new members start posting.  We actually have about three mods whose sole job is to "greet" new members and give them guidance to get started helping their horses.  Is there a better way around doing posting long "form" type messages?  Would copying from a wiki page be better or would that be just as bad because it is still being copied on a PC? 

A How-to Wiki page is being made for members to learn to post links in messages but there are a few bugs that might make life easier for all groups.io users:

1. Is there a way to stop a message from being posted when someone hits "enter" when adding a hyper text link to a message?  If we tell the membership how to make hypertext links, we will likely be overwhelmed with incomplete messages. 

2. Also, Is it possible to not have the text to be linked to auto displayed(?) in the To what URL should this link go field?

It seems like a little thing to remember to do but I'm sure our members will forget to delete the copied Text, and again, links will not work



--

-LeeAnne

ECIR Archivist


locked Footer for messages sent via Actions menu in Members list #suggestion

 

Mark,

I noticed recently that when I (a moderator) send a message to one or more members via the Actions menu in the Members list that the message does not include any of the usual footer info for the group.

I think such messages should contain a subset of the usual group footer, including the custom Message Footer from the group's Settings page.

Excluding:

View This Message (unless there's storage for it on site, but that's a different wishlist item).
Reply to Group
Mute This Topic
Mute Topics tagged with ...

The rest seem reasonable to include


Shal
https://groups.io/g/Group_Help
https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum


locked Bounce-track messages sent via Actions menu in Members list #suggestion

 

Mark,

I noticed recently that when I (a moderator) send a message to one or more members via the Actions menu in the Members list that the message does not appear to include bounce tracking. In particular, rather than an encoding such as seen in a group message, it has:

Return-Path: <noreply@groups.io>
I recommend that these messages be bounce tracked the same as group messages.


Shal
https://groups.io/g/Group_Help
https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum


locked Beta end projection?

 

I have been following this group for quite a while but just joined so I could ask a question. Is there a projection for when the beta period for groups.io will end? I believe there are quite a few Yahoo users who are planning to move their activity here but who are waiting for the time when groups.io is out of beta test.


locked Site Updates #changelog

 

Changes to the site this week:

  • BUGFIX: Activity log recorded member adding themselves when a pending direct add was approved.
  • CHANGE: Direct add notification emails now list the fully qualified group name instead of the relative group name.
  • BUGFIX: Links from +owner message page were incorrect.
  • BUGFIX: Thread summaries were incorrectly truncating multibyte characters.
  • CHANGE: For direct adds of multiple people, only send one added sub notification to moderators.
  • BUGFIX: Convert inline image function crashed when dealing with a message that only had a text/html part.
  • NEW: A plethora of new hashtag colors and a new color picker for selecting them. One might even say a cornucopia of new colors, even.
  • BUGFIX: Bug in code that removed some mail headers. Wouldn't work if the header was the first header in the series. Very rarely triggered.
  • INTERNAL: Switched to Go1.7RC6.
  • SYSADMIN: Using new request contexts to make web server log tracing easier.
  • CHANGE: Sub add notification is sent to moderators after direct adds.
  • CHANGE: Directly added subscriptions now are set to NuM if that's the settings for the group.
  • BUGFIX: We weren't properly escaping backslashes in search queries.

Have a good weekend, everybody!

Mark

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