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locked Re: Changes to beta@ to reduce traffic

 

J, Brian,

Excellent point. I've changed the wording of the group description and welcome message to include:

For general Groups.io questions, please see the groups Group Managers Forum and the Group_Help group. Note: these groups are volunteer-led and are not officially run by Groups.io.

Thanks,
Mark

On Wed, Jul 27, 2016 at 10:32 AM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

I have to second J's concerns here.   From the perspective of a vendor-customer relationship, which Groups.io maintains with users, it is critical that they understand the difference between "turning to the community of users" for help versus employing the vendor's official communication mechanisms.

Believe it or not, I think that Microsoft has done a good job in how they've clearly identified the difference between their official support channels and the extensive assistance available through their user community forums.


--
Brian

A lot of what appears to be progress is just so much technological rococo.  ~ Bill Gray



locked Re: Vacation

Duane
 

On Wed, Jul 27, 2016 at 10:25 am, Mark Fletcher wrote:


I'll be back to normal on 8/10
Um, could you define "normal"? ;>) Have a great time.

Duane


locked Re: Threads -> Topics?

 

Ok, enough! This topic has devolved and I am (manually) locking it. 

I'll be switching all instances of threads to topics on the site. Besides the fact that I think it's more appropriate, both Yahoo and Google groups use the term topic and not thread, and while I don't believe blindly following all their examples is a good idea, in this case it makes sense.

Mark

On Wed, Jul 27, 2016 at 11:42 AM, Brian Vogel <britechguy@...> wrote:

Brenda,

        You wrote, "But because of who I am, and because so many Yahoo users depend on me to help them understand this place, I have to catch up no matter how far I was behind."

        You need to start thinking about how you read rather than getting in high dudgeon when someone points out just exactly how you read.  This is not my problem, but yours, and you are rude about it and always go off in a huff if someone calls you on it.  

         Groups.io is not all about you, for any you, and you consistently seem to believe that your concerns can and should trump those of all others.  You also repeatedly blow in after decisions are long settled and seem to believe that they deserve revisitation because they don't suit you.

         There's nothing personal in the above and I'm not the only one picking up on this.  You really need to consider, and very carefully, how you present yourself here.

--
Brian

A lot of what appears to be progress is just so much technological rococo.  ~ Bill Gray



locked Re: Threads -> Topics?

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

Brenda,

        You wrote, "But because of who I am, and because so many Yahoo users depend on me to help them understand this place, I have to catch up no matter how far I was behind."

        You need to start thinking about how you read rather than getting in high dudgeon when someone points out just exactly how you read.  This is not my problem, but yours, and you are rude about it and always go off in a huff if someone calls you on it.  

         Groups.io is not all about you, for any you, and you consistently seem to believe that your concerns can and should trump those of all others.  You also repeatedly blow in after decisions are long settled and seem to believe that they deserve revisitation because they don't suit you.

         There's nothing personal in the above and I'm not the only one picking up on this.  You really need to consider, and very carefully, how you present yourself here.

--
Brian

A lot of what appears to be progress is just so much technological rococo.  ~ Bill Gray


locked Re: Threads -> Topics?

Nightowl >8#
 

Brian wrote:>>Whether you recognize it or not, coming in here after months away and reviving countless threads, while breathlessly declaring how important you are and your concerns are doesn't make you or your concerns more important than those that were expressed in a timely manner by others.<<

I did not declare I was important.

I declared I was obligated to my Yahoo group.

I'm done with this conversation.

Brenda


locked Re: Changes to beta@ to reduce traffic

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

I have to second J's concerns here.   From the perspective of a vendor-customer relationship, which Groups.io maintains with users, it is critical that they understand the difference between "turning to the community of users" for help versus employing the vendor's official communication mechanisms.

Believe it or not, I think that Microsoft has done a good job in how they've clearly identified the difference between their official support channels and the extensive assistance available through their user community forums.


--
Brian

A lot of what appears to be progress is just so much technological rococo.  ~ Bill Gray


locked Re: Vacation

 

Mark,

Have a good one. You deserve it. :-)
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


locked Re: Changes to beta@ to reduce traffic

 

On Wed, Jul 27, 2016 at 10:18 am, Mark Fletcher wrote:
Or if you have suggestions for how to word things, that would also be appreciated.

Mark,

I think the current language makes it sound like GMF and Group_Help are *the official* Groups.io help forums. Whereas in fact, both technically/officially/commercially has nothing to do with Groups.io. 

"For general Groups.io questions, please see the Group Managers Forum and the Group_Help group"

They are placed in the same paragraph, and on a same plane, with pointers to support and Trello, which *are* official Groups.io entities. As a new user, I would assume they are just as official as support and your Trello page. So I find this misleading.

As a current and up-to-date user, I still find it distressing that they're put on the same plane here. I've always objected to the fact that GMF is completely moderated (Shal knows this, because we've discussed it - I think he's said he's considered switching to using NuM?). I avoid the group because of that. It's fortunate that I usually keep up-to-date enough not to have to ask questions there, and generally only answer questions by others. But I am distressed by now being told by Groups.io officially that general questions should be addressed to these outside groups, with you (i.e., Groups.io itself) not having control over them - or even keeping up to date on the archives, as you just mentioned. Would you yourself, for example, keep that group completely moderated if it were owned by Groups.io?

For suggested language, I would add anything making it absolutely clear that those help groups are not run by Groups.io. I'd have to think about it. Perhaps something like, "..please see the volunteer-run groups GMF and Group_Help. (Note: these groups are volunteer-led and not officially run by Groups.io").

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


locked Re: Vacation

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

Enjoy your trip!!

Having triplet granddaughters along with a slightly older brother, all still under age 10, and having traveled with them but only by car, I will send "strength vibes" your way!!
--
Brian

A lot of what appears to be progress is just so much technological rococo.  ~ Bill Gray


locked Vacation

 

Hi all,

Quick note to say that I'll be on vacation starting this Saturday, 7/30 through Tuesday, 8/9, which means I'll be back to normal on 8/10.

As before, I'll continue to be on pager, monitoring the site and making sure the trains are running on time. I'll just be much slower to respond on email.

This will be the first time we're flying with the twins. Think happy thoughts for us. :-)

Thanks,
Mark


locked Re: Changes to beta@ to reduce traffic

 

On Wed, Jul 27, 2016 at 9:31 AM, J_catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:
On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 08:58 am, Mark Fletcher wrote:
General questions should be redirected to the good folks at Group Managers Forum.

I have one other thought here. I think that if GMF is to be a Groups.io-sanctioned help forum, it should not be moderated. I also think that the moderators should be chosen or approved. by Groups.io. 

I am not on GMF and haven't read the archives, but I trust Shal's judgement in running that group and have no issues with him running a group that is sanctioned by us.

You do bring up a good point, tho. I'm happy to point to other groups as well, and in fact just changed the group description and welcome message to also point to Group_Help (https://groups.io/g/group_help). If there are other groups, please let me know and I'll add pointers to them as well. Or if you have suggestions for how to word things, that would also be appreciated.

Thanks,
Mark


locked Re: Threads -> Topics?

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

On Wed, Jul 27, 2016 at 09:57 am, HR Tech wrote:
last thought: also, if groups.io plans to have additional search features such as : suggested topics, or popular topics, or most active topics etc..you'd need to use the word "topic" as the word "thread" there in that context would feel too technical.

And you've just hit upon something someone I once knew on a forum expressed as, "Context, Context, Context!!"

It's critical, and people should be able to fluidly context switch, and have for a very long time.  I've also seen the phrase, "Recent Discussions," used, which employs neither "thread" nor "topic," but it's abundantly clear to the users of the forums that employ that phrasing what's being identified by it.


--
Brian

A lot of what appears to be progress is just so much technological rococo.  ~ Bill Gray


locked Re: Threads -> Topics?

Maria
 

last thought: also, if groups.io plans to have additional search features such as : suggested topics, or popular topics, or most active topics etc..you'd need to use the word "topic" as the word "thread" there in that context would feel too technical.

Maria


locked Re: Changes to beta@ to reduce traffic

 

On Wed, Jul 27, 2016 at 09:31 am, J_catlady wrote:
moderators should be chosen or approved. by Groups.io.

...besides, of course, Shal, who started the whole thing. :-) 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


locked Re: Changes to beta@ to reduce traffic

 

On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 08:58 am, Mark Fletcher wrote:
General questions should be redirected to the good folks at Group Managers Forum.

I have one other thought here. I think that if GMF is to be a Groups.io-sanctioned help forum, it should not be moderated. I also think that the moderators should be chosen or approved. by Groups.io. 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

I wish I could shut up, but I can't, and I won't. - Desmond Tutu


locked Re: Threads -> Topics?

 

A lot of us have paved the way for several groups, large and small, to come to Groups.io. I spent months talking in depth with the leaders of at least one very large group, allaying their fears about Groups.io, explaining the ins and outs, etc. My animal moderators forum (small by design, now inactive and re-purposed) was created for the express purpose of helping other cats and animals groups come here.

Nobody here is unique in their recruitment or help efforts.

After spending months on offering our input and putting our thinking caps on in service of helping with some feature of the product, it is intensely upsetting when someone - anyone, and I don't care if it's the frigging Desmond Tutu (and don't ask me why he came to mind) - comes in cold asking for (nay, *demanding*) redesign after redesign without considering everyone else's efforts and time. When these requests are granted it makes me far less inclined to try to help in the future here. 

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author. 

It's dumb to buy smart water.


locked Re: Threads -> Topics?

Maria
 

The more I ponder it, the more I feel that Topics view feels better than threads view.

You create a new topic so you should see "topics".

And yes, people may know what a thread is, or they may understand after using the site, but topics just feels a lot more friendly to me.

It's what google groups uses, it's what Y! groups uses, it's what big tent uses. I think for users coming from those platforms it will lessen the learning curve and feel familiar.

I don't like "new post" because a reply is also a new post. There ought to be a distinction and i think new topic does a good job with that.

Maria


locked Re: Threads -> Topics?

Duane
 

On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 12:30 pm, Mark Fletcher wrote:


Quick question: should I change all references on the site from Threads to
Topics?
I can see reasons for both, so will abstain on this one.

Duane


locked Re: Threads -> Topics?

Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 10:06 pm, Nightowl >8# wrote:
So as a rule, I agree. But as the go between for here and the Yahoo community, I haven't got the liberty to ignore what happens in here, since it affects all of us.

But you do have to accept that your input, unless offered when issues are under discussion, will not necessarily have any impact on directions taken or decisions made.

You do not have special rights, and if you absent yourself for a long period of time that's by your own choice regardless of the reason.

Whether you recognize it or not, coming in here after months away and reviving countless threads, while breathlessly declaring how important you are and your concerns are doesn't make you or your concerns more important than those that were expressed in a timely manner by others.  This is something you desperately need to learn, immediately.

"Because of who I am?"   Oh, puhleeeze!!


--
Brian

A lot of what appears to be progress is just so much technological rococo.  ~ Bill Gray


locked Re: Changes to beta@ to reduce traffic

Nightowl >8#
 

Mark Fletcher wrote:>>Thanks. I do want to revisit the Code of Conduct at some point. I tabled it because of the poor reception the subject got here, but I do still think about it.<<

Just let me know if you need me to resend the last version.

I should be able to work on it for you now, because things have settled down some in real life.

Brenda

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