Date   

Re: Free to Premium Expanse #suggestion

 

You might have free groups move to a mid-tier but cheaper group, which would be an increase in revenue, but you'd also have a few premium groups that don't need all the features downgrade to the mid-tier group, which would reduce revenue. If you can think of a setup that would encourage free groups to upgrade but not paid groups to downgrade, that'd be a winner.

JohnF


Re: Free to Premium Expanse #suggestion

Christos G. Psarras
 

While I get the rationale behind the current feature+pricing tier, I also agree that a paid "Basic-Enhanced" plan would be beneficial, both short- and long-term; the reality is the jump from free to $220 is too much for certain types of groups, but a middle step may help to not only attract new groups, but also push existing GIO (new since 8/24) Free groups that want but can't afford the Premium, to move to this plan instead, and who knows, after a while some of them may end up upgrading to Premium after all.
 
And I agree with Bruce, reinstating the features into that new plan would be fast to implement and give new Free groups a more-than-a-month taste of Premium but with a 1 GB leash.
 
Cheers,
Christos
 
 


Re: drafts disappearing - bad #bug

 

There’s possibly another aspect to this that may not have anything to do with the back button. Sometimes, a draft stays I the draft folder even after the message has posted. I noticed a couple of instances this morning but have not yet tried to investigate. I thought I was seeing things at first, but bothe the draft and the posted message were definitely there. I eventually just deleted the draft because the message was there, which was all I cared about by that point. 


On Oct 20, 2020, at 3:42 PM, J_Catlady via groups.io <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

A warning message would be a good stop gap for now. It would have saved me, and no doubt others, a lot of headaches. 



On Oct 20, 2020, at 3:34 PM, Andy Wedge <andy_wedge@...> wrote:

On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 11:25 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
The fact that in some cases drafts are lost if you use the back button I think is pretty bad, unless a warning is issued, which some sites with that problem do.
So, a simple warning message about not using the back button would seem to suffice then.

You don’t expect it in groups.io.
I expect it on any site where I've made some input and knowing that it may happen is more than enough reason for me to just duplicate a tab (or even open a new browser occurrence) and go and do other stuff before coming back to my original tab/page and continuing from where I left off without a problem.

Andy

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Re: Free to Premium Expanse #suggestion

Bruce Bowman
 

What good is 20 GB if it's limited to message attachments? Most of what I've seen discussed in this context is not insufficient storage, but loss of features, specifically files and photos and calendaring. 

If there's going to be an intermediate between Basic and Premium, I think it should remain at 1 GB of storage but reinstate the other features that were removed on August 24. It's already being supported in legacy Basic anyway...most of the additional coding would be limited to shoehorning it into the pricing structure.

Other options strike me as more long-term and unlikely to be implemented before December 15.

Regards,
Bruce


Re: drafts disappearing - bad #bug

 

A warning message would be a good stop gap for now. It would have saved me, and no doubt others, a lot of headaches. 



On Oct 20, 2020, at 3:34 PM, Andy Wedge <andy_wedge@...> wrote:

On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 11:25 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
The fact that in some cases drafts are lost if you use the back button I think is pretty bad, unless a warning is issued, which some sites with that problem do.
So, a simple warning message about not using the back button would seem to suffice then.

You don’t expect it in groups.io.
I expect it on any site where I've made some input and knowing that it may happen is more than enough reason for me to just duplicate a tab (or even open a new browser occurrence) and go and do other stuff before coming back to my original tab/page and continuing from where I left off without a problem.

Andy

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Re: drafts disappearing - bad #bug

Andy Wedge
 

On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 11:25 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
The fact that in some cases drafts are lost if you use the back button I think is pretty bad, unless a warning is issued, which some sites with that problem do.
So, a simple warning message about not using the back button would seem to suffice then.

You don’t expect it in groups.io.
I expect it on any site where I've made some input and knowing that it may happen is more than enough reason for me to just duplicate a tab (or even open a new browser occurrence) and go and do other stuff before coming back to my original tab/page and continuing from where I left off without a problem.

Andy


Re: Free to Premium Expanse #suggestion

Donald Hellen
 

Mark . . .

On Tue, 20 Oct 2020 13:55:12 -0700, "Mark Fletcher"
<markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:

I'm not sure I understand what you're arguing for. Are you saying that the free plan needs to have more storage, so that we'll get more groups (of the kind that will only use our free plan)? Economically, that may work for a business model based on advertising, where absolute numbers of groups/users are most important. But that's not us.
I'm not sure that most of his post explained it well, but I think he
was suggesting a plan between premium and basic. Maybe call it
enhanced (doesn't matter what to call it). Charge perhaps $5/mo for
5GB. Or instead you could make it a 10GB plan for the mid-grade one,
and charge $10. I don't think you need an infinite number of steps
between premium and basic, but I've read many posts elsewhere that
said they'd like to se an "in-between" plan that gives more than basic
but less than premium.

The problem is if you offer such a plan and it turns out it didn't
work out well, do you eliminate the middle tier plan or grandfather
then in and just no longer offer it.

I'm not suggesting an exact price nor how much storage or which
features to offer for how much. The above were just examples.

Donald


----------------------------------------------------
Some ham radio groups you may be interested in:
https://groups.io/g/ICOM https://groups.io/g/Ham-Antennas
https://groups.io/g/HamRadioHelp https://groups.io/g/Baofeng
https://groups.io/g/CHIRP https://rf-amplifiers.groups.io/g/main


Re: drafts disappearing - bad #bug

 

The fact that in some cases drafts are lost if you use the back button I think is pretty bad, unless a warning is issued, which some sites with that problem do. You don’t expect it in groups.io.


On Oct 20, 2020, at 3:21 PM, Andy Wedge <andy_wedge@...> wrote:

On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 06:31 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
However, not using the back button is going to be really cumbersome.
There are plenty of sites where using the back button causes problems, especially e-commerce sites when online payments are being made. For that reason I just right-click the browser tab for the page I'm on, duplicate it to start with and then navigate elsewhere on the new tab. Then I always have the original tab & page to go back to and in the case of Groups.io, I have never lost a Draft message using FF.  I don't see this as a big problem myself.

Andy

--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Re: drafts disappearing - bad #bug

Andy Wedge
 

On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 06:31 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
However, not using the back button is going to be really cumbersome.
There are plenty of sites where using the back button causes problems, especially e-commerce sites when online payments are being made. For that reason I just right-click the browser tab for the page I'm on, duplicate it to start with and then navigate elsewhere on the new tab. Then I always have the original tab & page to go back to and in the case of Groups.io, I have never lost a Draft message using FF.  I don't see this as a big problem myself.

Andy


Re: Groups.io Mobile App Update #misc

 

On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 1:35 PM RCardona <genealogy1750@...> wrote:
Has there been any update on when the Groups.io mobile app will transition from testing to active usage?
_

I suggest joining the app subgroup. The app is still being developed. We just rolled out the ability to approve/reject pending messages.

Thanks,
Mark


Re: Free to Premium Expanse #suggestion

 

I'm not sure I understand what you're arguing for. Are you saying that the free plan needs to have more storage, so that we'll get more groups (of the kind that will only use our free plan)? Economically, that may work for a business model based on advertising, where absolute numbers of groups/users are most important. But that's not us. 

Thanks,
Mark

On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 1:34 PM billsf9c via groups.io <OOWONBS=Netscape.net@groups.io> wrote:
Maybe a better title is;
Losing Ground to #Google.

A treasurer-CoOwner informed me that he wrote IO, suggesting an intermediate step between 1 & 20 Gigs.

He WANTS to contribute to IO, and see it continue, but feels the 1 to 20 Gig jump is excessive. I don't feel it's due to cost, although that must be attached to the issue.

It may be an accounting matter. Accepting under 20$ / month (an option over annual payment,) is probably burdensome. An increment between might be at 5 Gigs, but not allow monthly payments. Maybe no Premium add-ons would be allowed.

IO has 4 levels. That's hard to put on a bell-curve. Even a graph seems unsmooth.

But I hugely fear that despite a comparable sized and active list of 2000, actually TWO, this size, I feel 1 has and 1 is goingnto google because they cannot see that Free will contain them for 4-6 more years.

They see 15 GIGS FREE.

IO is "Good Enough."
But "Perception is Reality."

You gotta compete.
As anoast communications security guy, I watched google and email services. I watched the "memory allowed.per account," almost explode. And things related to that and google that I shant discuss.

Almost NO group will use 5 Gigs or 10.or 15 for decades. Yes, some movie.or photo group will. Block movies.over 5 megs???

There will alwys be that one guy at the all-you-can eat that's a small problem. But the all-you-can-eat is up on a billboard next door to your burger joint.

Consider, with yahoo again poised, what you will lose, permanently, if you wait a month to set an upgraded policy. From my perspective you are a mom'n pop competing with McDonalds. You'll always have us... buy wouldn't you like some of them? I cannot sway groups because members cannot WILL not take time to understand the nuance.

They see 1 and they see 15 and they see $220. And they don't understand. GIVE them 15 Gigs and they won't use them in their lifetime... except that 1 big guy. He is the cost of doing business and he's 1 guy in a hundred... a thousand. Time to go all-in. Don't have 15 G for everyone? You don't order more meat until the fridge is low.

You're Great!
But you also have to COMPETE.

Diesel is great - but it's not easy to find a pump at Joe's Diner is whatever that town was when you were lost, once, 20 years ago - so you bought a gasser. Diesel, all but locked out.because the signs don't SAY diesel available soon. I can think of all.sorts of ways to sell this an an Intro offer and leverage it.

C'mon! Google will be around, but give them a rash, eh? Chafe their dang derrier!

Don't wait a dang month...! A week is enough time to not have to shoot entirely from the hip. Time to play with the big boys... on their turf. (The sloth have a name?)

With great appreciation,
BillSF9c


Groups.io Mobile App Update #misc

RCardona
 

Has there been any update on when the Groups.io mobile app will transition from testing to active usage?


Free to Premium Expanse #suggestion

billsf9c
 

Maybe a better title is;
Losing Ground to #Google.

A treasurer-CoOwner informed me that he wrote IO, suggesting an intermediate step between 1 & 20 Gigs.

He WANTS to contribute to IO, and see it continue, but feels the 1 to 20 Gig jump is excessive. I don't feel it's due to cost, although that must be attached to the issue.

It may be an accounting matter. Accepting under 20$ / month (an option over annual payment,) is probably burdensome. An increment between might be at 5 Gigs, but not allow monthly payments. Maybe no Premium add-ons would be allowed.

IO has 4 levels. That's hard to put on a bell-curve. Even a graph seems unsmooth.

But I hugely fear that despite a comparable sized and active list of 2000, actually TWO, this size, I feel 1 has and 1 is goingnto google because they cannot see that Free will contain them for 4-6 more years.

They see 15 GIGS FREE.

IO is "Good Enough."
But "Perception is Reality."

You gotta compete.
As anoast communications security guy, I watched google and email services. I watched the "memory allowed.per account," almost explode. And things related to that and google that I shant discuss.

Almost NO group will use 5 Gigs or 10.or 15 for decades. Yes, some movie.or photo group will. Block movies.over 5 megs???

There will alwys be that one guy at the all-you-can eat that's a small problem. But the all-you-can-eat is up on a billboard next door to your burger joint.

Consider, with yahoo again poised, what you will lose, permanently, if you wait a month to set an upgraded policy. From my perspective you are a mom'n pop competing with McDonalds. You'll always have us... buy wouldn't you like some of them? I cannot sway groups because members cannot WILL not take time to understand the nuance.

They see 1 and they see 15 and they see $220. And they don't understand. GIVE them 15 Gigs and they won't use them in their lifetime... except that 1 big guy. He is the cost of doing business and he's 1 guy in a hundred... a thousand. Time to go all-in. Don't have 15 G for everyone? You don't order more meat until the fridge is low.

You're Great!
But you also have to COMPETE.

Diesel is great - but it's not easy to find a pump at Joe's Diner is whatever that town was when you were lost, once, 20 years ago - so you bought a gasser. Diesel, all but locked out.because the signs don't SAY diesel available soon. I can think of all.sorts of ways to sell this an an Intro offer and leverage it.

C'mon! Google will be around, but give them a rash, eh? Chafe their dang derrier!

Don't wait a dang month...! A week is enough time to not have to shoot entirely from the hip. Time to play with the big boys... on their turf. (The sloth have a name?)

With great appreciation,
BillSF9c


Re: drafts disappearing - bad #bug

 

On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 12:53 PM, Jim Fisher wrote:
Why don't you use a simple text editor such as Notepad instead of Word?
Shouldn't even have to do that. Let's just hope Mark finds a way to fix the bug.
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Re: drafts disappearing - bad #bug

 

Why don't you use a simple text editor such as Notepad instead of Word? No
formatting problems then because there's no formatting.

Jim Fisher

On 20 Oct 2020 at 6:16, J_Catlady wrote:

I did end up having to copy/paste a word doc last night
(which results in formatting issues).


Re: drafts disappearing - bad #bug

 

The real problem is the inconsistent behavior. If we leave the site entirely, the draft gets saved. And we (users) have become accustomed to that. So when we don't even leave the site and do something as simple as go to another page, and use the back button, who's going to expect that the draft disappears? Not me. Either ditch the whole draft-saving mechanism or fix it so that drafts get saved regardless of what other actions are taken, including innocently using the back button. Users should not have to know that they have to open other windows to make sure their draft is saved. Etc
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Re: drafts disappearing - bad #bug

 

Please, don't give Mark any ideas. All of that is cumbersome. We need this fixed. ;)
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Re: drafts disappearing - bad #bug

SBL webmaster
 

J_Catlady wrote:
Good to know. However, not using the back button is going to be really
cumbersome. Imagine you're writing a long, complex reply, and you have
to go out of your draft several times to look something up on the site.
There should never be a need to leave the draft page to look something up.
All of the major browsers support multiple tabs, so if you need to look
something up, you can either:

- Open a new blank tab; on most browsers, this is Ctrl-T on the keyboard,
or click on the "+" next to the last open tab at the top of the window.

- Open a link on the current page in a new tab; on most browsers, this is
right-click on the link and type "t", or select "Open link in new tab"
in the pop-up menu.

-- Dave Tweed
(long-time lurker)


Re: drafts disappearing - bad #bug

 

On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 10:12 AM, Duane wrote:
I'm using FF, so I think this may be the biggy.  I've never seen the problem, but always go through the Drafts option on the left menu to get to one
Good to know. However, not using the back button is going to be really cumbersome. Imagine you're writing a long, complex reply, and you have to go out of your draft several times to look something up on the site. It is going to be very unintuitive to have to remember to repeatedly go to the Drafts tab instead of back to where you were. So I hope Mark comes up with one of his whiz-bang solutions soon. :)
 
--
J

Messages are the sole opinion of the author, especially the fishy ones.
My humanity is bound up in yours, for we can only be human together. - Desmond Tutu


Re: drafts disappearing - bad #bug

Duane
 

On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 11:43 AM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
Don't use the back button to return to a draft reply.
I'm using FF, so I think this may be the biggy.  I've never seen the problem, but always go through the Drafts option on the left menu to get to one.

Thanks,
Duane