moderated Re: Premium groups now have more storage, basic group subgroups change

It would appear my primary stated concerns remain unresolved.

See my response,, "So what would be the appropriate sequence and timing to (1) create a new free group to receive the information presently in a Premium subgroup such that (2) transfer of such content is not lost when exercising the option to downgrade from Premium to free status at the end of the present paid period?  Is there a way for a list owner to do such transfer within present tools/procedures?

Mark responded,, "Not sure I understand. You want to take an existing subgroup and make it a stand alone group? That feature doesn't presently exist.”

I responded,, "I was responding to your statements to Samuel Murray today:

"On Sat, Jan 11, 2020 at 12:46 AM Samuel Murray <samuelmurray@...> wrote:

What would happen (from now on) to subgroups in groups who are premium 
for a while and then changes to non-premium?  Will it be a loophole in 
the system that you can create subgroups by paying for 1 month premium?

The subgroups will be deleted, after a delay to ensure that the downgrade wasn't an inadvertent mistake on the part of the group owner.”

Your comment above is my first indication that my existing subgroup established under the temporary “Premium” membership purchased to get my groups transferred from Yahoo would disappear if and when we exercised the promised option to revert to a free group, i.e that it would not be “grandfathered”.

As you say, that feature may not have existed because there was no need for it.  Since you now appear to have above defined a “new consideration”, my current response would seem both reasonable and appropriate.”


Any group that is created before this coming Wednesday at 9AM Pacific Time will continue to have the ability to create           subgroups, regardless of whether they are basic or premium. Does that answer your question?

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In a word, no.  I am not concerned with the ability to create subgroups being “grandfathered”.  You have made that clear.  

Your recent pronouncement/interpretation that a group choosing to to “revert” to “free” (non-premium) status at then end of a “Premium” period must accept deletion “after a delay to ensure that the downgrade wasn't an inadvertent mistake on the part of the group owner” raises a new concern, that of ongoing survivability of any subgroups thus created.  

I have been on since November and yesterday is my first awareness of such retroactive intent.  To my knowledge this was not mentioned in earlier discussions addressing a “Premium” group’s right to revert to a “free” group.  Please consider:

Fact 1:  We who purchased a year of “premium” status to get one or more groups transferred from Yahoo were promised the option to revert to “free” status at the end of the (paid) year.
Fact 2:  Once my main group was “up and running” I exercised my “Premium” option to create a subgroup.  I then requested transfer everything (except members) from another Yahoo Group, and made all members of the main group members of the subgroup.  Fact 3:  This subgroup transfer was done without further charge and successfully accomplished.  

For to retroactively impose a requirement of ongoing “Premium” membership to preserve existing subgroups does not seem ethical.  The ability of a “free” group to create subgroups means nothing if one must maintain “Premium” status to preserve them.  Such subgroups should be “grandfathered”.

Fact 4:  Of late it has been suggested that it is only a matter of time before a 1GB data limit applicable to the combined “storage” of a main group AND it’s subgroups, i.e. “collectively” be imposed; the present reality of each group and each subgroup having individual 1GB data limits being the result of ongoing difficulties of implementation, . 
Fact 5:   Anyone at present can create a new “free” group at any time with a 1GB data limit.  Accordingly I would ask:

Are our respective existing 1 GB data limits “grandfathered” against retroactive change?  I am concerned that any .5 GB data ”budget" limit thus retroactively imposed on one group with a subgroup could threaten the ability of each to function in the long term.  If not, I have stated a desire to create a new “free” group with its own 1 GB data limit with the intent of moving everything presently in my existing functional subgroup to it.  That would (a) assure each group would survive, and (b) have their own 1 GB data limit.  

Alternately, perhaps another 1GB data could be made available at nominal annual expense for “free” groups needing it. 




On Jan 14, 2020, at 5:32 AM, Duane <txpigeon@...> wrote:

On Tue, Jan 14, 2020 at 05:12 AM, Samuel Murray wrote:
Do I understand correctly that if a basic group buys 1 month premium, they can create subgroups, and these subgroups do not disappear when they revert to basic again?
According to Mark's earlier statement,, the subgroup(s) would be deleted after a short delay.  If it were me, I'd probably not allow subgroups to be created unless it was at least a one year premium upgrade.  I think that would be a better signal of intentions.  Or maybe only after a month-to-month upgrade has been in effect for 3 months or more?  I know there are some folks that can't justify an annual payment in their budget.


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