Fix working in section on hashtags wrt "moderated"


 

 

In the section "Creating a Hashtag," all the descriptions of hashtag attributes - with the exception of Locked, which reads "Select this checkbox to immediately lock topics that are created with this hashtag" -  all the descriptions (somewhat) incorrectly, or vaguely, refer to "messages marked with a hashtag," rather than topics marked with a hashtag. Only topics can have hashtags applied to them (the term "marked with"  is vague).

In particular, "Moderated" says "Select this checkbox if you want messages tagged with this hashtag to be moderated."

It should read "Select this checkbox if you want replies to topics tagged with this hashtag to be moderated."

Currently, this hashtag also makes the very first message of the topic go through moderation, i.e., the topic is moderated even before the first message in it exists (creating something of an existential or chronological conundrum). I have posted this as a bug in beta and await Mark's response. Apparently some people in beta think "Moderated" refers to a "moderated hashtag"; i.e., they (incorrectly) think the hashtag itself is moderated (although only topics can be moderated), and they have been exploiting this bug to restrict use of the hashtag itself. On the basis of that misusage, they've argued against my bug report. If Mark decides NOT to fix the bug (or feature, depending on your POV), the documentation should make clear that even the first message of the topic will be moderated if such a hashtag is applied to it. Otherwise, if he does fix it, the wording should be changed to refer only to replies.


 

excuse the typo in the title - don't try to figure it out (it's just a typo;)

On Fri, Nov 5, 2021 at 7:47 AM J_Catlady via groups.io <j.olivia.catlady=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:

 

In the section "Creating a Hashtag," all the descriptions of hashtag attributes - with the exception of Locked, which reads "Select this checkbox to immediately lock topics that are created with this hashtag" -  all the descriptions (somewhat) incorrectly, or vaguely, refer to "messages marked with a hashtag," rather than topics marked with a hashtag. Only topics can have hashtags applied to them (the term "marked with"  is vague).

In particular, "Moderated" says "Select this checkbox if you want messages tagged with this hashtag to be moderated."

It should read "Select this checkbox if you want replies to topics tagged with this hashtag to be moderated."

Currently, this hashtag also makes the very first message of the topic go through moderation, i.e., the topic is moderated even before the first message in it exists (creating something of an existential or chronological conundrum). I have posted this as a bug in beta and await Mark's response. Apparently some people in beta think "Moderated" refers to a "moderated hashtag"; i.e., they (incorrectly) think the hashtag itself is moderated (although only topics can be moderated), and they have been exploiting this bug to restrict use of the hashtag itself. On the basis of that misusage, they've argued against my bug report. If Mark decides NOT to fix the bug (or feature, depending on your POV), the documentation should make clear that even the first message of the topic will be moderated if such a hashtag is applied to it. Otherwise, if he does fix it, the wording should be changed to refer only to replies.


Malcolm Austen
 

On Fri, 05 Nov 2021 14:47:40 -0000, J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

 

In the section "Creating a Hashtag," all the descriptions of hashtag attributes - with the exception of Locked, which reads "Select this checkbox to immediately lock topics that are created with this hashtag" -  all the descriptions (somewhat) incorrectly, or vaguely, refer to "messages marked with a hashtag," rather than topics marked with a hashtag. Only topics can have hashtags applied to them (the term "marked with"  is vague).

In particular, "Moderated" says "Select this checkbox if you want messages tagged with this hashtag to be moderated."

It should read "Select this checkbox if you want replies to topics tagged with this hashtag to be moderated."


No! That reflects how you would like it to work. 

The docs should reflect the current behaviour which is  "Select this checkbox if you want all future messages tagged with this hashtag to be moderated." - that's essentially the same as the current text as past messages have gone through (or bypassed) moderation. And it is messages, not topics, here as it (currently, and hopefully will continue to) applies to messages that would start a new topic. 

Malcolm.


Currently, this hashtag also makes the very first message of the topic go through moderation, i.e., the topic is moderated even before the first message in it exists (creating something of an existential or chronological conundrum). I have posted this as a bug in beta and await Mark's response. Apparently some people in beta think "Moderated" refers to a "moderated hashtag"; i.e., they (incorrectly) think the hashtag itself is moderated (although only topics can be moderated), and they have been exploiting this bug to restrict use of the hashtag itself. On the basis of that misusage, they've argued against my bug report. If Mark decides NOT to fix the bug (or feature, depending on your POV), the documentation should make clear that even the first message of the topic will be moderated if such a hashtag is applied to it. Otherwise, if he does fix it, the wording should be changed to refer only to replies.




--
Malcolm Austen - email: malcolm.austen@...


 

On Fri, Nov 5, 2021 at 08:02 AM, Malcolm Austen wrote:
 
No! That reflects how you would like it to work.
No, that is how it logically *should* work. The current behavior is a bug. You are exploiting the bug.
It's a bug because

(1) hashtags are not moderated. Logically, and conceptually, topics are the only objects that can be moderated.

(2) If hashtags marked as "Locked" were to work the same way, then if you tried to create a topic with a hashtag marked "Locked," even the first message of the topic would not go through because the topic would be locked before it even existed. And that is not how it works. Only replies to a topic bearing a hashtag marked as "Locked" do not go through.

The current behavior is existentially, logically, and chronologically wrong.

But this is not the place to argue the feature. Please reread my message. I've explained therein that this is awaiting Mark's decision on the functionality. And Nina is not going to make any change without consulting Mark.


 

if Locked behaved analogously to the way Moderated currently does, even the first message in the topic would be locked out of existence because the topic would be locked before it's even created and the first message itself would bounce. These attributes apply only to replies within the topic, or should. Locked behaves correctly. Moderated does not.


Malcolm Austen
 

On Fri, 05 Nov 2021 16:04:40 -0000, J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

On Fri, Nov 5, 2021 at 08:02 AM, Malcolm Austen wrote:
 
No! That reflects how you would like it to work.
No, that is how it logically *should* work. The current behavior is a bug. You are exploiting the bug. 

My argument here is simply that the docs should reflect the current behaviour.

Malcolm.

--
Malcolm Austen - email: malcolm.austen@...


 

Re documentation reflecting current behavior: (1) it doesn’t, really, because it doesn’t make clear that even the first message itself is moderated (and that’s unintuitive and inconsistent with Locked, so needs to be clarified); and 2) the current behavior may change soon anyway since I’ve recently reported this as a bug.


On Nov 5, 2021, at 10:18 AM, Malcolm Austen <malcolm.austen@...> wrote:

 On Fri, 05 Nov 2021 16:04:40 -0000, J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:

On Fri, Nov 5, 2021 at 08:02 AM, Malcolm Austen wrote:
 
No! That reflects how you would like it to work.
No, that is how it logically *should* work. The current behavior is a bug. You are exploiting the bug. 

My argument here is simply that the docs should reflect the current behaviour.

Malcolm.

--
Malcolm Austen - email: malcolm.austen@...