Date   

Re: Posting rate limit

 

On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 11:10 AM John Pearce <jponsalt@...> wrote:
Interesting, I didn't know about this.  Can you tell us what happens?  Are the posts returned to sender explaining why?  Just tossed in the bit bucket?

They are bounced back with the following message:

"We have received more than 40 messages in 30 minutes from you. To guard against autoresponder mail loops, we must reject additional messages from you temporarily. Please try again later."


Mark


Re: Posting rate limit

John Pearce <jponsalt@...>
 

Interesting, I didn't know about this.  Can you tell us what happens?  Are the posts returned to sender explaining why?  Just tossed in the bit bucket?

Thanks

John


Posting rate limit

Bruce Bowman
 

There is a hard rate limit per account of not more than 40 message posts in 30 minutes. https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/8326

I was unable to find this in the new help center.

FYI,
Bruce


Additional Member Manual Suggestions

Duane
 

Based on PDF dated May 15, 2020

I believe the information pages, currently numbered 9-85, should be renumbered 1-77, while leaving the previous numbers as i-viii.  This would follow a more standard method of numbering pages.  Acrobat handles this by showing the defined page number as well as the overall page number.

3.5
Header (Joining a group by email) has a bunch of links attached.

[groupname]+subscribe@groups.io has a link (subscribe@groups.io)

14
Add to note
From the directory, you can send an email to another member. Limited to 2 per day to a specific person, 10 per day total per group. (ref https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/16607)

17.5
Where it says "changing the owner (owners or moderators only)," is currently incorrect due to a bug, https://beta.groups.io/g/main/topic/70995249  The member that uploaded the photo can change ownership to someone else.

17.10
Header has extra spaces before "Deleting Albums".


Re: documentation of filesize limitation

Jay Elvove
 

Thank you. I notice that the filesize limits have also been boosted. Thanks very much for that as well. 


Re: Corrections to Members Manual

Nina E
 

> More suggestions, using the April 17 version of the PDF,

Hi, Duane. The May 1 release incorporates those suggestions.

Thank you, as always, for the feedback!

- Nina


Re: Possible Missing Section

Nina E
 

> A query on GMF made me have a look at the Members Manuals; there is nothing there about members being removed for marking a message as spam.

As of the May 1 release, the members manual contains this topic: https://groups.io/helpcenter/membersmanual/1/working-with-group-messages/responding-to-a-you-have-been-removed

I also added a link to the "Removed for spam" GMF wiki page to all of the documents.

Thank you for the feedback!

- Nina


Re: Suggestions for Owners Manual

Nina E
 

Most of the items mentioned in this topic are incorporated as of the May 1 release of the owners manual. (Threading algorithm documentation is TBS.)

Thank you for the feedback!

- Nina


Re: documentation of filesize limitation

Nina E
 

> I looked at all three PDF manuals today and couldn't find a reference in any of them to an actual size limitation when uploading files to groups.io.

The recently updated (per https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/24816) file and photo size limits are now documented (as of the May 1 release) in the owners manual and members manual.

Thank you for the feedback!

- Nina


Re: Suggestions for Owners Manual

Duane
 

23.3.1
Need to add a Note: The 20 people per 24 hour limit also applies to Direct Adds, https://groups.io/helpcenter/ownersmanual/1/inviting-people-to-join-a-group/inviting-more-than-20-people-at-a

Duane


documentation of filesize limitation

Jay Elvove
 

I looked at all three PDF manuals today and couldn't find a reference in any of them to an actual size limitation when uploading files to groups.io.  I was looking for an actual number, because when I tried unsuccessfully to copy a 250mb zip archive containing over 80 individual files (mostly PDFs and JPGs) documenting the history of our neighborhood, I received an error stating that the file was too large.  The error message actually appeared at the end of the transfer once the file had actually been processed, not in the beginning when attempting the upload.  As a result, I waited, and it turns out also wasted, several minutes assuming that the upload would complete successfully.

I put in a support request, and I was informed that individual files cannot exceed approximately 100mb.  This figure should be included prominently in your documentation.  It was frustrating to be unable to find the number easily, and there seems to be a lot of confusion about it on the support forums as well.  Also -- and this is a comment, not a documentation issue -- in my opinion, that number is way too small by today's standards.  We are currently paying for significantly more storage than that, and I would request that groups.io seriously consider significantly increasing this limit.

I look forward to seeing both a change in documentation to reflect the filesize limitation and, hopefully, a significant increase in that size limit.

Despite all this, I'm a big fan of groups.io, which is why I took the time to document the issue in the first place.


Re: Suggestions for Owners Manual

Andy Wedge
 

in addition, I can't see any reference to the threading algorithm as described in the GMF Wiki

 

Andy


Suggestions for Owners Manual

Duane
 

Referencing PDF updated April 17, 2020:

3
step 5 table
under Visibility, move headers Visibility option | Description to next pag with table.

step 6
change "...the default timezone is U.S./Canada Pacific Time (UTC-08:00)." to "...the default timezone is U.S./Canada Pacific Time (UTC-08:00 or -07:00 depending on DST)." (or something similar)

4.2
Change "Your changes will not take effect until you click that button." to "Your changes will not take effect, nor be remembered, unless you click that button."

4.3.3
in Tip, change "...use appropriate keywords in the first few lines of the group title..." to "use appropriate keywords in the group title..."

4.6.1
maybe add Note: Using this setting may result in lots of spam going into the pending (moderated) list.

4.6.4
Second Option, add "A copy of the original message is held online as a draft for editing and the bouce message will include a link to it."

4.8.2
May want to expand Note to say that Subject Tag is not automatically changed if the Groupname is changed.

4.9.8
Heading should be moved to next page with table.

6
In table, under "Delete the image on the group's home page", change to "The image is removed and replaced with the site default."

Under "Delete the icon displayed on mobile devices and on members’ Feed pages" change to "The image is removed and replaced with the site default."

7.2
Under "Active Message", some notice types don't have this check box - Direct Add, Group Guidelines, Invite, and Note To Member and must be selected when that function is used, if desired.

7.11
Under Tips, link to https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum/wiki/Pending-Subscription---Generic-Template%28s%29 is broken

9.1
In table: blue B (bouncing) icon is incorrect, Moderate First icon is wrong, Not Confirmed has wrong icon, New Member Moderated has wrong icon, Owner icon is wrong.

9.2
Not Confirmed icon is wrong.

11.2
Step 2 has weird image.

11.3
Add Note: You cannot split the first message displayed on the page.  If you've elected to sort by newest first (Date), this will prevent you from splitting off the most recent message.  Clicking on Date will move it to the bottom of the page where it can be split.

11.5
Change last sentence of first paragraph to "Members who send replies via email to a locked topic receive an automatic notice that the topic is locked."

16.1
In Note, change to "In groups that have subgroups, each subgroup has the same amount of allotted storage space as its parent group."

16.4
Bullet 3, change to "Subgroup in a group: Select Usage."

The two above are because Basic groups created before January 15, 2020 may have subgroups.

Page 86 is blank

17.2.2
Might add Warning: Anyone with the generated email address can post to the group using it.

18
Last sentence, change to "...ensure that your group’s title or description include..."

20.2
Beside Member List, add (Much more extensive information than downloaded Member List.)

Need a section on downgrading a group.  Maybe change 22 to "Upgrading or Downgrading Your Group" and add subsections.

23.2.2
Add Note: after creating the first subgroup, there will be a delay while the DNS information is updated before the parent and subgroups are again available, typically a few minutes.

23.3.3
Wrong badge displayed for Not Confirmed.

25.2
Step 4, bullet 4 has the wrong badge for blue B.

As always, thanks for all the work on getting this done.

Duane


Re: 2FA recovery inconsistent on site and in manual

Christopher Warrington
 

On 2020-04-21 at 11:56 AM, Mark Fletcher <markf@corp.groups.io> wrote:
Yes, via support, we can disable two factor authentication for people
who did not save their backup codes and who can no longer authenticate.

Nina, can you update the manual?
The manual already says that support can help. It's the Two-Factor Authentication account settings page (https://groups.io/account?page=security) on the site that says otherwise.


Possible Missing Section

Chris Jones
 

A query on GMF made me have a look at the Members Manuals; there is nothing there about members being removed for marking a message as spam. The Owners Manual does have a section about it, specifically 9.9.

People being "dismembered" is a fairly common occurrence so IMO there does need something in the Members Manual to explain it.

It is a more than somewhat complicated subject, and it might be worth you considering linking to the GMF wiki about it, at least as an interim measure.

Nina; I see that you have added a link back to the Owners Manual from the GMF wiki and that there is an FAQ item about the problem in the Help Centre (yes; I'm in the UK!) but links from the Manuals (both versions) back to the GMF wiki might help people.

IMO the FAQ is unlikely to the the first port of call for those affected; the manuals are a more probable destination. 

Chris


Re: 2FA recovery inconsistent on site and in manual

 

On Sat, Apr 18, 2020 at 2:44 PM Christopher Warrington <lists@...> wrote:

The member manual and the Two-Factor Authentication account settings page
page do not agree on whether accounts with 2FA are recoverable or not. This
is leading to some confusion about whether a group owner should recommend
that one if their members who has lost their 2FA device needs to create a
new account or needs to contact support.

In the member manual under "Setting up two-factor authentication" [1], says
that support@groups.io can help recover an account:

> Note: If the authentication code is lost (for example, if a device is
> reset to factory settings), you will need to contact Groups.io Support to
> be able to log in.

Yes, via support, we can disable two factor authentication for people who did not save their backup codes and who can no longer authenticate. 

Nina, can you update the manual?

Thanks,
Mark


Re: Corrections to Members Manual

Duane
 

On Sat, Apr 18, 2020 at 09:43 AM, Nina E wrote:
These corrections and additions are in the April 17 Help Center update.
More suggestions, using the April 17 version of the PDF, section numbers used:

2.1
should be
All of the step-by-step instructions (insert of)

2.2
should be
[name _of_ group owner or moderator]
from [name if group owner or moderator]

3.1
add  The group owner will select a default delivery method for messages that you may opt to change.

3.7
orphan "websites" at the end.

4.3.2
Step 2
On the resulting Log In page, enter your email address, then click the Email me a link to log in button.

4.4.2
unneeded table header under Note:

4.4.3
under HTML: Select this editor
add Note: If you join a group that is set to Plain Text Only by the owner, your message composition window will not use the HTML editor.

4.7
incomplete  add step 4. After clicking Delete My Account you will need to type in "I understand" (without quotes) to verify deletion of the account, then click Delete My Account.

5.2
Example: text needs to move to next page with image.

5.3
Approvals needed column doesn't show for members, only owner/mods.

7.2
Individual Messages  You receive each message individually as soon as it is posted to the group. (This setting is the default.)
Need explanation (note above table?) that each group owner can set the default delivery for their group.

Also, some options may not be available, depending on group settings, i.e. Plain Digest.

7.4
Header needs moved to next page

8.1
should be
the topic is displayed with the initial message at the top of the page and replies expanded underneath it unless you have elected to use reverse date order by clicking on the Date heading.

8.3
header should be "or reply to existing messages"  (cannot reply to topic, only message)

remove section about "To reply to an existing topic on the group’s website"

8.4
add Note: If you create too many drafts, you will get a notice at the top of the page that you must delete some before more can be saved.

8.5
in Tips  AND is implied if you use more than one word in the search box.

9.1
add octothorp as a name for the symbol

10.3
change last sentence to "could be used later in topics that might be of interest to you." (remove 'not')

11.3
Shortcut, click on the date that you want an Event to start or occur.

section 3 table  Back | if you change your mind about adding an event

11.4  Check with Mark to see if access to Zoom will be removed from Basic groups after the Covid-19 pandemic as originally intended.  Add Note: if so.

11.9.7
step 3  should be "(nor add..."

13.3.4
Date "...use to select a date or it may be entered directly."
Time "...that contains 30-minute time increments or it may be entered directly."
Address "...a separate tab or window for that location only."

14
Note: Only those that have chosen to make their profile visible can see other members that have opted to be included in the directory.

16
NC badge, remove ", or after a moderator has approved the membership in a restricted group," (not true)

17.5
"...to: changing the owner,..." add "...owner (group owner/mod only),..."

19.6.2
Example: should be moved to next page with image

22.2.3
Example: should be moved to next page with image

22.3.3
"if your email application automatically adds links to..." should be "if your email application automatically creates links from..."

22.3.6
Formatted (HTML) example: should be moved to next page with image

Some of these also apply to the Owner Manual, but I haven't been through it completely yet.

Thanks,
Duane


2FA recovery inconsistent on site and in manual

Christopher Warrington
 

The member manual and the Two-Factor Authentication account settings page
page do not agree on whether accounts with 2FA are recoverable or not. This
is leading to some confusion about whether a group owner should recommend
that one if their members who has lost their 2FA device needs to create a
new account or needs to contact support.

In the member manual under "Setting up two-factor authentication" [1], says
that support@groups.io can help recover an account:

Note: If the authentication code is lost (for example, if a device is
reset to factory settings), you will need to contact Groups.io Support to
be able to log in.
Contrast this with the Two-Factor Authentication account settings page [2]:

Groups.io Support cannot restore access to accounts with two-factor
authentication enabled for security reasons. Saving your recovery codes in
a safe place can help keep you from being locked out of your account.
Hat tip to Chris Jones on GMF for noticing this. [3]

[1]: https://groups.io/helpcenter/membersmanual/1/understanding-groups-io-accounts/setting-account-preferences-and-viewing-account-information
[2]: https://groups.io/account?page=security
[3]: https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum/message/31223

--
Christopher W. <lists@cw.codes>


Re: Help Center is complete

Nina E
 

> Are these going to be Controlled Documents, meaning that any amendments don't just simply "happen" but that they are actively recorded in an Amendments Log, perhaps at the back of the documents?

As of the April 17 release of the Help Center, the Owners Manual, Members Manual, and FAQ each contains a Revision history topic at the end.

- Nina


Re: Email delivery options query

Nina E
 

Thanks, Andy and Duane. I corrected the No Email setting documentation for the April 17 Help Center update.

- Nina

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