Date   

Groups.io Members Manual - contradictory text

Andy Wedge
 

Hi Mark,

section Joining subgroups (3.6 in the PDF version) states that a subgroup typically contains a subset of the members of the parent (primary) group.  I think the use of the word typically at this point implies that it does always have to be the case. This is then contradicted by the following sentence which states that: for you to be a member of a subgroup, you must first be a member of the parent group (my use of bold).

I think removing the 'and typically' part of the second sentence here would retain the facts and aid clarity.

Regards,
Andy


Help centre links and more images please

Andy Wedge
 

Hi Mark,

well done everyone involved in getting this together.

I think it would be good to include more screenshot images as these would break up the pages of pure text and for those that prefer a more visual style of learning it would make it easier to follow.

There are document links that take you from one place in a document to another in the same document and some cross document links would be helpful in places too. As an example, in the FAQ document about setting/changing your password, the Answer text there has a link to the member's manual but it's just to the top of the manual not the relevant section.

A: See the Members Manual > Understanding Groups.io accounts > Setting account preferences and viewing account information.

If someone doesn't understand the '>' notation on the FAQ entry it's a further challenge for them to find the right information.

Thanks,
Andy





Re: Help Center is complete

Chris Jones
 

On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 08:10 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
The new Help Center is complete and 'live';
...and is a significant improvement over what went before. Many thanks for all the work that has been done in bringing this Help Centre to fruition.

Are these going to be Controlled Documents, meaning that any amendments don't just simply "happen" but that they are actively recorded in an Amendments Log, perhaps at the back of the documents?

I know there is the Update Group but over time trying to correlate what appears in the Manuals with changes recorded in Updates will become more or less impossible.

Chris


Re: Identity vs Profile

Chris Jones
 

On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 11:09 PM, Patti Woodbury wrote:
also the “Understanding Groups.io accounts”  be changed to “Understanding Your Groups.io Account”.
Definitely! It might seem to be a trivial change (and you might find that a lot of such apparently "trivial" requests turn up from time to time) but subtle differences in words used can make a tremendous difference to peoples' understanding of what is being said.

Chris


Identity vs Profile

 

Liking the new help center!
I was referring a new user to the help center for profile info and trying to explain “account” vs “group”. 

In the Account the left menu shows “Identity” which brings up all our account and group profiles.
In our groups, we need to go to Subscription to find our profile. 

I know to do a word search for “profile” in the Help manual and work up from that to see where it might live and how to get their. But if I am a new user and don’t know what I am looking for I wouldn’t know what keyword to search for. “Profile” and “Identity” don’t show up in the clickables which otherwise might prompt me. Plus I don’t see a search box - maybe because I’m on an iPad?

For new users, especially those who are not really computer savvy, I think the identity, profile and security information needs to be addressed earlier in the flow and also the “Understanding Groups.io accounts”  be changed to “Understanding Your Groups.io Account”.

Patti


Re: Help Center is complete

 

On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 12:41 PM West Coast Compañeros Staff <westcoastcompaneros@...> wrote:

The PDFs for both the Groups.io Members Manual and the Groups.io Owners Manual are downloaded with the filename index.pdf. I have been renaming them myself as Groups.io_Members_Manual.pdf and Groups.io_Owners_Manual.pdf to avoid confusion. I suggest that the PDFs be renamed to something similar to make it easier to distinguish them when they are downloaded.

Good idea. Done.

Thanks,
Mark 


Re: Help Center is complete

West Coast Compañeros Staff
 

On 4/8/20 12:10 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
The new Help Center is complete and 'live'; all links to the old help section now point to the new Help Center. The manuals are all complete.

Please let me know if you see any issues or have suggestions for improvements.

Thanks,
Mark

Congratulations to all those involved in this major accomplishment.

The PDFs for both the Groups.io Members Manual and the Groups.io Owners Manual are downloaded with the filename index.pdf. I have been renaming them myself as Groups.io_Members_Manual.pdf and Groups.io_Owners_Manual.pdf to avoid confusion. I suggest that the PDFs be renamed to something similar to make it easier to distinguish them when they are downloaded.

Also, for the sake of consistency, it would be helpful to use these same names as they are on their respective title pages (Groups.io Members Manual and Groups.io Owners Manual) when referring to them on the Help Center web page.

Robert R.



Help Center is complete

 

Hi All,

The new Help Center is complete and 'live'; all links to the old help section now point to the new Help Center. The manuals are all complete.

Please let me know if you see any issues or have suggestions for improvements.

Thanks,
Mark


Re: Updates

Andy Wedge
 

On Fri, Apr 3, 2020 at 04:09 PM, John Wirtz SF wrote:
But, in time, I intend to give you a structured list of request for improvements so that you can assess them in logical order.
Hi John,

please be sure to raise them on the official suggestions group called beta where you can tag them with the hashtag #suggestion

Regards,
Andy


Re: Updates

John Wirtz SF
 

Mark, 

 

Very helpful and a useful resource that hasn’t been available from other platforms.

 

I have just migrated to group.io and did find quite difficult to locate a replacement for my defunct Yahoo group.  You have a fairly unique service worldwide.

I was very pleased to find you.

 

I’ve seen several message of concern about the future of the service hand having had one aborted attempt at creating a new group with a company called “groupspaces”, I can understand the concern.

I do have some suggestions but am quite busy with communication to update my members with COVID 19 information relating t our business.

 

But, in time, I intend to give you a structured list of request for improvements so that you can assess them in logical order.

 

I look forward to communicating with you and your collaborators.

 

Best regards

 

John Wirtz
Sfssgroup@groups.io

 

 

 

 

From: docs@beta.groups.io <docs@beta.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mark Fletcher
Sent: 01 April 2020 17:36
To: docs@beta.groups.io
Subject: [docs] Updates

 

Hi All,

 

I've updated the help center. It now has the completed Owners Manual, as well as the FAQ and the very much still work in progress Members Manual.

 

Thanks,

Mark


Re: Updates

John Wirtz SF
 

Mark,

 

Thanks for all your hard work and I have just successfully started a new group which was originally on “egroups”.  Remember those? The previous group was with Yahoo and has fallen into complete dysfunctionality.

 

I have some suggestions re improvements but you might be working on such things.  Is there a site /system development plan moderators can look at to save posting messages about things you are already working on.

My requests are fairly minor but concern the management of member lists more efficiently than is currently possible.

 

Keep us posted.

 

Best regards

 

John Wirtz
sfssgroup

 

From: docs@beta.groups.io <docs@beta.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mark Fletcher
Sent: 01 April 2020 17:36
To: docs@beta.groups.io
Subject: [docs] Updates

 

Hi All,

 

I've updated the help center. It now has the completed Owners Manual, as well as the FAQ and the very much still work in progress Members Manual.

 

Thanks,

Mark


Updates

 

Hi All,

I've updated the help center. It now has the completed Owners Manual, as well as the FAQ and the very much still work in progress Members Manual.

Thanks,
Mark


Re: New help center

Marv Waschke
 

The new help center looks good. As helpful as a help center should be. Clear and straightforward. Well organized.
Notes:

Liked the glossary tool tips.

"Settings for Groups.io features" section: "Files", "Photos", and "Polls" xrefs are dead. I didn't test all the xrefs in the doc, only stumbled on these three.

"Moderating individual members" section: Perhaps mention that a member on moderation is still able to upload files without moderator intervention if, in general, members are allowed to upload files. (I think that is true-- I haven't tried it, but it was discussed recently.) I would like to know about the behavior if I were dealing with a difficult member.

Best, Marv


Re: New help center

West Coast Compañeros Staff
 

Even though some of the items are just placeholders promising content yet to come, the new Help Center represents a quantum leap forward. Up till now there have been various helpful resources available for both members and owners/moderators, but they have been scattered around, making it difficult to perform a systematic and comprehensive search. The Help Center now provides a central hub to facilitate such a focused search. Kudos for launching this, especially in such challenging times.

I suggest that you also include a link to the Group_Help home page next to the link to the Group Managers Forum in the intro. Even though that group doesn't yet enjoy as much popularity as GMF, it is still a valuable resource for issues that affect most members versus the special needs of owners & moderators.

Robert R.

On 3/24/20 1:46 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:

I've put up an alpha version of the new help center, here: https://groups.io/helpcenter

Please let me know what you think.

Thanks, Mark


Re: New help center

Nina E
 


At some point there will be a search feature.
A future search feature seems redundant.
When viewing HTML and also PDF (online) Ctrl/F give a fairly easy to use and comprehensive search facility.
Speaking with my user hat on (rather than my tech writer hat :-) ), a search feature that's available throughout the help center would (I hope) provide search results in context—similar to wiki searches in groups, maybe—which would make for a good user experience.

- Nina


Re: New help center

 

Hello,

Thanks for the suggestions for improvements of the PDF versions of the manuals. I've made the following changes to the PDF version of the Owners Manual:

- There are now page breaks before each new section.
- We do a page break if we can only fit a couple lines of a subsection at the bottom of the page (mostly, I've seen at least one instance where this isn't fixed yet).
- Table headers are now repeated if the table spans multiple pages (with the exception of any table that has a nested table, because there is a bug in the utility I use that causes overlapping text in that instance).
- There's a new header on every page with the section title.
- I've tweaked the header and footer spacing of the page.

In non-PDF manual news, I fixed a bug when viewing the manual section by section that caused some sections to not be displayed.

I have also updated the Owners manual to the latest version.

Thanks,
Mark

On Sun, Mar 29, 2020 at 9:53 AM Mark Murphy <mark@...> wrote:
This is such a useful document and I know a great deal of work has gone into it. I hesitate to ask for more, however... I have some suggestions.
 
1. Section 26.3 Bounce, bouncing
 
Consider also mentioning "system bounces" if a message cannot be delivered to a group due to a group policy or system limit. For example, sections 4.6.4 (Hashtag permissions), 4.6.13 (Storage Limit Reached), 4.8.6 (Message that contain attachments), etc.
 
2. Tables
 
Repeat table headings when a table is split over pages.
 
3. Formatting topmost outline level
 
Use outline notation with ending period at the top outline level. For example, use "2. Conventions used in this documentation" rather than "2 Conventions used in this documentation". This helps to visualize and emphasize the outline levels of the document.
 
Consider using page breaks to separate changes in top outline level.
 
4. Page headers
 
Consider adding a header to all pages which contains the current top level (single digit) heading of that page. For example, the header on Section 4 pages 13-29 would be "4. Customizing Group Settings." This helps for wayfinding and context for the reader to know where they are within the document.
 
5. Apparent links within the document to Glossary items do not work. (formatting tweaks?)
 
6. Minor cleanup
 
Replace subscriber with member in sections 4.8.2, 4.8.3, 4.9.1, etc.
 
Thank you for producing this wonderful Owners Manual!


Re: New help center

Bob Bellizzi
 

On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 01:46 PM, Mark Fletcher wrote:
At some point there will be a search feature.
A future search feature seems redundant.
When viewing HTML and also PDF (online) Ctrl/F give a fairly easy to use and comprehensive search facility.
 
--
Bob Bellizzi


Re: New help center

Mark Murphy
 

This is such a useful document and I know a great deal of work has gone into it. I hesitate to ask for more, however... I have some suggestions.
 
1. Section 26.3 Bounce, bouncing
 
Consider also mentioning "system bounces" if a message cannot be delivered to a group due to a group policy or system limit. For example, sections 4.6.4 (Hashtag permissions), 4.6.13 (Storage Limit Reached), 4.8.6 (Message that contain attachments), etc.
 
2. Tables
 
Repeat table headings when a table is split over pages.
 
3. Formatting topmost outline level
 
Use outline notation with ending period at the top outline level. For example, use "2. Conventions used in this documentation" rather than "2 Conventions used in this documentation". This helps to visualize and emphasize the outline levels of the document.
 
Consider using page breaks to separate changes in top outline level.
 
4. Page headers
 
Consider adding a header to all pages which contains the current top level (single digit) heading of that page. For example, the header on Section 4 pages 13-29 would be "4. Customizing Group Settings." This helps for wayfinding and context for the reader to know where they are within the document.
 
5. Apparent links within the document to Glossary items do not work. (formatting tweaks?)
 
6. Minor cleanup
 
Replace subscriber with member in sections 4.8.2, 4.8.3, 4.9.1, etc.
 
Thank you for producing this wonderful Owners Manual!


New help center

 

Hi All,

I've put up an alpha version of the new help center, here: https://groups.io/helpcenter

It contains a link to the most recent version of the Owners Manual (the other manuals are not yet ready for review).

  • The owner's manual is mostly complete.
  • Note that the PDF is missing the images from the manual and final formatting tweaks.
  • Also, at the end of the manual are some notes from Nina to me about remaining items; those will removed in the final version.
  • At some point there will be a search feature.
  • The lorem ipsum placeholder text will be replaced.

Please let me know what you think.

Thanks, Mark


Re: Additional Suggestions

Duane
 

I don't understand your suggestions.  I see no need for the blurb.  The questions you asked are answered elsewhere and the document is correct as is.  BTW, the answers are No and Yes.

Duane

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