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Re: Fix working in section on hashtags wrt "moderated"

J_Catlady
 

excuse the typo in the title - don't try to figure it out (it's just a typo;)

On Fri, Nov 5, 2021 at 7:47 AM J_Catlady via groups.io <j.olivia.catlady=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:

 

In the section "Creating a Hashtag," all the descriptions of hashtag attributes - with the exception of Locked, which reads "Select this checkbox to immediately lock topics that are created with this hashtag" -  all the descriptions (somewhat) incorrectly, or vaguely, refer to "messages marked with a hashtag," rather than topics marked with a hashtag. Only topics can have hashtags applied to them (the term "marked with"  is vague).

In particular, "Moderated" says "Select this checkbox if you want messages tagged with this hashtag to be moderated."

It should read "Select this checkbox if you want replies to topics tagged with this hashtag to be moderated."

Currently, this hashtag also makes the very first message of the topic go through moderation, i.e., the topic is moderated even before the first message in it exists (creating something of an existential or chronological conundrum). I have posted this as a bug in beta and await Mark's response. Apparently some people in beta think "Moderated" refers to a "moderated hashtag"; i.e., they (incorrectly) think the hashtag itself is moderated (although only topics can be moderated), and they have been exploiting this bug to restrict use of the hashtag itself. On the basis of that misusage, they've argued against my bug report. If Mark decides NOT to fix the bug (or feature, depending on your POV), the documentation should make clear that even the first message of the topic will be moderated if such a hashtag is applied to it. Otherwise, if he does fix it, the wording should be changed to refer only to replies.
Fix working in section on hashtags wrt "moderated"

J_Catlady
 

 

In the section "Creating a Hashtag," all the descriptions of hashtag attributes - with the exception of Locked, which reads "Select this checkbox to immediately lock topics that are created with this hashtag" -  all the descriptions (somewhat) incorrectly, or vaguely, refer to "messages marked with a hashtag," rather than topics marked with a hashtag. Only topics can have hashtags applied to them (the term "marked with"  is vague).

In particular, "Moderated" says "Select this checkbox if you want messages tagged with this hashtag to be moderated."

It should read "Select this checkbox if you want replies to topics tagged with this hashtag to be moderated."

Currently, this hashtag also makes the very first message of the topic go through moderation, i.e., the topic is moderated even before the first message in it exists (creating something of an existential or chronological conundrum). I have posted this as a bug in beta and await Mark's response. Apparently some people in beta think "Moderated" refers to a "moderated hashtag"; i.e., they (incorrectly) think the hashtag itself is moderated (although only topics can be moderated), and they have been exploiting this bug to restrict use of the hashtag itself. On the basis of that misusage, they've argued against my bug report. If Mark decides NOT to fix the bug (or feature, depending on your POV), the documentation should make clear that even the first message of the topic will be moderated if such a hashtag is applied to it. Otherwise, if he does fix it, the wording should be changed to refer only to replies.
Make clear that although mods can post to locked topics, their posts are moderated if the topic is *also* marked as moderated

J_Catlady
 

The section on "Locking Topics" reads:

 "Group owners and moderators are able to reply to a locked topic (by email or on the group’s website) without having to unlock the topic first and then relock it after posting their reply."

It would be helpful to add that if the topic is also marked as moderated, those replies go through moderation.
Re: Multiple active welcome messages are allowed

J_Catlady
 

Ok. Agree to disagree. :-)
Re: Multiple active welcome messages are allowed

Christos Psarras
 

I still disagree, but whatever.

Cheers,
Christos


>>> On 2021-10-10 15:44, J_Catlady via groups.io wrote:

On Sun, Oct 10, 2021 at 11:36 AM, Christos Psarras wrote:
my results point to my assertion
Yet your assertion is false. Erroneous, "over-confident," "not guaranteed to happen," whatever you want to call it. It's false.

Re: Multiple active welcome messages are allowed

J_Catlady
 

On Sun, Oct 10, 2021 at 11:36 AM, Christos Psarras wrote:
my results point to my assertion
Yet your assertion is false. Erroneous, "over-confident," "not guaranteed to happen," whatever you want to call it. It's false.
Re: Multiple active welcome messages are allowed

Christos Psarras
 

>>> I actually think it would be good to add the info about the random order, so that no one else is tempted to come to this erroneous conclusion or even wonder about the order.

The statement Nina posted in her reply was already there, I just didn't check-out that section before posting my suggestion, otherwise I wouldn't have bothered.

I did plenty of testing with a couple of different accounts and ISPs and my results point to my assertion so I wouldn't call it erroneous.  Over-confident or consistently-lucky, sure, but I get it, the mailing process happens very fast and there are plenty of middle points in between to guarantee the order.

Cheers,
Christos
Re: Multiple active welcome messages are allowed

J_Catlady
 

I actually think it would be good to add the info about the random order, so that no one else is tempted to come to this erroneous conclusion or even wonder about the order.


On Oct 10, 2021, at 8:31 AM, Christos Psarras <christos@...> wrote:



Hi Nina,

Sure, I understand, no problem whatsoever.

Cheers,
Christos


On 2021-10-10 10:34, Nina E via groups.io wrote:

Thanks, Christos. I asked Mark about the order in which multiple Welcome (or Monthly Reminder) notices are sent, and whether it’s possible to control it, and he told me what I put in the Welcome notice topic and the Monthly Reminder topic, namely, “…the system sends them all at the same time (within the same second or two). Due to the vagaries of email delivery, there is no way to guarantee the order in which multiple notices are delivered.” So I’m hesitant to include the tip you suggest because it might not happen in every case.

 

- Nina

 

From: docs@beta.groups.io <docs@beta.groups.io> On Behalf Of Christos Psarras
Sent: Saturday, October 9, 2021 1:11 PM
To: docs@beta.groups.io
Subject: Re: [docs] Multiple active welcome messages are allowed

 

Nina,

I don't know if Mark wants to include this in there as a note, but for those who have or want to use multiple welcome notices and want to control the order those are emailed out they can do so by selectively updating/saving those notices, as they are emailed oldest to newest, or same order shown onscreen if you sort on Updated ascending.

Cheers,
Christos


Re: Multiple active welcome messages are allowed

Christos Psarras
 

Hi Nina,

Sure, I understand, no problem whatsoever.

Cheers,
Christos


On 2021-10-10 10:34, Nina E via groups.io wrote:

Thanks, Christos. I asked Mark about the order in which multiple Welcome (or Monthly Reminder) notices are sent, and whether it’s possible to control it, and he told me what I put in the Welcome notice topic and the Monthly Reminder topic, namely, “…the system sends them all at the same time (within the same second or two). Due to the vagaries of email delivery, there is no way to guarantee the order in which multiple notices are delivered.” So I’m hesitant to include the tip you suggest because it might not happen in every case.

 

- Nina

 

From: docs@beta.groups.io <docs@beta.groups.io> On Behalf Of Christos Psarras
Sent: Saturday, October 9, 2021 1:11 PM
To: docs@beta.groups.io
Subject: Re: [docs] Multiple active welcome messages are allowed

 

Nina,

I don't know if Mark wants to include this in there as a note, but for those who have or want to use multiple welcome notices and want to control the order those are emailed out they can do so by selectively updating/saving those notices, as they are emailed oldest to newest, or same order shown onscreen if you sort on Updated ascending.

Cheers,
Christos


Re: Multiple active welcome messages are allowed

Nina E
 

Thanks, Christos. I asked Mark about the order in which multiple Welcome (or Monthly Reminder) notices are sent, and whether it’s possible to control it, and he told me what I put in the Welcome notice topic and the Monthly Reminder topic, namely, “…the system sends them all at the same time (within the same second or two). Due to the vagaries of email delivery, there is no way to guarantee the order in which multiple notices are delivered.” So I’m hesitant to include the tip you suggest because it might not happen in every case.

 

- Nina

 

From: docs@beta.groups.io <docs@beta.groups.io> On Behalf Of Christos Psarras
Sent: Saturday, October 9, 2021 1:11 PM
To: docs@beta.groups.io
Subject: Re: [docs] Multiple active welcome messages are allowed

 

Nina,

I don't know if Mark wants to include this in there as a note, but for those who have or want to use multiple welcome notices and want to control the order those are emailed out they can do so by selectively updating/saving those notices, as they are emailed oldest to newest, or same order shown onscreen if you sort on Updated ascending.

Cheers,
Christos

Re: Help landing page rework

Duane
 

On Sat, Oct 9, 2021 at 12:55 PM, Christos Psarras wrote:
I guess I should have spaced first, comma, then space again, as I did in the message edit.
To make it look/work right, for online (which is what I mostly do) I use: link space comma/period left-arrow backspace end continue.  Takes a few extra keys, but I think it looks better.  I wish it worked 'normal', but I'm just happy the site exists!  Maybe Mark can fix it one day in his copious spare time. ;>)

The change was made on 20 Sep 21, https://beta.groups.io/g/main/message/30348.

Duane
Re: Help landing page rework

Christos Psarras
 

On Sat, Oct 9, 2021 at 01:18 PM, J_Catlady wrote:
Or send an edit if allowed in this subgroup (I haven't checked)
Thanks for letting me know J, turns out edits are allowed.

Well, I guess Thunderbird has spoiled me as it works a bit differently on how it links text...  I composed that message online and not thinking I pasted the link text then continued with the comma and space etc, and apparently the online editor seems to use space as the flag to end the linked text and will include the comma and whatever there is before it.  I guess I should have spaced first, comma, then space again, as I did in the message edit.

Cheers,
Christos
Re: Help landing page rework

J_Catlady
 

Christos, that's a bad link. The comma got included and it says "page not found." Might want to delete and resent. Or send an edit if allowed in this subgroup (I haven't checked)
Help landing page rework

Christos Psarras
 
Edited

I just noticed the landing page was reworked, https://groups.io/helpcenter , I don't know when that was done as I use bookmarks, but kudos, it looks very neat and efficient now!

Cheers,
Christos
Re: Multiple active welcome messages are allowed

Christos Psarras
 

Nina,

I don't know if Mark wants to include this in there as a note, but for those who have or want to use multiple welcome notices and want to control the order those are emailed out they can do so by selectively updating/saving those notices, as they are emailed oldest to newest, or same order shown onscreen if you sort on Updated ascending.

Cheers,
Christos
Re: Multiple active welcome messages are allowed

J_Catlady
 

I think it was news to everyone.
Re: Multiple active welcome messages are allowed

Nina E
 

I updated the Owners Manual to mention that the Welcome notice type (and Monthly Reminder notice type, as Mark confirmed in beta) can have multiple active messages. For the record, that was news to me, too. :-) 

Thanks,
Nina


On Wed, Oct 6, 2021, 7:51 PM J_Catlady <j.olivia.catlady@...> wrote:
Per Mark in beta just now:
"You can have multiple active welcome messages. "

This was something completely unknown to me, and in fact, the documentation currently states there can be only one active notice of any type at a given time. I'm querying Mark as to whether you can have multiple actives for other notice types as well, or just for the welcome. It was sure news to me.

J

Multiple active welcome messages are allowed

J_Catlady
 

Per Mark in beta just now:
"You can have multiple active welcome messages. "

This was something completely unknown to me, and in fact, the documentation currently states there can be only one active notice of any type at a given time. I'm querying Mark as to whether you can have multiple actives for other notice types as well, or just for the welcome. It was sure news to me.

J
Re: Billing questions #suggestion

Nina E
 

The Owners Manual now contains an About Groups.io billing topic (near the end, before the Additional information topic).

- Nina
Re: Include new icon for closed polls #suggestion

Nina E
 

The Closed Poll icon is now documented in the Owners Manual and the Members Manual.

- Nina
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