Date   

Re: Getting Started Guide for Group Owners available for review

Bob Bellizzi
 

Where did you find a check mark for a Moderator to Delete a group?
As owner, I just went throught Moderators' abilities and couldn't find any such ability.
Such a privilege is only an owner's
--
Bob Bellizzi


Re: Getting Started Guide for Group Owners available for review

ro-esp
 

On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 04:48 PM, Marv Waschke wrote:

"It is a good idea to have at least one additional owner for your group as
backup in case you become unavailable or incapacitated. If you are the sole
owner of your group, the group will have difficulty continuing without you and
have to be abandoned or completely re-established under a new owner.
That would be an exaggeration. If you have a *moderator* with all the necessary privileges, a group can do fine without an owner. Appointing a second *owner* only means you can be booted out of your own group.

Iḿ thinking along the line of: if you want the group to continue, appoint at least one moderator (and don't assign the privilege of deleting the group). If you don't assign a moderator, it will be assumed that you don't want the group to go on after your demise.

I'm not sure it's possible to give a moderator the privilege of deleting the group without the other moderating tasks...

groetjes/ĝis, Ronaldo


Re: Getting Started Guide for Group Owners available for review

Marv Waschke
 

After all the discussion on succession in the GMF, I suggest adding something like the new sentence in italics below:

"It is a good idea to have at least one additional owner for your group as backup in case you become unavailable or incapacitated. If you are the sole owner of your group, the group will have difficulty continuing without you and have to be abandoned or completely re-established under a new owner. You also might want to have additional moderators, depending on your group’s size and activity level, to help you manage the group. Moderators can have different sets of permissions, so you can assign specific permissions to different people if you want them to handle only certain moderation activities."

Best, Marv


Re: Getting Started Guide for Group Owners available for review

Duane
 

A couple of additional suggestions:

Introduction

Amend bullet 2
"or restricted group, or other combinations of settings."

bullet 7
change to "Approve or reject messages..."

Duane


Re: Getting Started Guide for Group Owners available for review

Bruce Bowman
 

Nina -- There should be an entry for establishing Default Sub Settings. If nothing else, the time zone setting here must be correct before people are invited/added to the group.

Setting this is critical for groups where everyone is located in the same place and the calendar is in use. Many situations have arisen where this was not done and subscribers had difficulty managing their calendars (receiving "late" reminders and so on) because their accounts ended up on Pacific time while the group itself was on something else. 

Regards,
Bruce


Getting Started Guide for Group Owners available for review

Nina E
 

Hi, everyone. At Mark’s request, I’ve put together a getting started guide for group owners. If anyone in this group is interested and available to take a look before it’s released to the general public, I’d welcome comments. (Know that it is considerably smaller than the Group Owners Manual. :-) ) You can access HTML and PDF versions through this link: https://groups.io/helpcenter/gettingstarted

 

We plan to make the guide available to everyone at the end of next week.

 

Thank you in advance for any feedback!

 

Regards,

Nina


Re: Owners' Manual Suggestion - Export Photos

Nina E
 

On Sat, Jul 11, 2020 at 04:12 PM, Andy Wedge wrote:

following on from a discussion on beta (message #25692 onwards) it seems the export of photos from group data does not include the 'Emailed Photos' album.  Given that the Emailed Photos album is accessed from the Photos area, it may seem logical that when exporting photos, the Emailed Photos album is included. A clarification/confirmation that the Emailed Photos album is not included in the photos export may be helpful.
I added a note to that effect to the Exporting your group's message archive and other group content topic in the July 17 release of the Owners Manual.

Thank you for the feedback!

- Nina


mrklnhoc.xtp

firmen2rmk@...
 

Hello!
The Märklin H0 c-track system has a view "new" elements. I have tried to construct these elements, the small curved turnout, left and right, and the curved track 15°, R3=515mm (24771, 24772, 27315). Probably its useful for anyone else. Feel free to use.

TURNOUT HO "Märklin C-Gleis    Bogenweiche links R3=515mm 30°    24771"
    U "Gebogen Turnout" "XtrkCad" "Märklin C-Gleis" "Bogenweiche links 30°" "24771" 7.086614 30.000000 1.898853 30.000000 1.898853 10.137795
    P "Normal" 1 4 5 6
    P "Reverse" 1 2 3
    E 0.000000 0.000000 270.000000
    E 12.669291 2.716414 60.000000
    E 10.137795 2.716414 60.000000
    S 0 0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 0.648631 0.000000
    C 0 0.000000 -17.854867 0.648631 17.854867 150.000000 30.000000
    S 0 0.000000 9.576064 2.392099 10.137795 2.716414
    S 0 0.000000 0.648631 0.000000 3.741858 0.000000
    C 0 0.000000 -16.407871 3.651858 16.407871 150.000000 30.000000
    S 0 0.000000 11.821525 2.199470 12.669291 2.716414
    L 8421376 0.030000 0.000000 -0.787402 2.677165 -0.787402
    A 8421376 0.030000 -19.488189 0.000000 20.275591 150.000000 30.000000
    L 8421376 0.030000 10.548543 1.987241 12.258543 3.385587
    A 8421376 0.030000 -20.372118 2.687165 19.584716 149.300000 30.700000
    END
TURNOUT HO "Märklin C-Gleis    Bogenweiche rechts R3=515mm 30°    24772"
    U "Gebogen Turnout" "XtrkCad" "Märklin C-Gleis" "Bogenweiche rechts 30°" "24772" 7.086614 30.000000 1.898853 30.000000 1.898853 10.137795
    P "Normal" 1 4 5 6
    P "Reverse" 1 2 3
    E 0.000000 0.000000 270.000000                                                        
    E 12.669291 -2.716414 120.000000
    E 10.137795 -2.716414 120.000000
    S 0 0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 0.648631 0.000000
    C 0 0.000000 17.854867 0.648631 -17.854867 0.000000 30.000000
    S 0 0.000000 9.576064 -2.392099 10.137795 -2.716414
    S 0 0.000000 0.648631 0.000000 3.741858 0.000000
    C 0 0.000000 16.407871 3.651858 -16.407871 0.000000 30.000000
    S 0 0.000000 11.821525 -2.199470 12.669291 -2.716414
    L 8421376 0.030000 0.000000 0.787402 2.902165 0.787402
    A 8421376 0.030000 -19.488189 0.000000 -20.275591 0.000000 30.000000
    L 8421376 0.030000 10.548543 -1.987241 12.258543 -3.385587
    A 8421376 0.030000 -20.372118 2.687165 -19.584716 0.700000 30.700000
    END
TURNOUT HO "Märklin C-Gleis    Gebogen R3=515mm 15°    24315"
    U "Gebogener Abschnitt" "XtrkCad" "Märklin C-Gleis" "Gebogen R3=515mm 15°" "24315" 20.275591 15.000000
    P "Normal" 1
    E 0.000000 0.000000 270.000000
    E 5.247709 0.690874 75.000000
    C 0 0.000000 -20.275591 0.000000 20.275591 165.000000 15.000000
    A 8421376 0.030000 -19.488191 0.000000 20.275591 165.000000 15.000000
    A 8421376 0.030000 -21.062991 0.000000 20.275591 165.000000 15.000000
    END


Owners' Manual Suggestion - Export Photos

Andy Wedge
 

Hi,

following on from a discussion on beta (message #25692 onwards) it seems the export of photos from group data does not include the 'Emailed Photos' album.  Given that the Emailed Photos album is accessed from the Photos area, it may seem logical that when exporting photos, the Emailed Photos album is included. A clarification/confirmation that the Emailed Photos album is not included in the photos export may be helpful.

Thanks
Andy


Re: Owners Manual suggestions - June 5, 2020

Nina E
 

I incorporated these suggestions in the July 10 release of the Owners Manual. Thank you for the feedback!

 

- Nina_._,_._,_


Owners Manual suggestions - June 5, 2020

Duane
 

PDF references

1
fifth bullet should say
"Approve or reject messages from moderated members..."

4.3.3
Tip
Change to "...use appropriate keywords in the group title or the group description so..."

8.1
Note: needs clarification that members may apply/join using the site or email

8.2
item 4 Note: add "...  RTF files will not work."

9.6.3
item 3, second bullet should be "... and upload a plain text file ..."

11.1.1
Note: second bullet should be "...the message is deleted if not claimed by a moderator or owner."

13.4.3
step 2 should be "...click the Edit Tag button"

13.4.4
step 2 should be "...click the Edit Tag button"

18
should say "...ensure that your group’s title or description...

21
Add to Note:  "If you may want to use the group name again, or make it available for others to use, rename it to some nonsense name before deleting it."

24.3
Header and footer graphics
bullet 2 should be "For a header, have dimensions of 800 pixels wide x 93 pixels high"
bullet 3 should be "For a footer, have dimensions of 800 pixels wide x 86 pixels high"

Thanks,
Duane


Re: Terminology for the Notifications Overhaul

 

Mark M.,


  • "Web Push" rather than "web/app" (aka "push"). This is the (relatively) standard term used for this type of notice which is different from the old-style web or app notification which required your app and/or browser to be active.

I've retained "web/app" as it is inclusive of both web push notification and mobile app notification methods. I've cleaned up the description a bit to clarify that browser-based notifications are using web push technology.

  • "Notice" rather than "Notification". Short is almost always better.

I've retained Notification as referring to a notice given by a specific method. For example, a Group Notice delivered by email, versus a Group Notice delivered by web/app notification.

  • Web Push Notices are "sent" rather than "delivered" or "pushed" since neither email nor "push" guarantee delivery or receipt

That's a bit pedantic. However where describing the action of Groups.io I've added "sent" for clarity. This fits with the fact that actual delivery depends on the user's system and software, and the user's own choice of settings.

  • Deprecate words such as "instant", "immediately", etc.

Done

  • Consider a structure for the Wiki page like:
    • Notice Audiences (targets/recipients?)
      • Group notices 
      • Member Notices
      • Moderator Notices
    • Notice Sending Methods
      • Email
      • Web Push
    • Notice Controls and Settings
      • Web Push Notice Controls. Include some examples or references for configuring.
      • Group Notice Controls
      • Member Notice Controls

I'll think about the structure, particularly as the page grows to accommodate additional developments.

For now I'm comfortable with having an Introductory section that establishes the terminology, followed by main sections for what the group can control and for what the member can control. Plus the odd-man-out of controls on the user's device rather than within the Groups.io interface.

I think "Group Controls" directly addresses what group owners/mods (GMF's primary audience) are most concerned with: how do we control this beast. I don't want to make them read across a bunch of major sections to glean what they need to know.

Shal


Re: Terminology for the Notifications Overhaul

Mark Murphy
 

Thank you Shal, and everyone who has contributed to documenting and helping make these changes more usable and understandable.

Although I've read through all of the discussion, there a lot of changes and suggestions. May I suggest for your consideration:

  • "Web Push" rather than "web/app" (aka "push"). This is the (relatively) standard term used for this type of notice which is different from the old-style web or app notification which required your app and/or browser to be active.
  • "Notice" rather than "Notification". Short is almost always better.
  • Web Push Notices are "sent" rather than "delivered" or "pushed" since neither email nor "push" guarantee delivery or receipt
  • Deprecate words such as "instant", "immediately", etc.
  • Consider a structure for the Wiki page like:
    • Notice Audiences (targets/recipients?)
      • Group notices 
      • Member Notices
      • Moderator Notices
    • Notice Sending Methods
      • Email
      • Web Push
    • Notice Controls and Settings
      • Web Push Notice Controls. Include some examples or references for configuring.
      • Group Notice Controls
      • Member Notice Controls
Thank you.
 


Re: Terminology for the Notifications Overhaul

 

Nina,

That sounds reasonable. Maybe we can also propose to Mark that he
change the label of the Member Notices tab (under Admin > Settings) to
just Notices, which would cover both.
Perhaps. I'm not sure that's needed though, the two exceptions don't feel like such a big deal.

I've updated the wiki page to describe the those Member Notices along with the new ones. It only took one short paragraph in the Group Controls section. It seems pretty clean, I like how it reads. We'll see if the GMF membership has any reaction to it.

Shal


Re: Terminology for the Notifications Overhaul

Nina E
 

Thanks for the additional thoughts so far.

Shal >> We could, for example, enhance the description of Guidelines and Monthly, in the group Settings, to say that they are exceptions - that they are in fact Group Notices. They are already exceptional in having a scheduled send rather than being tied to an action.
In a similar vein, it might make sense to describe the rest of them also under Member Notices. They would be distinct in that they already exist, and in that by nature they don't allow for user control. <<

That sounds reasonable. Maybe we can also propose to Mark that he change the label of the Member Notices tab (under Admin > Settings) to just Notices, which would cover both. (A label of "Member and Group Notices" would be clear but unwieldy. :-) )

Shal >> So that's what I went with: Web/App, Group, and Email Notification: describing the method used in the act of delivery. Then Moderator, Member, and Group Notices: describing the target of the notice. <<

Makes sense.

Shal >> But I think we still need the distinction I made between the targets of the content; and we also need the distinction I made between the methods of delivery. <<

Agreed.

Shal >> I eventually backed away from the term "push", relegating it to "aka" status. I might go further and leave only the first of those references. My reason is that I didn't find it being used in browser or OS documentation, but I'll admit I only looked at the ones I use. <<

Firefox has help content about "Web Push notifications" but also uses just "notifications" in the popup that asks whether you want to allow notifications from a website. Other browsers I looked at (Edge on Windows and Chrome on Android) seem to use just "notifications." So I'll use the "aka push" approach in the Groups.io documentation.

Robert, Chris >> Would the term "Alert" be useful as an alternative to "Notification" in many cases? <<

I do like the brevity of "Alert," but "Notification" might be more familiar to people because it's the term that browsers/websites/apps (the ones I've looked at, at least) generally seem to use for this type of feature.

- Nina


Re: Terminology for the Notifications Overhaul

Chris Jones
 

On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 04:59 PM, West Coast Compañeros Staff wrote:
Would the term "Alert" be useful as an alternative to "Notification" in many cases? It may be a tad over-dramatic, but it has the benefit of brevity.
Yes. :)

Chris


Re: Terminology for the Notifications Overhaul

West Coast Compañeros Staff
 

On 6/29/20 10:57 PM, Shal Farley wrote:
Nina,

> ... I'm a little concerned that "Notice" (especially "Member Notice")
> could be confused with references to the member notices that
> owners/moderators set up in their groups' settings.

Hmm... I hadn't thought of that.

Would the term "Alert" be useful as an alternative to "Notification" in many cases? It may be a tad over-dramatic, but it has the benefit of brevity. I would reserve "Notice" for those that appear n the Notice Type drop-down list under Member Notices in the Settings section.

Robert R.



--
MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Mid 2015)
macOS Mojave version 10.4.6
Firefox Version 75.0 / Google Chrome Version 81.0


iPhone XR 64 GB
iOS 13.4


Re: Terminology for the Notifications Overhaul

 

Nina,

... I'm a little concerned that "Notice" (especially "Member Notice")
could be confused with references to the member notices that
owners/moderators set up in their groups' settings.
Hmm... I hadn't thought of that.

I'd like to say that they really are the same, as both are sent direct to the member. But that's not true of Guidelines and Monthly, which are Group Notices in my parlance (and in implementation, given their hashtags).

Also, the new ones are expected to be controlled by the member via their Subscription page; not so the ones defined in the group's Settings.

Nevertheless, I think I'd rather seek a way to work with this slight overlap in terminology than try to find some terminology that is non-overlapping but less clear for each application.

We could, for example, enhance the description of Guidelines and Monthly, in the group Settings, to say that they are exceptions - that they are in fact Group Notices. They are already exceptional in having a scheduled send rather than being tied to an action.

In a similar vein, it might make sense to describe the rest of them also under Member Notices. They would be distinct in that they already exist, and in that by nature they don't allow for user control.

Perhaps using "Notification" here, rather than "Notice," would help
alleviate potential confusion.
I started off that way, but Notification is just so much baggage to carry around. It didn't seem right to me, and looking at my dictionary (yes, the dead trees kind) clarified why. As nouns, "notice" is the message, "notification" is the act of delivering it.

So that's what I went with: Web/App, Group, and Email Notification: describing the method used in the act of delivery. Then Moderator, Member, and Group Notices: describing the target of the notice.

As a further distinction, throughout the wiki and the Help Center
documentation, maybe we can try to use "notification" to refer to the
alert message that is sent by email or web/app push and "notice" to
refer to the message content (the details of what someone is being
notified about).
I do like staying consistent with standard English usage.

But I think we still need the distinction I made between the targets of the content; and we also need the distinction I made between the methods of delivery. It is the only way I can think of to make a sensibly organized description.

(I already intended to add "push notification.")
I eventually backed away from the term "push", relegating it to "aka" status. I might go further and leave only the first of those references. My reason is that I didn't find it being used in browser or OS documentation, but I'll admit I only looked at the ones I use.

Shal


Re: Terminology for the Notifications Overhaul

Nina E
 

Hi, Shal. Thank you very much for putting together the GMF wiki page about notifications! (And thanks also to others who've contributed revisions to it.) With Mark's agreement, I've been holding off on updating the Help Center resources until the dust settles. (If I'd started sooner, it would've been like changing tires on a moving car. :-) ) I plan to start on the Help Center updates this week, and the wiki page will be a huge help.

 

In general, the info on the wiki page looks pretty good to me as far as I currently understand notifications. Regarding the terms "Group Notice," "Member Notice," and "Moderator Notice": I agree with the categorizations, but I'm a little concerned that "Notice" (especially "Member Notice") could be confused with references to the member notices that owners/moderators set up in their groups' settings. Perhaps using "Notification" here, rather than "Notice," would help alleviate potential confusion.

 

As a further distinction, throughout the wiki and the Help Center documentation, maybe we can try to use "notification" to refer to the alert message that is sent by email or web/app push and "notice" to refer to the message content (the details of what someone is being notified about). I could add those terms to the glossary. (I already intended to add "push notification.")

 

Thoughts?

 

- Nina


Re: Terminology for the Notifications Overhaul

 

Andy,

The Notifications page looks good. I don't see a reference to
#cal-cancelled ...
Thanks for the heads up.

I only use basic calendar features, and I haven't paid much attention to some of the enhanced features. Maybe someone familiar with them will contribute to the page.

and in beta, Bruce asked a question about #email and #feed which I
can't recall seeing a response to.
Interesting question of Bruce's. I could see that going either way: treat them as normal topic hashtags, or treat them as Group Notices.

I was thinking that all Group Notices have a corresponding Moderator Notice, but that's not true of the calendar notices. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Shal